[[email protected]]

Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface? I am looking for a more
studio quality sound card to replace my M.Audio192 pci card i am using
right now. I am using sonar6 producer, and mostly recording vertual
instruments. The only thing i record analog would be my vocal. I
also use mackie 1202 vlz. I don't know what really suites my need
here. My budget is around $500 cdn. Is external interface better
than pci cards? Can anyone help me please. I really appreciate ur
help.

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 10, 3:05 am, wrote:

Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface?

It depends on your standards. I wouldn't consider it to be one, but
it's probably OK for anyone who would ask such a question.

I am looking for a more
studio quality sound card to replace my M.Audio192 pci card i am using
right now.

I'd suggest that you look beyond the FireBox if quality of the
converters and analog circuitry is your primary concern. But if by
"quality" you mean more inputs and outputs, that's a different story.

The only thing i record analog would be my vocal. I
also use mackie 1202 vlz. I don't know what really suites my need
here. My budget is around $500 cdn.

I'd suggest that you look into a Lynx card, but with the Mackie VLZ as
a front end, I doubt that you'd notice a significant difference with a
change in sound cards. The M-Audio card is a good match in quality
with the Mackie mixer. Get a much better sound card without a much
better mic preamp (and maybe mic, and maybe room) and you won't see
much of an improvement.

Same the other way around, in general. Put a $2000 mic preamp ahead of
your M-Audio card and you may not notice a big improvement, but I
suspect that this would be a more apparent improvement than putting a
better card after your Mackie mixer. Even a $500 preamp, while
different from your Mackie, (I'm thinking maybe the FMR Really Nice
Mic Preamp or something else with both character and good sound) might
be a better place to spend your money.

[Scott Dorsey]

Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface?

Not really. Start looking in the $2500 per channel range for "high end"
converters.

I am looking for a more
studio quality sound card to replace my M.Audio192 pci card i am using
right now.

Why? What don't you like about it?

The only thing i record analog would be my vocal. I
also use mackie 1202 vlz. I don't know what really suites my need
here. My budget is around $500 cdn.

If you're looking for better vocal sounds, $500 spent on a better preamp
or a better microphone will probably buy you more than on better
converters. And $500 spent on room treatment may help even more.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Jan 10, 5:54 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 10, 3:05 am, wrote:

Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface?

It depends on your standards. I wouldn't consider it to be one, but
it's probably OK for anyone who would ask such a question.

I am looking for a more
studio quality sound card to replace my M.Audio192 pci card i am using
right now.

I'd suggest that you look beyond the FireBox if quality of the
converters and analog circuitry is your primary concern. But if by
"quality" you mean more inputs and outputs, that's a different story.

The only thing i record analog would be my vocal. I
also use mackie 1202 vlz. I don't know what really suites my need
here. My budget is around $500 cdn.

I'd suggest that you look into a Lynx card, but with the Mackie VLZ as
a front end, I doubt that you'd notice a significant difference with a
change in sound cards. The M-Audio card is a good match in quality
with the Mackie mixer. Get a much better sound card without a much
better mic preamp (and maybe mic, and maybe room) and you won't see
much of an improvement.

Same the other way around, in general. Put a $2000 mic preamp ahead of
your M-Audio card and you may not notice a big improvement, but I
suspect that this would be a more apparent improvement than putting a
better card after your Mackie mixer. Even a $500 preamp, while
different from your Mackie, (I'm thinking maybe the FMR Really Nice
Mic Preamp or something else with both character and good sound) might
be a better place to spend your money.



Thanks Mike for the quick response, my main concern is overall sound
quality of my music at a professional level, not the number of inputs
and outputs. What do u think of Fire Studio Project by Presonus.
Would that take care of the preamp and sound card situation for me?
It is also within my budget. Would that be more superior than M-Audio
and Mackie?

[Richard Crowley]

wrote ...
Thanks Mike for the quick response, my main concern is overall sound
quality of my music at a professional level, not the number of inputs
and outputs. What do u think of Fire Studio Project by Presonus.
Would that take care of the preamp and sound card situation for me?
It is also within my budget. Would that be more superior than M-Audio
and Mackie?

They have been trying to tell you that the same amount of
money spent on a microphone or on the acoustics of your
recording space would make a much bigger difference in the
recorded sound than ANY change of preamp or converter.

"overall sound quality" is very fuzzy, ill-defined target.
Make a list of top three *specific things* about your
recordings that you would like to improve (or change).

[John Albert]

Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface? I am looking
for a more studio quality sound card to replace my
M.Audio192 pci card i am using right now. I am using sonar6
producer, and mostly recording vertual instruments. The
only thing i record analog would be my vocal. I also use
mackie 1202 vlz. I don't know what really suites my need
here. My budget is around $500 cdn. Is external interface
better than pci cards? Can anyone help me please. I really
appreciate ur help.

I'm not a pro, and others in this forum are far more
qualified than me, but I'll offer a few comments.

I _have_ a Firebox, and I like it. It's not "high-end", but
not derisively low-end, either. It works, and works well
enough. Combined with good mics and a decent room, it will
probably yield for you fairly polished results.

I use mine with an FMR RNP (as recommended by others in this
group). Again, they work well together and provide a good
match (even in "form factor").

If you want a truly high-end but smallish form-factor
external interface, you might look at the RME Fireface 400.
But that's more $$$$. Still, combine something like the
Firebox with an FMR RNP, the right vocal mic, and the right
environment, and the results you get vis-a-vis the Fireface
might be fairly close (though I'm sure the educated ears of
this forum could discern the differences that I can't).

Whether you prefer an external interface to PCI cards is
your own choice. I tend to like the external "boxes", but
then, I'm using mine with an iMac that doesn't have PCI
slots. I do like the fact that many external interfaces are
now bundled with a software "mixer" that lets you do
latency-free monitoring during multi-tracking.

You will of course need a firewire PCI card, unless your PC
has firewire built-in (I'm a Mac guy, not versed in firewire
on the PC side). Doesn't seem like a big deal to install,
and the cards can be had for $20 or less.

I've seen the Firebox selling new in the $260 range (US) on
ebay, and down around $150 in the used range. Might be worth
picking up a used one if you wish to experiment....

- John

[[email protected]]

On Jan 10, 7:39 am, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
wrote ...

Thanks Mike for the quick response, my main concern is overall sound
quality of my music at a professional level, not the number of inputs
and outputs. What do u think of Fire Studio Project by Presonus.
Would that take care of the preamp and sound card situation for me?
It is also within my budget. Would that be more superior than M-Audio
and Mackie?

They have been trying to tell you that the same amount of
money spent on a microphone or on the acoustics of your
recording space would make a much bigger difference in the
recorded sound than ANY change of preamp or converter.

"overall sound quality" is very fuzzy, ill-defined target.
Make a list of top three *specific things* about your
recordings that you would like to improve (or change).

Thanks Richard, i am looking for more definition in sound quality. I
am not recording any live instruments. I mainly use samples,
keyboards and vertual instruments for arranging the music. How would
u compare Fire Studio Project by Presonus, and Fireface 400 by RME?

[Ethan Winer]

Chris,

Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface?

Yes. Pretty much all sound cards are high-end these days.

I am looking for a more studio quality sound card to replace my M.Audio192
pci card i am using right now.

You are barking up the wrong tree. There is NOTHING WRONG with any of the
M-Audio Audiophile series sound cards! As Richard explained, your weak link
is microphones (possibly) and room acoustics (definitely). If you have $500
you'll do far better to invest in bass traps and other acoustic treatment
than replace a perfectly good sound card for no reason.

BTW, if you need to prove this to yourself, it's easy to do. Take the best
sounding CD you have and record it into your sound card from a CD player
using the analog connections. Now play back what you recorded. It sounds
exactly the same, yes? Case closed. :-)

--Ethan

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

wrote:


[Richard Crowley asked]

"overall sound quality" is very fuzzy, ill-defined target.
Make a list of top three *specific things* about your
recordings that you would like to improve (or change).

Thanks Richard, i am looking for more definition in sound quality. I
am not recording any live instruments. I mainly use samples,
keyboards and vertual instruments for arranging the music. How would
u compare Fire Studio Project by Presonus, and Fireface 400 by RME?

What good would a better AD converter do you when all you use is canned
produce?


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message


Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface?

Probably not.

I am looking
for a more studio quality sound card to replace my
M.Audio192 pci card i am using right now.

If money is no object, try a Lynx L22

If money is an object, get pretty much the same converters etc., in one of
the eMu cards.

But let me warn you, there are other parts of your recording chain that are
lower-status and have less bragging rights than what you're using.

I am using sonar6 producer,

Not Nuendo or Pro Tools?

and mostly recording virtual instruments.

Which means that your audio interface isn't even in the record side of your
system?

The only thing i record analog would be my vocal.

Is your voice high end enough? ;-)

I also use mackie 1202 vlz.

Omygoodness. Get rid of it now! *N*O*T* *H*I*G*H* *E*N*D* for sure. If all
you're doing is recording one mic, why not get at least a RNP? How about a
really high end mic preamp? Millenia Media?

BTW, in your rush for high end bragging rights, which model Neumann mic are
you using these days?

I don't know what
really suites my need here. My budget is around $500
cdn. Is external interface better than pci cards? Can
anyone help me please. I really appreciate ur help.

If you wanted to pursue this logically, you might start out by telling us
what's wrong with your existing recordings instead of proscribing your own
medicine.

[Paul Stamler]

A couple of things you need to tell us:

What kind of microphone are you using?

What are the dimensions of the room in which you record, and what acoustic
treatments does it have, if any?

Peace,
Paul

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:25:57 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Thanks Richard, i am looking for more definition in sound quality. I
am not recording any live instruments. I mainly use samples,
keyboards and vertual instruments for arranging the music. How would
u compare Fire Studio Project by Presonus, and Fireface 400 by RME?

I think I can state with confidence that changing sound card will make
no difference whatsoever.

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Peter Larsen wrote:
wrote:


[Richard Crowley asked]

"overall sound quality" is very fuzzy, ill-defined target.
Make a list of top three *specific things* about your
recordings that you would like to improve (or change).

Thanks Richard, i am looking for more definition in sound quality. I
am not recording any live instruments. I mainly use samples,
keyboards and vertual instruments for arranging the music. How would
u compare Fire Studio Project by Presonus, and Fireface 400 by RME?

What good would a better AD converter do you when all you use is canned
produce?


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



No ****, he could do that stuff with the headphone jack on his
motherboard :-)

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

What good would a better AD converter do you when all you use is
canned produce?

No ****, he could do that stuff with the headphone jack on his
motherboard :-)

Some of those are in fact quite acceptable for GP use.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Richard Crowley]

wrote ...
Thanks Richard, i am looking for more definition in sound quality. I
am not recording any live instruments. I mainly use samples,
keyboards and vertual instruments for arranging the music. How would
u compare Fire Studio Project by Presonus, and Fireface 400 by RME?

If you are using samples, how could either of those gadgets
(or, indeed ANY sound interface) have the slightest effect
on your samples?

Is it we who don't understand what you are asking? Or is it
you who doesn't understand what the sound interface does?

What is the source of these samples? How do you know that
they need "more definition"? Perhaps you need new monitor
speakers?

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 10, 10:29 am, wrote:

my main concern is overall sound
quality of my music at a professional level,

Ho! How "professional" are you anyway? What's your experience as an
engineer, or as a muisician? If you're a serious musician, the
professional thing to do is go to a well equipped studio with a good
engineer and be a musician for a few hours. You'll get the job done
better and faster than if you agonize over what's a "professional"
piece of hardware for you to use in what I suspect is hardly a
"professional" environment.

What do u think of Fire Studio Project by Presonus.
Would that take care of the preamp and sound card situation for me?
It is also within my budget. Would that be more superior than M-Audio
and Mackie?

Nobody can tell you that. There's no practical means of measurement,
and anyone who gives you a subjective evaluation is always going to be
biased.

What's the problem with what you have? Excellent recordings have been
made with worse. Don't blame your equipment until you can actually
determine its effect on your product.

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 10, 11:25 am, wrote:

i am looking for more definition in sound quality. I
am not recording any live instruments. I mainly use samples,
keyboards and vertual instruments for arranging the music.

If that's the case, you need better monitoring, and maybe better
samples and virtual instruments. You really aren't "recording"
anything, you're just assembling and playing back. If you don't like
what you hear, either whoever made those samples didn't do a good job,
you aren't reproducing it accurately, or you haven't learned how to
mix.

Forget the sound card. Solve a real problem.

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 10, 10:29 am, wrote:

my main concern is overall sound
quality of my music at a professional level,

Ho! How "professional" are you anyway? What's your experience as an
engineer, or as a muisician? If you're a serious musician, the
professional thing to do is go to a well equipped studio with a good
engineer and be a musician for a few hours. You'll get the job done
better and faster than if you agonize over what's a "professional"
piece of hardware for you to use in what I suspect is hardly a
"professional" environment.

What do u think of Fire Studio Project by Presonus.
Would that take care of the preamp and sound card situation for me?
It is also within my budget. Would that be more superior than M-Audio
and Mackie?

Nobody can tell you that. There's no practical means of measurement,
and anyone who gives you a subjective evaluation is always going to be
biased.

What's the problem with what you have? Excellent recordings have been
made with worse. Don't blame your equipment until you can actually
determine its effect on your product.



The Beatles didn't have a sound card and they sold 1.5 billion records :-)

[Paul Stamler]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
wrote ...
Thanks Richard, i am looking for more definition in sound quality. I
am not recording any live instruments. I mainly use samples,
keyboards and vertual instruments for arranging the music. How would
u compare Fire Studio Project by Presonus, and Fireface 400 by RME?

If you are using samples, how could either of those gadgets
(or, indeed ANY sound interface) have the slightest effect
on your samples?

Is it we who don't understand what you are asking? Or is it
you who doesn't understand what the sound interface does?

He's actually made that quite clear: he's recording vocals over the samples,
and that's the source whose quality he's concerned about.

Peace,
Paul

[Sean Conolly]

wrote in message
...
Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface? I am looking for a more
studio quality sound card to replace my M.Audio192 pci card i am using
right now. I am using sonar6 producer, and mostly recording vertual
instruments. The only thing i record analog would be my vocal. I
also use mackie 1202 vlz. I don't know what really suites my need
here. My budget is around $500 cdn. Is external interface better
than pci cards? Can anyone help me please. I really appreciate ur
help.

Here's an analogy - I can buy a stack of great hammers and saws, but it
won't make me a carpenter.

The gear are just the tools for you to do the job - they won't do it for
you, and if you don't know how to do the job with the tools you have then
buying better tools won't really help. From what you've listed you should be
able to make very good recordings, if you know how to use your tools. If you
learn how to use what you have you'll know a lot more about what you need
when you start upgrading.

Sean

[Richard Crowley]

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote ...
The Beatles didn't have a sound card and they sold
1.5 billion records :-)

Mr. Rondeau makes a profound observation on what
is important here.

With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not significantly
better than it was in those days?

[Danny T]

On Jan 10, 11:40*pm, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" *wrote ...

The Beatles didn't have a sound card and they sold
1.5 billion records :-)

Mr. Rondeau makes a profound observation on what
is important here.

With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not significantly
better than it was in those days?

I'm sure I'm not the only one that knows of songs recorded in a
basement in the early 60's that are still collecting royalties today!

The people buying music decide what they like based on emotion, not
signal to noise and frequency response (I like the good stuff too but
reality here).

25 years ago I made more money with 2% of what I have today. Go
figure :-)

As for what to buy - Chris should spend more time on making the music
and even more time marketing it then he should ever worry about
equipment.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 10, 9:40 pm, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote ...

The Beatles didn't have a sound card and they sold
1.5 billion records :-)

Mr. Rondeau makes a profound observation on what
is important here.

With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not significantly
better than it was in those days?

I really thank everyone here for guiding me in the right direction.
Actually my music doesn't sound bad at all, but i always felt that it
was lacking a little bit of definition and depth that alot of people
don't care about. I am very picky when it comes to sound, so today i
purchased the RME fireface 400, and i am going to start working with
this new baby and will keep u guys posted. Btw i am mostly using M-
audio library sound samples. I again thank everyone here.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Sean Conolly wrote:

wrote in message
...

Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface? I am looking for a more
studio quality sound card to replace my M.Audio192 pci card i am
using right now. I am using sonar6 producer, and mostly recording
vertual instruments. The only thing i record analog would be my
vocal. I also use mackie 1202 vlz. I don't know what really suites
my need here. My budget is around $500 cdn. Is external interface
better than pci cards? Can anyone help me please. I really
appreciate ur help.


Microphone is an undefined variable. The first question to ask is whether
something needs to be done to he room you record in. The next is whether the
chosen mic is the best for your voice. Then you look at moving a step up the
ladder with regard to mic pre, because it may be relevant then. And THEN
you look at a better AD converter.

Replacing your AD converter now would be to waste money that are better
spent elsewhere. It may even be that the wisest way to use money is on a
classical tutor to get more power and projection wtih less effort.

Here's an analogy - I can buy a stack of great hammers and saws, but
it won't make me a carpenter.

Well put.

The gear are just the tools for you to do the job - they won't do it
for you, and if you don't know how to do the job with the tools you
have then buying better tools won't really help. From what you've
listed you should be able to make very good recordings, if you know
how to use your tools. If you learn how to use what you have you'll
know a lot more about what you need when you start upgrading.

There is a humungous amount of virtual buttons to turn in good daw software,
that too takes time to learn

Sean


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not significantly
better than it was in those days?

Do you really believe there's a lost art of microphone manufacture?

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:22:55 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

I really thank everyone here for guiding me in the right direction.
Actually my music doesn't sound bad at all, but i always felt that it
was lacking a little bit of definition and depth that alot of people
don't care about. I am very picky when it comes to sound, so today i
purchased the RME fireface 400, and i am going to start working with
this new baby and will keep u guys posted. Btw i am mostly using M-
audio library sound samples. I again thank everyone here.

OK, enjoy! A new bit of gear can often stimulated the creative
juices. And it was becoming obvious you WANTED a new soundcard, so you
were going to HAVE one, whatever advice you got :-)

But you ARE aware that this will make no difference whatsoever to
anything except the vocal track? Nothing else is coming in through
the soundcard.

You now have an alternate pair of mic preamps. After you've tried,
please report whether your vocal recordings sound any different using
MackieFireface Line In or using the Fireface mic input?

Remind me what you're using as monitor speakers?

[Arny Krueger]

"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in
message
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not
significantly better than it was in those days?

Do you really believe there's a lost art of microphone
manufacture?


(1) Microphones as we know them today, have been evolving very slowly for a
very long time. A really good 20 year old mic is still a very good mic when
compared to the best that can be obtained today.

(2) The one thing that has changed about microphones over the years is that
there has been a big improvement in price/performance at the low cost end of
the market.

[Arny Krueger]

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message

wrote in message
...
Is Fire Box a high-end recording interface? I am
looking for a more studio quality sound card to replace
my M.Audio192 pci card i am using right now. I am using
sonar6 producer, and mostly recording vertual
instruments. The only thing i record analog would be my
vocal. I also use mackie 1202 vlz. I don't know what
really suites my need here. My budget is around $500
cdn. Is external interface better than pci cards? Can
anyone help me please. I really appreciate ur help.

Here's an analogy - I can buy a stack of great hammers
and saws, but it won't make me a carpenter.

Just about anybody can pound a nail, but pounding nails well for 40 hours a
week is something that many people neither aspire to, nor could they ever
learn how to do it if they had to.

Nail guns seem to have have made pounding nails well for 40 hours a week
something that more people can step up to, and take less time.

The gear are just the tools for you to do the job - they
won't do it for you, and if you don't know how to do the
job with the tools you have then buying better tools
won't really help.

The Chinese seem to have learned how to make what used to be a good $30
hammer that now sells for under $5 if you know where to buy them.

From what you've listed you should be
able to make very good recordings, if you know how to use
your tools.

As others have observed, zillions of great recordings have been made with
equipment that performs so badly in the objective sense that today we'd
dustbin it immediately.

If you learn how to use what you have you'll
know a lot more about what you need when you start
upgrading.

Ironically, the audio component in the OPs recording system that most
profoundly affects its SQ, namely the microphone, was not specified. Then,
there's always the room he does it in.

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:44:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Do you really believe there's a lost art of microphone
manufacture?


(1) Microphones as we know them today, have been evolving very slowly for a
very long time. A really good 20 year old mic is still a very good mic when
compared to the best that can be obtained today.

You're still hedging slightly :-) Some would say there are old
microphones (maybe much more than 20 years old) that cannot be
equalled today. Do you agree?

[Scott Dorsey]

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

The Beatles didn't have a sound card and they sold 1.5 billion records :-)

Sure, but I'd trade a sound card for Geoff Emerick any day too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in
message
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:44:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Do you really believe there's a lost art of microphone
manufacture?


(1) Microphones as we know them today, have been
evolving very slowly for a very long time. A really
good 20 year old mic is still a very good mic when
compared to the best that can be obtained today.

You're still hedging slightly :-) Some would say there
are old microphones (maybe much more than 20 years old)
that cannot be equalled today. Do you agree?

I plead ignorance. As close to high end microphones that I've ever had to
work with freely were DPA 4007s.

Some of the mics that were considered to be among the best 20 years ago
appear to still be made, sold and widely respected.

[Scott Dorsey]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote ...
The Beatles didn't have a sound card and they sold
1.5 billion records :-)

Mr. Rondeau makes a profound observation on what
is important here.

With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not significantly
better than it was in those days?

The room.

As far as equipment goes, it's interesting. The highest quality equipment
available today is a whole lot better than the highest quality equipment
available in 1970. But the average run of the mill equipment that people
use for a typical production tends to be much worse. That's not because
of a chance in technology so much as a change in economics.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:03:15 +0000, Laurence Payne
NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:44:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Do you really believe there's a lost art of microphone
manufacture?


(1) Microphones as we know them today, have been evolving very slowly for a
very long time. A really good 20 year old mic is still a very good mic when
compared to the best that can be obtained today.

You're still hedging slightly :-) Some would say there are old
microphones (maybe much more than 20 years old) that cannot be
equalled today. Do you agree?

Cannot be equalled, or nobody would want to equal? The question is,
what is a good mic? There are old designs with their own quirky sound
that generations have grown up with, and are familiar with. Maybe that
makes them great mics. Generally, when you look objectively at how
they perform, their frequency response and SNR are decidedly on the
poor side. The modern microphone manufacturer is certainly physically
able to make mics that are objectively far better than anything more
than 20 years old. Materials have improved, and manufacturing
techniques can be far more accurate.

As has been pointed out, costs (and prices in consequence) have
dropped through the floor in the last ten years or so, so how do you
decide what you should be comparing with what? An Omega watch may cost
ten grand, but it is outperformed easily by a ten dollar Swatch. How
do you assess the relative worth?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not significantly
better than it was in those days?

Do you really believe there's a lost art of microphone manufacture?

Not at all. However, there are a bunch of microphone manufacturing
methods that remain proprietary to a small number of manufacturers.

There are certainly more good microphones being made than there were
in 1970. But, there are also a hell of a lot more bad ones being made
too, and the increase in bad ones is probably a couple orders of magnitude
than the increase in good ones. Mass production will do that for you.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

You're still hedging slightly :-) Some would say there are old
microphones (maybe much more than 20 years old) that cannot be
equalled today. Do you agree?

There are lots of them that cannot be equalled at a reasonable price
point.

In addition, there are a few microphones for which the aging process
results in a particular kind of sound that some people like. I refer
here to things like the U47s with PVC diaphragms that lose their
plasticity. What people like are the artifacts, and it's hard to
reproduce those.

You could build a BK-11 today, for instance, but it would cost millions.
At least, that's what Wes Dooley has been telling me for the decade or so
that I have been bugging him to make a BK-11 clone.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Boris Lau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
You're still hedging slightly :-) Some would say there are old
microphones (maybe much more than 20 years old) that cannot be
equalled today. Do you agree?

Well, that wasn't claimed here, at least not in this thread:

Richard Crowley wrote:
With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not significantly
better than it was in those days?

not significantly better does not mean worse.

Boris

[Richard Crowley]

wrote ...
I really thank everyone here for guiding me in the right direction.
Actually my music doesn't sound bad at all, but i always felt that it
was lacking a little bit of definition and depth that alot of people
don't care about. I am very picky when it comes to sound, so today i
purchased the RME fireface 400, and i am going to start working with
this new baby and will keep u guys posted. Btw i am mostly using M-
audio library sound samples. I again thank everyone here.

Alas, you seem to either have not understood the advice, or you
just went out and bought a new sound gadget because that is what
you wanted without regard to whether it had anything to do with
your issue. But perhaps the psychological effect of having a shiny
new toy will make it "sound" better. Good luck.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Laurence Payne wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:40:21 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

With the possible exception of the microphones, is there
ANY part of our signal chain today that is not significantly
better than it was in those days?

Do you really believe there's a lost art of microphone manufacture?

The answer is: the singing.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 11, 9:14 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

There are certainly more good microphones being made than there were
in 1970. But, there are also a hell of a lot more bad ones being made
too, and the increase in bad ones is probably a couple orders of magnitude
than the increase in good ones. Mass production will do that for you.

One could say the same thing about recorded music.

[Paul Stamler]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:

You're still hedging slightly :-) Some would say there are old
microphones (maybe much more than 20 years old) that cannot be
equalled today. Do you agree?

There are lots of them that cannot be equalled at a reasonable price
point.

In addition, there are a few microphones for which the aging process
results in a particular kind of sound that some people like. I refer
here to things like the U47s with PVC diaphragms that lose their
plasticity. What people like are the artifacts, and it's hard to
reproduce those.

It's also the case that the original U 47's quirky sound depended on a
particular tube, the VF14, and those have been discontinued for something
like half a century.

By the way, some folks also like the sound of unaged M7 capsules (the guts
of the U47), and happily Microtech Gefell still makes them and puts them in
very good microphones.

Peace,
Paul