[Gabe Knuth]

Hi All,

I need a bit of guidance (maybe a lot...not sure!)

My company puts on two conferences a year, and we record each breakout
session. In the past we've used the house systems for this...mics,
mixers, you name it. In each situation we've had noise, crappy
equipment, and poor support from the staff. Now we've decided that we
want to have our own mics, mixer, and some sort of noise eliminator,
along with our recording PC in a 6u shock-mounted rack. The idea is
that we tell the conference venue that all we need from them is a line
to their projector and an input to the house sound.

We want to have 2 lavs per room (4 rooms total), and we were thinking
about something like this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Kit?sku=277433

We also want to have a couple wireless handheld sets on reserve for
situations where we need 3 or 4 mics in a room.

But they want to know which channel (A, B, or C) we need. Which got
me thinking about frequencies in general, and now I'm worried about
not finding enough available ones in Chicago (let alone which channel
I should pick...seems kind of permanent).

So, to boil it down to a question or two...

How big of a deal is frequency contention? I understand the
ramifications, but I have a hard time believing that in the entire
city of Chicago there are only 23 frequencies that can be used for
mic's. Maybe that's normal? (I got the number 23 from
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/frequen...er/default.asp)

Is there maybe a different rig we should be looking at? The big deal
for us is the headset mic, since we want to assure good voice
quality. We've had problems with people putting lapel mics in bad
places.

Thanks so much!
Gabe

[Richard Crowley]

"Gabe Knuth" wrote ...
I need a bit of guidance (maybe a lot...not sure!)

My company puts on two conferences a year, and we
record each breakout session. In the past we've used
the house systems for this...mics, mixers, you name it.
In each situation we've had noise,

If you want to do something about reducing your noise,
you will need to properly identify it. For example, is it
room (audience, HVAC, etc.) noise because of poor
selection and/or deployment of the microphone(s)?

Or is it "hiss" from inadequate recording levels or
"distortion" from overloaded recording levels?

Or is it intermittent dropouts or "crackling" from poorly-
maintained or deployed equipment? Etc. etc. etc.

crappy equipment,

Exactly what symptoms make you think the problem
was "crappy equipment"?

and poor support from the staff.

Have they been unresponsive to your requirements?
Did you provide proper requirements to them ahead
of time and they failed to deliver? Or did you ask for
things on-site (i.e. last minute) and expect them to
scramble? Why continue using the facility? Why not
engage an independent event sound contractor?

Now we've decided that we want to have our own
mics, mixer, and some sort of noise eliminator,

How did you arrive at the decision that it is better to
buy than to rent? And especially for only twice a year?

along with our recording PC

How did you arrive at the decision to record using a PC?
Are you aware of the several (and severe) pitfalls in using
PCs to record live events with no "take two"? Every
year there are more and more very competent small digital
recorders which would be infinitely better at capturing
this kind of sound than any kind of computer would be.
And they are significantly cheaper and easier to use, too.

in a 6u shock-mounted rack. The idea is that we tell the
conference venue that all we need from them is a line
to their projector and an input to the house sound.

Have you investigated the several (many?) vendors who
specialize in recording multi-breakout conferences?
Most of them offer on-side duplication and sales, etc.

We want to have 2 lavs per room (4 rooms total),
and we were thinking about something like this:
[Sennheiser-EW122-G2 system]

We also want to have a couple wireless handheld
sets on reserve for situations where we need 3 or 4
mics in a room.

Is that how you are handling audience questions and/or
interaction, etc?

But they want to know which channel (A, B, or C) we need.

Acutally, which frequency ranges...
A = 518-554 MHz
B = 626-662 MHz
C = 740-776 MHz
and apparently MF don't even sell the "D" or "E" ranges?

Which got me thinking about frequencies in general, and
now I'm worried about not finding enough available ones
in Chicago (let alone which channel I should pick...seems
kind of permanent).

So, to boil it down to a question or two...

How big of a deal is frequency contention?

It is a nighmare in large cities, and it is about be become a
high-noon horror as the FCC auctions off the frequency
bands with the transition to digital television. A big city is
a terrible place to try to coordinate frequencies with such
limited equipment on such an occasional schedule.
Furthermore, this is the worst possible time to be *buying*
wireless mics even if it made sense for you otherwise.

I understand the ramifications, but I have a hard time
believing that in the entire city of Chicago there are only
23 frequencies that can be used for mic's. Maybe that's
normal? (I got the number 23 from
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/frequen...er/default.asp)

That is what you are limited to *with that equipment*.
Certainly those are not the only channels available for
wireless mic use. OTOH, finding available frequencies
for as many wireless mics as you want to use in a big
city like Chicago will be a nightmare to try to manage
on your own, especially for such an occasional event.

Is there maybe a different rig we should be looking at?

At the very least, you should be renting real professional
quality wireless mics in the event city (not from across the
continent). Professional equipment costs several times
more than the example you cited (and comes with the
kinds of features you would expect for the $$$). And a
proper LOCAL rental establishment will be of inestimable
help in doing LOCAL frequency coordination for you.

Even better would be for you to engage a competent
event sound contractor who specializes in seminars such
as you are doing (i.e. not your average rock-band sound
crew). Or tell your current venue why you are leaving them
and going over to their competitor and maybe they will
wake up and smell the coffee. You should likely also be
investigating event recording specialty vendors.

The big deal for us is the headset mic, since we want to
assure good voice quality. We've had problems with
people putting lapel mics in bad places.

A good event sound contractor will have a variety of mics
available to optimize pickup for whatever situations you
encounter.

Buying wireless mics in this time-frame is something to be
avoided even for people who use them all the time. But
for someone who puts on a twice-a-year event, it is nuts.
You also didn't mention whether you have competent
technical crew to run all of this (and who aren't doubling
up as gophers or event coordinators, etc. etc.)

[Scott Dorsey]

Gabe Knuth wrote:
How big of a deal is frequency contention? I understand the
ramifications, but I have a hard time believing that in the entire
city of Chicago there are only 23 frequencies that can be used for
mic's. Maybe that's normal? (I got the number 23 from
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/frequen...er/default.asp)

It's hell, it's bad, and it's going to get worse. The Sennheiser web site
is very useful and will give you good information about the current state
of channel allocations, but they will change in the next few years.

Do not buy any wireless system right now and expect to continue using it
for more than a couple years. Do not buy any wireless system now and
expect to be able to carry it from city to city.

Is there maybe a different rig we should be looking at? The big deal
for us is the headset mic, since we want to assure good voice
quality. We've had problems with people putting lapel mics in bad
places.

You could go with a wired headset mike. Or you could go with one of the
new spread-spectrum wireless systems, which would give you a much lower
(but not zero) probability of major failure.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[D C[_2_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Do not buy any wireless system right now and expect to continue using it
for more than a couple years. Do not buy any wireless system now and
expect to be able to carry it from city to city.

I'm selling my four Sony ECM77B lav mics.

[Richard Crowley]

"D C" wrote ...
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Do not buy any wireless system right now and expect to continue using it
for more than a couple years. Do not buy any wireless system now and
expect to be able to carry it from city to city.

I'm selling my four Sony ECM77B lav mics.

If I were smart, I'd sell all my wireless mics, too.
Of course, we will have to find people willing to buy....

[Tynan AgviÐr]

soundhaspriority wrote in
:

In article
,
"Gabe Knuth" wrote:

In each situation we've had noise, crappy
equipment, and poor support from the staff. Now we've decided that
we want to have our own mics, mixer, and some sort of noise
eliminator, along with our recording PC in a 6u shock-mounted rack.
The idea is that we tell the conference venue that all we need from
them is a line to their projector and an input to the house sound.

So you're unhappy with the "professionals" you've been using, and now
want to run your own amateur hour? Sure, the hotel technicians are
pretty close to the bottom of the food chain engineering-wise, but
amateurs would be lower still. It took me a long time to work my way
up to where I'm at now, the pinnical of my career. You should stick
with us pros and forget trying to do it yourself where all you'll be
is disappointed.

Bob Morein
(215) 646-4894



a multi-degreed PhD, and still cant ****ing spell. Walters, is that you?

[Eeyore]

"Tynan AgviÐr" wrote:

soundhaspriority wrote
"Gabe Knuth" wrote:

In each situation we've had noise, crappy
equipment, and poor support from the staff. Now we've decided that
we want to have our own mics, mixer, and some sort of noise
eliminator, along with our recording PC in a 6u shock-mounted rack.
The idea is that we tell the conference venue that all we need from
them is a line to their projector and an input to the house sound.

So you're unhappy with the "professionals" you've been using, and now
want to run your own amateur hour? Sure, the hotel technicians are
pretty close to the bottom of the food chain engineering-wise, but
amateurs would be lower still. It took me a long time to work my way
up to where I'm at now, the pinnical of my career. You should stick
with us pros and forget trying to do it yourself where all you'll be
is disappointed.

Bob Morein
(215) 646-4894


a multi-degreed PhD, and still cant ****ing spell. Walters, is that you?

It's a forgery. Bob Morein has a stalker who 'imposts' him. Just look for
'buzzard news' in the headers.

Graham

[Tynan AgviÐr]

Eeyore wrote in
:



"Tynan AgviÐr" wrote:

soundhaspriority wrote
"Gabe Knuth" wrote:

In each situation we've had noise, crappy
equipment, and poor support from the staff. Now we've decided that
we want to have our own mics, mixer, and some sort of noise
eliminator, along with our recording PC in a 6u shock-mounted rack.
The idea is that we tell the conference venue that all we need from
them is a line to their projector and an input to the house sound.

So you're unhappy with the "professionals" you've been using, and
now
want to run your own amateur hour? Sure, the hotel technicians are
pretty close to the bottom of the food chain engineering-wise, but
amateurs would be lower still. It took me a long time to work my way
up to where I'm at now, the pinnical of my career. You should stick
with us pros and forget trying to do it yourself where all you'll be
is disappointed.

Bob Morein
(215) 646-4894


a multi-degreed PhD, and still cant ****ing spell. Walters, is that
you?

It's a forgery. Bob Morein has a stalker who 'imposts' him. Just look
for
'buzzard news' in the headers.

Graham




so who is the quack here, Morein, or the Imposter?? where can I get more
info on them?

Are you familiar with "Walters", Sir?

[Tynan AgviÐr]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in
:

"Tynan AgviÐr" wrote ...
so who is the quack here, Morein, or the Imposter??
where can I get more info on them?

Are you familiar with "Walters", Sir?

Not familiar with you either, for that matter.
Ignore the troll and get on with your life or you
will get plonked along with him as a troll groupie.

Since we've never heard of you in rec.audio.pro
or rec.arts.movies.production.sound, assume you
are cross-posting from rec.audio.tubes Please
stay there. Thanks. Have a nice day.



"plonk" all you want, tough guy. posting to either of those two groups was
unintentional as I was asking Mr. Graham here on rat a question..but I give
not a single damn as to movies.production whatever the hell, rec.audio.pro
or your threats. I dont frequent either of those boards, so I wish to
extend a hearty ***** you* from the bottom of my heart, cocksucker. You can
put away your internet dick and go back to your coopers, lectrosonics,
foleys, and shotguns now. and Please have a nice day, asshole.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:26:29 -0000, "Tynan AgviÐr"
wrote:

Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro,rec.arts.movies.production.sound


posting to either of those two groups was
unintentional as I was asking Mr. Graham here on rat a question.

Dude, you're not on rat. Buy a clue. And, nice language;
very mature.

Chris Hornbeck

[Tynan AgviÐr]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in
:


"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


[snip]

It's a forgery. Bob Morein has a stalker who 'imposts' him. Just look
for 'buzzard news' in the headers.

Graham

Graham,
Thanks.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511



Mr. Morein, sorry if I insulted you Sir. I had no idea.


-Tynan