[Mike]

I know all the cool kids have flash recorders now, but I've been more
than happy with my Sony DTC-2000ES DAT. Until this week, when a bunch
of clicks/pops marred my recording. How can I best diagnose this?

The details: Crown SASS-P with Crown phantom power supply, 1/4-inch to
XLR converter cables, cheap 60m data grade tape as I can't find legit
audio DATs any more. The recording was transferred to PC using the
deck's digital out with an M-Audio Transit USB; the clicks also appear
on the deck's analog outputs, in exactly the same patterns each time
the tape is replayed.

If any experienced DAT owners could take a listen to the noise (3.5
meg file) to see if it sounds familiar, I would sure appreciate it.

http://www.mit.edu/~mike/2008-Sony2000ES-clicks.wav

The clicks appear in the early part of the excerpt, but then disappear.

Why did I get this noise? A bad tape? Do I need to use a cleaning
tape? Is the deck (gulp?) on the fritz?

I will try again with a different tape and having used a cleaning
tape, but over 95% of the tape had no problem, so I wouldn't know how
to be sure the problem was gone.

Thanks very much for any insights.



Mike

--
Mike ---

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Mike wrote:

I know all the cool kids have flash recorders now, but I've been more
than happy with my Sony DTC-2000ES DAT. Until this week, when a bunch
of clicks/pops marred my recording. How can I best diagnose this?

Hmmm ....

The details: Crown SASS-P with Crown phantom power supply, 1/4-inch to
XLR converter cables, cheap 60m data grade tape as I can't find legit
audio DATs any more.

Data grade tapes used to be certified, ie. physically verified while audio
grade tapes were not. One of my reasons for getting a harddisk recorder was
the increased occurence of loose debris from brand new tapes clogging a head
on the dat.

The recording was transferred to PC using the
deck's digital out with an M-Audio Transit USB; the clicks also appear
on the deck's analog outputs, in exactly the same patterns each time
the tape is replayed.

It may then be recorded on the tape or a tape error or something that
happens in playback, but it should then not be exactly repeatable.

If any experienced DAT owners could take a listen to the noise (3.5
meg file) to see if it sounds familiar, I would sure appreciate it.

http://www.mit.edu/~mike/2008-Sony2000ES-clicks.wav

The clicks appear in the early part of the excerpt, but then
disappear.

See http://www.muyiovatki.dk/click.png for an image of one. It looks very
different from the oddities I have seen, those have been single samples
totally out of line. Your first recourse is to try playing the tape on a
different deck, if avaiable. Clickfixing with a quality declicker - I tried
Audition, but there are others - can fix the clicks if unbearable. They are
not really really bad, so if it is not for release or demo use my suggestion
is to live with them.

Why did I get this noise? A bad tape? Do I need to use a cleaning
tape? Is the deck (gulp?) on the fritz?

The two good Sony DAT's (77 and 2000) are amazing wonders of reliability and
autocleaning. But that does not mean that getting the deck cleaned might not
be a good idea. It is not all that difficult, but it is a skilled task.

I will try again with a different tape and having used a cleaning
tape, but over 95% of the tape had no problem, so I wouldn't know how
to be sure the problem was gone.

The 2000 has the property of always wanting to rewind a cleaning tape after
discovering that there is no audio on it. That is very bad because the usual
recipe for cleaning tape use is to NOT rewind. Otoh they don't seem to ever
really _need_ cleaning. It is my asumption that the actual mechanism is the
one also used in computer DAT drives.

There are some oddities to be aware of with computer grade tapes: they are a
bit smoother and come in thin and very thin and even thinner and then way to
thin versions. You DAT expects a 2 hour tape at most, and the shortest
computer tapes I could find ended up at 3 hours. Do not do a lot of
shuttling, and preferable wind and rewind, oh ... the Sony logic is that you
are not supposed to want to wind unformatted tape and then start the DAT and
record without stopping.

Thanks very much for any insights.

My guess is mechanical damage to the tape. A good property of the SV3800 is
that it has extremely good error correction and might be able to get you are
better playback if it is really critical. The small Sony portable DAT
recorders use a half diameter drum and may be able to play tapes that no
other DAT can play.

It is a great DAT you have, but the technology is fading. Transfer your
recordings while it is up and running and start researching what recorder to
get next.

Mike

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message

But that does not mean that getting the deck cleaned might not
be a good idea. It is not all that difficult, but it is a skilled task.


This or a tape quality / condition issue... probably the above.

DM




--
David Morgan (MAMS)
Morgan Audio Media Service
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_____________________________
http://www.januarysound.com

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 15, 11:23 pm, Mike wrote:

The recording was transferred to PC using the
deck's digital out with an M-Audio Transit USB; the clicks also appear
on the deck's analog outputs, in exactly the same patterns each time
the tape is replayed.

Sounds to me like like your recorder needs either maintenance or
different tape or both. It's probably beyond help from a cleaning tape
and needs to be opened up and cleaned with the appropriate (not cotton
Q-Tips) swabs and a liquid solvent. It may also need adjustment to get
things running back in sync. Maybe even new drive betls and rollers.

The thing about a digital recorder is that, unlike an analog recorder
which shows degradation as it gets dirty or jerky, the digital process
conceals the errors until it can do no more, and then you get a
momentary data loss - which you hear as a click. So it can be working
fine one day and the next little speck of dirt will push it over the
edge and into real data loss.

The way to diagnose it is to first try playing other recordings to see
if they do the same thing. They may, even if your recorder is in good
shape, because tape deteriorates, too. But if you can play another
tape without clicks, then the problem was created when you made the
recording.

Data tape is sometimes a problem with audio DAT recorders. As Peter
pointed out, it's thinner than what the audio recorder was designed to
use, and that means that the tension, which is quite critical for a
solid recording, will be wrong unless the recorder can adjust itself.
The tape cassette has a pattern of holes that can be read by a deck,
telling it what kind of tape is in the machine. A data recorder will
detect the type of tape and the length and will set itself
accordingly.

Not all audio DAT decks read this code, however, so your thin tape may
have been run with standard audio tape settings. I used to know a
little about which DAT recorders could accommodate data tapes and
which ones don't but I've forgotten that. If you can only find data
tape now and can find someone who still works on DATs, you could have
it adjusted to work with the tape you can get.

It may just be time to bite the bullet and retire it, not because it
no longer works right, but because the market for other recorers have
made it obsolete.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Peter Larsen wrote:

Thanks very much for any insights.

My guess is mechanical damage to the tape.

I have wondered whether it could be cellphone noise after all, but it
doesn't sound like gsm quircks sound in our cellphone system.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Gareth Magennis]

"Mike" wrote in message
...
I know all the cool kids have flash recorders now, but I've been more
than happy with my Sony DTC-2000ES DAT. Until this week, when a bunch
of clicks/pops marred my recording. How can I best diagnose this?

The details: Crown SASS-P with Crown phantom power supply, 1/4-inch to
XLR converter cables, cheap 60m data grade tape as I can't find legit
audio DATs any more. The recording was transferred to PC using the
deck's digital out with an M-Audio Transit USB; the clicks also appear
on the deck's analog outputs, in exactly the same patterns each time
the tape is replayed.

If any experienced DAT owners could take a listen to the noise (3.5
meg file) to see if it sounds familiar, I would sure appreciate it.

http://www.mit.edu/~mike/2008-Sony2000ES-clicks.wav

The clicks appear in the early part of the excerpt, but then disappear.

Why did I get this noise? A bad tape? Do I need to use a cleaning
tape? Is the deck (gulp?) on the fritz?

I will try again with a different tape and having used a cleaning
tape, but over 95% of the tape had no problem, so I wouldn't know how
to be sure the problem was gone.

Thanks very much for any insights.



Mike


It doesn't sound like a tape problem to me - tape errors are usually much
longer glitches of digital mash. A Dat system has a lot of reduncany built
in, so much so that you can lose one of the two head outputs altogether and
still be able to error correct to zero errors, so long as there are no
errors on the tape. You need quite a largish chunk of tape to go wrong to
be unrecoverable, and this does not usually manifest itself as the very
short, spaced clicks on your recording.

It sounds more like some kind of encoding error, a few dodgy samples, but
this is a total guess. Are you sure the mic/phantom system is OK? Could
there have been some odd static/earthing anomalies going on during the
recording that upset the DAT and recorded short errors? Maybe someone
walked on a carpet, got statically charged and touched the mic, DAT, etc?


Gareth.

[LAB]

I have bought my Casio DA-7 portable DAT recorder in 1990. About 10
years later I've had to replace 37 (37!) electrolytic surface mounting (SMD)
capacitors because their capacity was become about 1000pF(!) instead
1...100uF (many values). I have replaced them with non-SMD ones (bigger!),
so I have solved the problem. The more critical capacitors are the ones in
hot places, because they dry before the others.
Before measuring capacitor I asked to the assistance: they told me that
they had to replace the converters for more than 100$...

Gianluca

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike wrote:
I know all the cool kids have flash recorders now, but I've been more
than happy with my Sony DTC-2000ES DAT. Until this week, when a bunch
of clicks/pops marred my recording. How can I best diagnose this?

The details: Crown SASS-P with Crown phantom power supply, 1/4-inch to
XLR converter cables, cheap 60m data grade tape as I can't find legit
audio DATs any more. The recording was transferred to PC using the
deck's digital out with an M-Audio Transit USB; the clicks also appear
on the deck's analog outputs, in exactly the same patterns each time
the tape is replayed.

What kind of DAT machine was this, and when was it last cleaned and
aligned?

If the deck has an error rate counter, what does the counter do when it
passes by the bad spot?

The 60 meter digital tapes are fine, and actually better certified than
the audio grade tapes. My bet is the issue is the machine. These things
need annual PM and a lot of them don't get it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Mike wrote:
I know all the cool kids have flash recorders now, but I've been more
than happy with my Sony DTC-2000ES DAT. Until this week, when a bunch
of clicks/pops marred my recording. How can I best diagnose this?

The details: Crown SASS-P with Crown phantom power supply, 1/4-inch
to XLR converter cables, cheap 60m data grade tape as I can't find
legit audio DATs any more. The recording was transferred to PC using
the deck's digital out with an M-Audio Transit USB; the clicks also
appear on the deck's analog outputs, in exactly the same patterns
each time the tape is replayed.

What kind of DAT machine was this, and when was it last cleaned and
aligned?

Sony DTC-2000ES DAT is what he says ... good transport, 4 motors, hardly any
moving parts.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


If the deck has an error rate counter, what does the counter do when
it passes by the bad spot?

The 60 meter digital tapes are fine, and actually better certified
than the audio grade tapes. My bet is the issue is the machine.
These things need annual PM and a lot of them don't get it.
--scott

[Mike]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to provide suggestions about the
unusual pops and clicks that appeared in the output of my Sony DAT
DTC-2000ES recording.

Thanks especially Peter Larsen for posting the image of the click
waveform at

http://www.muyiovatki.dk/click.png

It sure looks analog to me; I'm not sure if I should be happy or
unhappy about that. Can anything be inferred from the fact that the
click hit the two channels at different times?

I suppose it is possible that one of the singers bumped or brushed by
the mic / recorder, discharging some static electricity. But I can't
remember seeing a static discharge last for so many seconds.

Scott Dorsey asks what an error rate counter would show. I wondered
about that, too. But because Sony marketed the 2000ES as a home deck,
there is no error rate counter advertised in its documentation.

I vaguely seem to remember hearing that some sort of magic key
sequence would enable one, but have been unable to Google up a
reference. Maybe someone else has better Google-fu than me? Or maybe I
should pick up a cheap used pro DAT with an error counter.

I purchased the machine used about four years ago. The previous owner
told me it had been annually maintained, but he could have been full
of hooey.

I am a volunteer recordist on a budget, and I've only recorded about
fifteen 2-hour sessions since then, so I have not had it cleaned or
aligned while it seemed to be working fine.

If it's time to get it done now, though, is there a local place in the
NYC-Boston corridor I could take this, or should I ship it to Pro
Digital?




--
Mike ---

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Mike wrote:

Scott Dorsey asks what an error rate counter would show. I wondered
about that, too. But because Sony marketed the 2000ES as a home deck,
there is no error rate counter advertised in its documentation.

It is there, but it is the service manual that tells you how2, not the user
manual.

I vaguely seem to remember hearing that some sort of magic key
sequence would enable one, but have been unable to Google up a
reference. Maybe someone else has better Google-fu than me? Or maybe I
should pick up a cheap used pro DAT with an error counter.

You have the very best mechanism available. The SV3800 has an easy access
error counter and better playback error correction and needs both because
the mechanism is somewhat less advanced, it is like the difference between a
Beocord 1800 and an A700.

I purchased the machine used about four years ago. The previous owner
told me it had been annually maintained, but he could have been full
of hooey.

Not all people are bad.

I am a volunteer recordist on a budget, and I've only recorded about
fifteen 2-hour sessions since then, so I have not had it cleaned or
aligned while it seemed to be working fine.

If it was clean then, then it is clean now. That machine does not tend to
suffer from any of the issues the SV3800 and similar primitive mechanisms
suffer from.

If it's time to get it done now, though, is there a local place in the
NYC-Boston corridor I could take this, or should I ship it to Pro
Digital?

I know I contradict Scott on this, but is not likely to have a mechanical
issue, it may however need cleaning, especially if a tape has flaked. It is
awful to get loose debris clogging a head, however I know of people who have
many more hours on such machines and the just work and keep working because
there really is not very much that can go wrong due to the very few moving
parts.

I got tired of loosing recordings due to head clogging on my modded SV3800
(it has had a drive mechanism problem from new, unfortunately the mechanism
was repaired rather than replaced) and bought a Fostex MR8HD. It does not
sound quite as good, but it just works.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike" wrote in message

Thanks everyone for taking the time to provide
suggestions about the unusual pops and clicks that
appeared in the output of my Sony DAT DTC-2000ES
recording.

Thanks especially Peter Larsen for posting the image of
the click waveform at

http://www.muyiovatki.dk/click.png

It sure looks analog to me; I'm not sure if I should be
happy or unhappy about that. Can anything be inferred
from the fact that the click hit the two channels at
different times?

I infer that since the DAT operates on a serial data stream with the left
and right channels interleaved, that the click did not take place in the
digital domain.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message


http://www.muyiovatki.dk/click.png

It sure looks analog to me; I'm not sure if I should be
happy or unhappy about that. Can anything be inferred
from the fact that the click hit the two channels at
different times?

I infer that since the DAT operates on a serial data stream with the
left and right channels interleaved, that the click did not take
place in the digital domain.

The regularity of it then narrows it down to RFI as my best guess, is there
a radar or a hospital near the recording location?


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Arny Krueger]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message


http://www.muyiovatki.dk/click.png

It sure looks analog to me; I'm not sure if I should be
happy or unhappy about that. Can anything be inferred
from the fact that the click hit the two channels at
different times?

I infer that since the DAT operates on a serial data
stream with the left and right channels interleaved,
that the click did not take place in the digital domain.

The regularity of it then narrows it down to RFI as my
best guess, is there a radar or a hospital near the
recording location?

IME RFI tends to affect both channels similarly.

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 17, 12:59 am, Mike wrote:

http://www.muyiovatki.dk/click.png

It sure looks analog to me; I'm not sure if I should be happy or
unhappy about that. Can anything be inferred from the fact that the
click hit the two channels at different times?

It doesn't sound like any "recorder artifact" that I recognize. It
sounds like it was that way going in, and looks like it, too. No
evidence of clipping or dropouts, and that's about all a digital
conversion or storage process can do when you get down to a very close
look.

What happens when you record a steady tone? Or silence? You need to
determine if this is something repeatable, repeatable under specific
conditions, random, or just a fluke in this recording.

[John Williamson]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 17, 12:59 am, Mike wrote:

http://www.muyiovatki.dk/click.png

It sure looks analog to me; I'm not sure if I should be happy or
unhappy about that. Can anything be inferred from the fact that the
click hit the two channels at different times?

It doesn't sound like any "recorder artifact" that I recognize. It
sounds like it was that way going in, and looks like it, too. No
evidence of clipping or dropouts, and that's about all a digital
conversion or storage process can do when you get down to a very close
look.

What happens when you record a steady tone? Or silence? You need to
determine if this is something repeatable, repeatable under specific
conditions, random, or just a fluke in this recording.

I was thinking the same while I was lurking in the background, &
listening closely, the clicks seem slightly off centre in the sound
field, & sound almost exactly like rapid, distant gunfire. The first one
sounds fairly heavy, with the rest sounding like small arms from half a
mile or so.

Is there a firing range in the vicinity? Cadet force practicing?

It certainly looks on the trace & sounds like something external to the
recording venue, IMHO.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[tmaki]

Mike wrote:
I know all the cool kids have flash recorders now, but I've been more
than happy with my Sony DTC-2000ES DAT. Until this week, when a bunch
of clicks/pops marred my recording. How can I best diagnose this?

The clicks appear in the early part of the excerpt, but then disappear.

Why did I get this noise? A bad tape? Do I need to use a cleaning
tape? Is the deck (gulp?) on the fritz?

Thanks very much for any insights.



Not to appear contrary to the hoary heads full of wisdom,
insight and advice to seek the most expensive and difficult
course of diagnosis, but having spent way too many years
recording singers in less than ideal conditions, I recognize
this noise as purely mechanical/acoustical. It sounds
exactly like a creaking choir riser, squeaky floor board,
music stand hinge/pivot or some other mechanically generated
noise that stopped when the perp realized it could be heard.
("Oh, cripes, I wonder if he could hear that?")

You can hear the background room component of the noise. An
anomaly with the recorder or tape would not imprint the
room signature. Unless your sample has some kind of "room
tone" added to it.

Just my guess. "Stop. What's that noise? Can we get somebody
to move around so we can find it? Okay, take two."



TM

[david correia]

In article ,
Mike wrote:

If it's time to get it done now, though, is there a local place in the
NYC-Boston corridor I could take this, or should I ship it to Pro
Digital?


We always sent our Dat machines to NXT Generation, which used to be part
of JRF Magnetics. NXT is located in Pennsylvania. I would still use them
today.



http://www.nxtgentech.com/




David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[Edi Zubovic]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:01:07 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Mike wrote:
I know all the cool kids have flash recorders now, but I've been more
than happy with my Sony DTC-2000ES DAT. Until this week, when a bunch
of clicks/pops marred my recording. How can I best diagnose this?

The details: Crown SASS-P with Crown phantom power supply, 1/4-inch
to XLR converter cables, cheap 60m data grade tape as I can't find
legit audio DATs any more. The recording was transferred to PC using
the deck's digital out with an M-Audio Transit USB; the clicks also
appear on the deck's analog outputs, in exactly the same patterns
each time the tape is replayed.

What kind of DAT machine was this, and when was it last cleaned and
aligned?

Sony DTC-2000ES DAT is what he says ... good transport, 4 motors, hardly any
moving parts.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


If the deck has an error rate counter, what does the counter do when
it passes by the bad spot?

The 60 meter digital tapes are fine, and actually better certified
than the audio grade tapes. My bet is the issue is the machine.
These things need annual PM and a lot of them don't get it.
--scott

-- After looking at some DAT tapes I have on the shelf, contained
unique historical recordings, and not willing to put them into any
second-hand portable Sony or Aiwa, I came across a streamer SCSI
device, Sony SDT-9000, which is capable to read/write audio DAT tapes.
It's a DDS-3 device and it should be capable to read DAT tapes at some
2, even 3 times realtime. Together with the VDAT software, I hope I'll
be able to finally transfer these, and a quantuity of similar DAT
tapes. Sony SDT-9000 is one of very rare tape straamers, which may be
reflashed with a firmware allowing them to be audio-DAT capable. I
expect to get the streamer in 2 weeks. Of course, I'll test it with a
blank DAT first. According to the seller, it should have been working
for a short time only.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Laurence Payne]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:55:27 +0100, Edi Zubovic edi.zubovic[rem
wrote:

-- After looking at some DAT tapes I have on the shelf, contained
unique historical recordings, and not willing to put them into any
second-hand portable Sony or Aiwa, I came across a streamer SCSI
device, Sony SDT-9000, which is capable to read/write audio DAT tapes.
It's a DDS-3 device and it should be capable to read DAT tapes at some
2, even 3 times realtime. Together with the VDAT software, I hope I'll
be able to finally transfer these, and a quantuity of similar DAT
tapes. Sony SDT-9000 is one of very rare tape straamers, which may be
reflashed with a firmware allowing them to be audio-DAT capable. I
expect to get the streamer in 2 weeks. Of course, I'll test it with a
blank DAT first. According to the seller, it should have been working
for a short time only.

What makes you think this device would treat your tapes any better
than a portable machine?

[Edi Zubovic]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:09:24 +0000, Laurence Payne
NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:55:27 +0100, Edi Zubovic edi.zubovic[rem
wrote:

-- After looking at some DAT tapes I have on the shelf, contained
unique historical recordings, and not willing to put them into any
second-hand portable Sony or Aiwa, I came across a streamer SCSI
device, Sony SDT-9000, which is capable to read/write audio DAT tapes.
It's a DDS-3 device and it should be capable to read DAT tapes at some
2, even 3 times realtime. Together with the VDAT software, I hope I'll
be able to finally transfer these, and a quantuity of similar DAT
tapes. Sony SDT-9000 is one of very rare tape straamers, which may be
reflashed with a firmware allowing them to be audio-DAT capable. I
expect to get the streamer in 2 weeks. Of course, I'll test it with a
blank DAT first. According to the seller, it should have been working
for a short time only.

What makes you think this device would treat your tapes any better
than a portable machine?
-- There are many portable DAT offerings at Ebay. Some are supposed to
be in a good working order according to their price and some aren't.
Second-hand portable recorders are always risky -- it's a little
problem when they eat up your new blank DAT tape but for these I have
I must not allow this. Tape streamers seem to me safer especially when
claimed to have low working hours. I have a TRAVAN tape drive and
never experienced a problem with a tape (way back when I have been
still using it). So I expect this device to be safer to DAT tapes as
well. It should have error correction and I can have recordings at
least 2x realtime directly to the SCSI bus. For my purposes,
professional DAT recorders in a maintained condition aren't necessary.

Edi Zubovic,, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Ty Ford]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 07:11:46 -0500, Edi Zubovic wrote
(in article ):

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:09:24 +0000, Laurence Payne
NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:55:27 +0100, Edi Zubovic edi.zubovic[rem
wrote:

-- After looking at some DAT tapes I have on the shelf, contained
unique historical recordings, and not willing to put them into any
second-hand portable Sony or Aiwa, I came across a streamer SCSI
device, Sony SDT-9000, which is capable to read/write audio DAT tapes.
It's a DDS-3 device and it should be capable to read DAT tapes at some
2, even 3 times realtime. Together with the VDAT software, I hope I'll
be able to finally transfer these, and a quantuity of similar DAT
tapes. Sony SDT-9000 is one of very rare tape straamers, which may be
reflashed with a firmware allowing them to be audio-DAT capable. I
expect to get the streamer in 2 weeks. Of course, I'll test it with a
blank DAT first. According to the seller, it should have been working
for a short time only.

What makes you think this device would treat your tapes any better
than a portable machine?
-- There are many portable DAT offerings at Ebay. Some are supposed to
be in a good working order according to their price and some aren't.
Second-hand portable recorders are always risky -- it's a little
problem when they eat up your new blank DAT tape but for these I have
I must not allow this. Tape streamers seem to me safer especially when
claimed to have low working hours. I have a TRAVAN tape drive and
never experienced a problem with a tape (way back when I have been
still using it). So I expect this device to be safer to DAT tapes as
well. It should have error correction and I can have recordings at
least 2x realtime directly to the SCSI bus. For my purposes,
professional DAT recorders in a maintained condition aren't necessary.

Edi Zubovic,, Crikvenica, Croatia

Dobro Utro Edi,

I recall there being some concern if the portable machines had smaller
diameter heads that the tape would be bent more as it wrapped.

DUnno.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Edi Zubovic wrote:

-- After looking at some DAT tapes I have on the shelf, contained
unique historical recordings, and not willing to put them into any
second-hand portable Sony or Aiwa, I came across a streamer SCSI
device, Sony SDT-9000, which is capable to read/write audio DAT tapes.
It's a DDS-3 device and it should be capable to read DAT tapes at some
2, even 3 times realtime. Together with the VDAT software, I hope I'll
be able to finally transfer these, and a quantuity of similar DAT
tapes. Sony SDT-9000 is one of very rare tape straamers, which may be
reflashed with a firmware allowing them to be audio-DAT capable. I
expect to get the streamer in 2 weeks. Of course, I'll test it with a
blank DAT first. According to the seller, it should have been working
for a short time only.

Drooooool .... O;-) ... those drives are designed to handle much thinner
tapes. But do not discard those portables, they can be better at syncing to
problems tapes due to the small drum.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia


kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Laurence Payne wrote:

What makes you think this device would treat your tapes any better
than a portable machine?

Because it is built to handle thin tapes with care. The non-realtime option
also looks nice.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Ty Ford wrote:

Dobro Utro Edi,

I recall there being some concern if the portable machines had smaller
diameter heads that the tape would be bent more as it wrapped.

I am not familiar with this concern, but I have witnessed a small portable
play a tape that was unplayable on five different statinonary DATs,
including the one that recorded it.

Ty Ford

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Edi Zubovic]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:01:18 -0500, Ty Ford
wrote:


------------------
-- There are many portable DAT offerings at Ebay. Some are supposed to
be in a good working order according to their price and some aren't.
Second-hand portable recorders are always risky -- it's a little
problem when they eat up your new blank DAT tape but for these I have
I must not allow this. Tape streamers seem to me safer especially when
claimed to have low working hours. I have a TRAVAN tape drive and
never experienced a problem with a tape (way back when I have been
still using it). So I expect this device to be safer to DAT tapes as
well. It should have error correction and I can have recordings at
least 2x realtime directly to the SCSI bus. For my purposes,
professional DAT recorders in a maintained condition aren't necessary.

Edi Zubovic,, Crikvenica, Croatia

Dobro Utro Edi,

I recall there being some concern if the portable machines had smaller
diameter heads that the tape would be bent more as it wrapped.

DUnno.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

Dobar dan {Good Day} Ty,

I wouldn't have nothing against a brand new portable DATdevice.
However, as on the Ebay we are often buying "the cat in a bag" ie.
unproved things being carefully advertised and photograhed --
carefully to the seller, that is -- I had to screen out the portable
DATs which may have been broken, serviced, dropped down etc., as I'd
like to reduce the risk of damaging a tape to a minimum if possible.

All the best,

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Gareth Magennis]

I recall there being some concern if the portable machines had smaller
diameter heads that the tape would be bent more as it wrapped.

DUnno.

Regards,

Ty Ford



The DATs with the smaller diameter heads have to have the tape wrapped round
far more of the heads circumferance than a standard head, meaning, IIRC,
increased friction between head and tape, and therefore more likelyhood of a
sticky head snatching the tape and eating it. There were other issues too,
can't remember them now. (head gets hotter?)


Gareth.

[Edi Zubovic[_2_]]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:55:27 +0100, Edi Zubovic edi.zubovic[rem
wrote:


-- After looking at some DAT tapes I have on the shelf, contained
unique historical recordings, and not willing to put them into any
second-hand portable Sony or Aiwa, I came across a streamer SCSI
device, Sony SDT-9000, which is capable to read/write audio DAT tapes.
It's a DDS-3 device and it should be capable to read DAT tapes at some
2, even 3 times realtime. Together with the VDAT software, I hope I'll
be able to finally transfer these, and a quantuity of similar DAT
tapes. Sony SDT-9000 is one of very rare tape straamers, which may be
reflashed with a firmware allowing them to be audio-DAT capable. I
expect to get the streamer in 2 weeks. Of course, I'll test it with a
blank DAT first. According to the seller, it should have been working
for a short time only.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia


Hello all,

today I've received the Sony SDT-9000 and after installing it, I can
say that it fulfilled my expectations. It seems to handle the tape
very well, with the VDAT software I'm able to transfer recordings at
approx. double speed (SCSI sync it at 10 MB/s, 8 Bit) and I couldn't
find any error, glitch or whatever. The recordings sound excellent
(first-gen production master tapes) and frankly nobody could tell that
they were recorded more than 50 years ago. The reel to reel machine
has been optimally prepared for DAT recording. Of course, no
processing other that standard ones (DC offset, dithering...) are
required. Now that's about how Mobile Fildelity Soud Lab recordings
recordings are sounding --Mono, of course.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Edi Zubovic wrote:

today I've received the Sony SDT-9000 and after installing it, I can
say that it fulfilled my expectations. It seems to handle the tape
very well, with the VDAT software I'm able to transfer recordings at
approx. double speed (SCSI sync it at 10 MB/s, 8 Bit) and I couldn't
find any error, glitch or whatever. The recordings sound excellent
(first-gen production master tapes) and frankly nobody could tell that
they were recorded more than 50 years ago.

Inflation? - 2008 less 1987 equalled 21 back in 1960!

The reel to reel machine
has been optimally prepared for DAT recording.

You win, now I'm confused. When did the R2R enter this thread, has I
overlooked something? - it is not admissible now if it was not entered into
the thread at the first level.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message...

Edi Zubovic wrote:

The reel to reel machine
has been optimally prepared for DAT recording.

You win, now I'm confused.

You be confused... I'm completely lost.

[Edi Zubovic[_2_]]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:38:46 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
/Odm wrote:


"Peter Larsen" wrote in message...

Edi Zubovic wrote:

The reel to reel machine
has been optimally prepared for DAT recording.

You win, now I'm confused.

You be confused... I'm completely lost.



{Sigh.} Sorry for causing any confusion in failing to explain things
fully. There's a archive of master tapes and records. The reel-to-reel
machine has been carefully adjusted and prepared for playback. Then,
some tapes were recorded with a DATrecorder, I believe Sony 2000
series. It's important that tor that puropses, the azimuth is if
necessary mached as far as it goes to the particular tape to be
recorded. It's normally that heads and the tape path should be cleaned
and demagnetized. And both of the machines should of course be in a
good shape. As it is, to say at least, impractical to arrange
repeated recording sessions, the DAT tapes should be reproduced
safely. That's why I've been picky about DAT.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Edi Zubovic wrote:

The reel to reel machine
has been optimally prepared for DAT recording.

You win, now I'm confused.

You be confused... I'm completely lost.

{Sigh.} Sorry for causing any confusion in failing to explain things
fully. There's a archive of master tapes and records.

OK, so the DAT tapes are transfers of it. It is a good idea to also transfer
the DAT tapes now that they exist and it is less resource-intensive, and
thus cheaper, to so do than to redigitize the tapes.

The reel-to-reel
machine has been carefully adjusted and prepared for playback. Then,
some tapes were recorded with a DATrecorder, I believe Sony 2000
series. It's important that tor that puropses, the azimuth is if
necessary mached as far as it goes to the particular tape to be
recorded. It's normally that heads and the tape path should be cleaned
and demagnetized. And both of the machines should of course be in a
good shape. As it is, to say at least, impractical to arrange
repeated recording sessions, the DAT tapes should be reproduced
safely. That's why I've been picky about DAT.

Makes perfect sense, DAT tape as a storage medium is considerably "higher
risk" than analog tape. The "2000" and the "77" are the best DAT's Sony
made, but there are better converters around, imo even the "lowly"
Audiophile 2496 is better sounding ex works, if possible do consider
redigitizing with a high grade converter, I full well understand that all
kinds of practicalities may hinder this with all the problems you have had
in your region.

Please repost what computer DAT drive you found usable ....

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Edi Zubovic[_2_]]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:35:28 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
wrote:

----------------------------------8-----------------------------------
{Sigh.} Sorry for causing any confusion in failing to explain things
fully. There's a archive of master tapes and records.

OK, so the DAT tapes are transfers of it. It is a good idea to also transfer
the DAT tapes now that they exist and it is less resource-intensive, and
thus cheaper, to so do than to redigitize the tapes.

The reel-to-reel
machine has been carefully adjusted and prepared for playback. Then,
some tapes were recorded with a DATrecorder, I believe Sony 2000
series. It's important that tor that puropses, the azimuth is if
necessary mached as far as it goes to the particular tape to be
recorded. It's normally that heads and the tape path should be cleaned
and demagnetized. And both of the machines should of course be in a
good shape. As it is, to say at least, impractical to arrange
repeated recording sessions, the DAT tapes should be reproduced
safely. That's why I've been picky about DAT.

Makes perfect sense, DAT tape as a storage medium is considerably "higher
risk" than analog tape. The "2000" and the "77" are the best DAT's Sony
made, but there are better converters around, imo even the "lowly"
Audiophile 2496 is better sounding ex works, if possible do consider
redigitizing with a high grade converter, I full well understand that all
kinds of practicalities may hinder this with all the problems you have had
in your region.

Please repost what computer DAT drive you found usable ....

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

The computer DAT which works well for transferring audio DAT tapes is
the Sony SDT-9000 but only if it has been first flashed with the
Version 12.2 firmware. Perhaps an adjacent version number (11.xx or
so) has also the audio DAT capabilities but I have 12.2 and it works.
Newer firmware will disable audio DAT feature so the drive should not
be reflashed with latest Sony firmware. Also this Sony SDT-9000 is the
one of three computer tape drives which is capable of handling audio
DAT tapes.

Here's the story:--
http://winkin.phpwebhosting.com/~firmflash/dat/

--I'm transferring the material with a program called VDAT.

While I know that in the time the RTR to DAT transfers are made some
15 years ago, and A/D converters are now far better, it would be for
now hard for me to arrange a repeated recording sessions, where I
could record from a RTR to, say, the Sony PCM-D1. But today I've made
a contact with the local recording label, which have that archive, to
try to arrange for sending to me their project, a history of
Dalamatian songs -- folk harmony singers mainly, either a capella or
accompained with mandolin or other small orchestras -- which they
issued on 8 CD (2 sets) and which has been made (very) substandard by
use of that NoNoise system or similar. Now, I have an idea to send
them a portable USB 160 GB hard drive, where they would put these
_raw_ transfers (if they still have them) so I could restore them my
way after I get the drive back. This is of course only an idea but it
would be fine if this project would be redone the right way. But we'll
see if this idea would come to some good ears... This are the only
problem I have here, believe me

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

PS. The recordings on DAT tapes I have are pristine and so they should
remain...