[Peter Lemken]

Oldtimers among you may have heard of the following video recorders:

EV-S650PS
EV-S850PS

They were the first consumer products that offered a chance of digital audio
recordings. They used Video8-cassettes and you could record 6 parallel
stereo audio tracks on one cassette.

I have no idea what kind of digitizing was used, but it was pretty good and
having bought one of the earlier models in the late 80s I have 6 tapes full
of self-recorded material from broadcasts and self-taped classical piano
recitals.

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the analogue
workaround?


Peter Lemken
0711

--
Nature abhors crude hacks.

[DC]

Peter Lemken wrote:

Oldtimers among you may have heard of the following video recorders:

EV-S650PS
EV-S850PS

They were the first consumer products that offered a chance of digital audio
recordings. They used Video8-cassettes and you could record 6 parallel
stereo audio tracks on one cassette.

I have no idea what kind of digitizing was used, but it was pretty good and
having bought one of the earlier models in the late 80s I have 6 tapes full
of self-recorded material from broadcasts and self-taped classical piano
recitals.

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the analogue
workaround?

I bought a replacement machine on eBay. But what is lacks the pair of
PCM audio tracks. It is stereo, however, which was hard enough to find.

[DC]

DC wrote:

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the
analogue
workaround?

I bought a replacement machine on eBay. But what is lacks the pair of
PCM audio tracks. It is stereo, however, which was hard enough to find.


Also, Sony still makes a portable deck called the GV-D200.

[cedricl]

On Mar 21, 5:13*pm, (Peter Lemken) wrote:
Oldtimers among you may have heard of the following video recorders:

EV-S650PS
EV-S850PS

They were the first consumer products that offered a chance of digital audio
recordings. They used Video8-cassettes and you could record 6 parallel
stereo audio tracks on one cassette.

I have no idea what kind of digitizing was used, but it was pretty good and
having bought one of the earlier models in the late 80s I have 6 tapes full
of self-recorded material from broadcasts and self-taped classical piano
recitals.

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the analogue
workaround?

Peter Lemken
0711

--
Nature abhors crude hacks.

Try to find one of the old machines in working order. Buy or borrow an
audio interface that has the proper number of inputs and spend a
weekend (or two) transferring. Have you checked eBay or Craig's list?

[AJ]

In article 024eb361-0f4f-48a7-b932-3de2c45978c8
@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com, says...
On Mar 21, 5:13=A0pm, (Peter Lemken) wrote:
Oldtimers among you may have heard of the following video recorders:

EV-S650PS
EV-S850PS

They were the first consumer products that offered a chance of digital aud=
io
recordings. They used Video8-cassettes and you could record 6 parallel
stereo audio tracks on one cassette.

I have no idea what kind of digitizing was used, but it was pretty good an=
d
having bought one of the earlier models in the late 80s I have 6 tapes ful=
l
of self-recorded material from broadcasts and self-taped classical piano
recitals.

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the analogu=
e
workaround?

Peter Lemken
0711

--
Nature abhors crude hacks.

Try to find one of the old machines in working order. Buy or borrow an
audio interface that has the proper number of inputs and spend a
weekend (or two) transferring. Have you checked eBay or Craig's list?


There was a retired ex-tech on EBay who was rebuilding 8mm VCR's and I
believe he may be the source for many that are for sale on EBay. I think
he recently moved from California to Florida or the Carolina's. Some of
these units were plagued with a bad batch of Elna electrolytic filter
caps.

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Lemken wrote:
Oldtimers among you may have heard of the following video recorders:

EV-S650PS
EV-S850PS

They were the first consumer products that offered a chance of digital audio
recordings. They used Video8-cassettes and you could record 6 parallel
stereo audio tracks on one cassette.

I have no idea what kind of digitizing was used, but it was pretty good and
having bought one of the earlier models in the late 80s I have 6 tapes full
of self-recorded material from broadcasts and self-taped classical piano
recitals.

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the analogue
workaround?

Okay, of the six tracks:

1. Two of them aren't digital, but are the analogue "low-fi" tracks
on the edge of the tape.

2. The next two aren't digital either, but are the analogue FM "hi-fi"
tracks encoded as a subcarrier on the video carrier.

3. The last two tracks ARE digital, and are recorded with an ADC which
resamples the data and clocks it up with video synch signal so it can
be recorded as video. This is called "Sony PCM F-1" format, from the
first device that used it.

It is actually possible to take the video carrier and decode it digitally,
using the Sony PCM-610 decoder, which has an S-PDIF output. Note that the
sampling rate is 44.056 ksamp/sec and not all S-PDIF interfaces will really
accept it. Also note that the original recording used a single converter
for both channels, so when played back through modern converters the left
channel is delayed by half a sample. I don't think this is a significant
issue, but if you're watching on a scope and see something weird, don't panic.

I would have no idea where to get such a decoder today. Steve Puntolillo
might have one for rent.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Lemken]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Peter Lemken wrote:
Oldtimers among you may have heard of the following video recorders:

EV-S650PS
EV-S850PS

They were the first consumer products that offered a chance of digital audio
recordings. They used Video8-cassettes and you could record 6 parallel
stereo audio tracks on one cassette.

I have no idea what kind of digitizing was used, but it was pretty good and
having bought one of the earlier models in the late 80s I have 6 tapes full
of self-recorded material from broadcasts and self-taped classical piano
recitals.

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the analogue
workaround?

Okay, of the six tracks:

1. Two of them aren't digital, but are the analogue "low-fi" tracks
on the edge of the tape.

2. The next two aren't digital either, but are the analogue FM "hi-fi"
tracks encoded as a subcarrier on the video carrier.

3. The last two tracks ARE digital, and are recorded with an ADC which
resamples the data and clocks it up with video synch signal so it can
be recorded as video. This is called "Sony PCM F-1" format, from the
first device that used it.

Don't be angry, but I seriously doubt the accuracy of your information with
regard to the 6 tracks being in a different format from track to track. When
my 650 came to its end of life after some 6 years of hefty use, the tracks I
recorded on the last tape I had were distorted and to these ears they were
clearly digitally distorted.

I believe that you are referring to the audio tracks when the recorder is in
video mode. There is, however, a dedicated PCM-mode for audio only on 6
tracks and all of these 6 tracks are identical in terms of responsiveness
when switching from one channel to the other, which couldn't happen, if
these were different formats.

It is actually possible to take the video carrier and decode it digitally,
using the Sony PCM-610 decoder, which has an S-PDIF output. Note that the
sampling rate is 44.056 ksamp/sec and not all S-PDIF interfaces will really
accept it. Also note that the original recording used a single converter
for both channels, so when played back through modern converters the left
channel is delayed by half a sample. I don't think this is a significant
issue, but if you're watching on a scope and see something weird, don't panic.

I would have no idea where to get such a decoder today. Steve Puntolillo
might have one for rent.

I wonder where you have this information from, since what I read the
sampling rate was 22 kHz, but maybe this refers to LongPlay mode only.

I still have an 850 in perfect working order, but given the time since
purchase, I really want to make transfers as good as possible in quality
since I transferred many invaluable live recordings from analog tape from my
WM3 at that time. I still got some hitherto unpblished Horowitz,
Michelangeli and Richter on one of these tapes and the original analog
masters are lost.


Peter Lemken
0711

--
Nature abhors crude hacks.

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Lemken wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Peter Lemken wrote:
Oldtimers among you may have heard of the following video recorders:

EV-S650PS
EV-S850PS

They were the first consumer products that offered a chance of digital audio
recordings. They used Video8-cassettes and you could record 6 parallel
stereo audio tracks on one cassette.

I have no idea what kind of digitizing was used, but it was pretty good and
having bought one of the earlier models in the late 80s I have 6 tapes full
of self-recorded material from broadcasts and self-taped classical piano
recitals.

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the analogue
workaround?

Okay, of the six tracks:

1. Two of them aren't digital, but are the analogue "low-fi" tracks
on the edge of the tape.

2. The next two aren't digital either, but are the analogue FM "hi-fi"
tracks encoded as a subcarrier on the video carrier.

3. The last two tracks ARE digital, and are recorded with an ADC which
resamples the data and clocks it up with video synch signal so it can
be recorded as video. This is called "Sony PCM F-1" format, from the
first device that used it.

Don't be angry, but I seriously doubt the accuracy of your information with
regard to the 6 tracks being in a different format from track to track. When
my 650 came to its end of life after some 6 years of hefty use, the tracks I
recorded on the last tape I had were distorted and to these ears they were
clearly digitally distorted.

I am sure some of them were.

And it's true that it's been 20 years since I used one of these horrible
machines.

I believe that you are referring to the audio tracks when the recorder is in
video mode. There is, however, a dedicated PCM-mode for audio only on 6
tracks and all of these 6 tracks are identical in terms of responsiveness
when switching from one channel to the other, which couldn't happen, if
these were different formats.

I believe the dedicated PCM mode only replaces the video carrier with
2-channel PCM data, a la PCM F-1. This was basically an 8mm video
machine with a PCM F-1 built into it.

You can verify this by playing back one of the tapes using a PCM F-1
machine. It should decode.

It is actually possible to take the video carrier and decode it digitally,
using the Sony PCM-610 decoder, which has an S-PDIF output. Note that the
sampling rate is 44.056 ksamp/sec and not all S-PDIF interfaces will really
accept it. Also note that the original recording used a single converter
for both channels, so when played back through modern converters the left
channel is delayed by half a sample. I don't think this is a significant
issue, but if you're watching on a scope and see something weird, don't panic.

I would have no idea where to get such a decoder today. Steve Puntolillo
might have one for rent.

This is a typo for the PCM-601.

I wonder where you have this information from, since what I read the
sampling rate was 22 kHz, but maybe this refers to LongPlay mode only.

Dunno, with standard PCM-F1, the Nyquist limit is 22 KHz, and the filters
are set there, but the sampling rate is of course twice that.

Apogee got started making replacement filters for these things because
the original filters in them were so bad. Which of course is why you
want the PCM-601 rather than the PCM F-1 or any of those boxes.

I still have an 850 in perfect working order, but given the time since
purchase, I really want to make transfers as good as possible in quality
since I transferred many invaluable live recordings from analog tape from my
WM3 at that time. I still got some hitherto unpblished Horowitz,
Michelangeli and Richter on one of these tapes and the original analog
masters are lost.

I suggest you talk to Steve Puntolillo who is the odd format expert.

I also suggest you play one of these tapes with a standard 8MM video
machine. You should hear two hi-fi signals, two analogue linear signals,
and see lots of square blocks on the TV screen, which is the encoded PCM
data.

If you can do this, a PCM-601 will allow you to take the encoded PCM data
and turn it into S-PDIF which you can run into a soundcard.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[cedricl]

On Mar 21, 5:13*pm, (Peter Lemken) wrote:
Oldtimers among you may have heard of the following video recorders:

EV-S650PS
EV-S850PS

They were the first consumer products that offered a chance of digital audio
recordings. They used Video8-cassettes and you could record 6 parallel
stereo audio tracks on one cassette.

I have no idea what kind of digitizing was used, but it was pretty good and
having bought one of the earlier models in the late 80s I have 6 tapes full
of self-recorded material from broadcasts and self-taped classical piano
recitals.

Does any of you experts know whether there is any chance of getting these
120+ hours of music transferred digitally or do I have to take the analogue
workaround?

Peter Lemken
0711

--
Nature abhors crude hacks.

Call these guys http://www.broadcaststore.com/rfi.cfm?intModelID=8925

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I also suggest you play one of these tapes with a standard 8MM video
machine. You should hear two hi-fi signals, two analogue linear signals...

Video8 and Hi8 never had any analog linear audio of the kind used in
most other home video formats.

The basic audio track of Video8 was an FM subcarrier recorded using the
rotating video heads and along the same helical tape-path as that of the
video signal, much like what they called HiFi audio with VHS. Then,
certain models of Video8 or Hi8 VCRs and camcorders had PCM audio with a
sampling rate of 31.5 kHz, again recorded with the video heads but as a
short data packet in the vertical blanking interval of each video line.

This also explains why non-PCM Video8 recorders had no audio overdub
feature.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

[Peter Lemken]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I believe the dedicated PCM mode only replaces the video carrier with
2-channel PCM data, a la PCM F-1. This was basically an 8mm video
machine with a PCM F-1 built into it.

You can verify this by playing back one of the tapes using a PCM F-1
machine. It should decode.

Take a look at the patent covering this Multi-PCM technology and it becomes
clear:

http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

Peter Lemken
0711

--
Nature abhors crude hacks.