[voxguy]

Hi, trying to get replace some old cables for my VO studio and looking
at usual names
like mogami, belden, canare... to replace long used low-end xlr cords
bought over the
years. Primarily run condenser mics with short run of abt. 20-25 feet
max. Any
suggestion appreciated as to who might have the best buys on pre-
assembled
xlr-xlr pro cables.

Also, have used a few Whirlwinds in use and in shopping around saw
some comment
abt. these not being true balanced, and someone saying it gave him a
problem
used w/ a condenser? Couldn't figure out what the issue might be
there.

Glad to hear any advice on respected name and best price suppliers for
broadcast
quality pro cables.

Thanx!

Mike

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 5, 7:19 pm, voxguy wrote:
Hi, trying to get replace some old cables for my VO studio and looking
at usual names
like mogami, belden, canare... t

Primarily run condenser mics with short run of abt. 20-25 feet
max. Any
suggestion appreciated as to who might have the best buys on pre-
assembled
xlr-xlr pro cables.

It doesn't make a damn bit of difference for your application as long
as you buy cable assemblies with decent quality cable and connectors.
You can get pre-assembled Mogami and Canare cable most often with
Neutrik connectors from several sources. Gepco has their own cable
which is just fine and does a good job of building cables both in
standard and custom lengths.

Don't get too worked up over this. By the way, what's wrong with your
existing cables? I have cables that are 50 years old that still work
fine.

[Richard Crowley]

"voxguy" wrote ...
Hi, trying to get replace some old cables for my VO studio

Why? I'm still using cables I built 40~45 years ago.

and looking at usual names like mogami, belden, canare...
to replace long used low-end xlr cords bought over the
years. Primarily run condenser mics with short run of abt.
20-25 feet max.

Those of us who do location recording average mic runs
nearly 10x that distance. Your 20~30 ft is a piece of cake.

Any suggestion appreciated as to who might have the best
buys on pre-assembled xlr-xlr pro cables.

I make my own cables, so dunno what the prices are for
pre-assembled. If you want something reasonably priced,
just shop for price and recognizable brand for the cable
and vendor. And don't forget to make sure you are getting
decent connectors, not some unreliable far-east knock-off.
That is one reason I make my own cables, I know the
source of the components (like Neutrik or Switchcraft
connectors, etc.)

Also, have used a few Whirlwinds in use and in shopping
around saw some comment abt. these not being true
balanced,

Certainly Whirlwind makes both balanced (XLR, etc.) and
unbalanced cables. If you are saying that Whirlwind is
selling XLR mic cables using unbalanced cable, that is
highly unlikely to the point of being absurd. Unless, of
course it is a cheap knock-off counterfeit.

and someone saying it gave him a problem used w/ a
condenser? Couldn't figure out what the issue might be
there.

Sounds ridiculous to me. They likely had some other
problem and are blaming it on the cable.

Glad to hear any advice on respected name and best
price suppliers for broadcast quality pro cables.

I buy bulk cable and connectors from places like
Markertek and Redco. Markertek sells the assembled
cables like you see in the retail stores (overpriced IMHO).
http://www.markertek.com/

Redco, OTOH, sells all the raw materials (bulk cable
on rolls, connectors, panels, stage boxes, etc.) and they
will also make cables with your choice of wire and
connectors for a modest (and reasonable IMHO ) price.
They specialize in cables. Recommended.
http://www.redco.com/

[Richard Crowley]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote ...
About a year ago, I asked this group about the desirability
of star-quad, and there didn't seem to be alot of enthusiasm.
But since that time, I have formed my own conclusion. While
ten years ago, star-quad might have been deemed useful only
in situations where dimmers and broadcast equipment created
an extreme situation, life is different now. The ever-present GSM
cell phone of AT&T and T-mobile induces electrical noise even
in rather short, medium level connections.

Have you really done an A/B comparison test with "conventional"
vs. star-quad cable under identical circumstances? It is not
clear to me how just the star-quad configuration of the cable
could have that much effect on CPI (cell-phone interference).

Mike level is not even medium level. So the potential for
extremely damaging cellphone interactions can persist over
a great distance. I think I would go with star-quad exclusively
now.

What is your average cable run? Note that star-quad is
significantly higher capacitance which may affect its
performance in long runs. (Or maybe the higher cap.
is "filtering" some of the RF? :-)

Canare makes star-quad; I think there is at least one other
manufacturer, but the name escapes me.

Redco also sells quad cable from Gotham and Mogami,
but Carare apparently has the name "Star-Quad" as a
registered trademark.

[[email protected]]

You are stirring up some passionate discussions. "My wire is bigger
than yours!"
Whatever works for you.
Here's mine:

http://vomictest.blogspot.com/2007/1...in-cables.html

[geezer[_2_]]

The knucklehead who had a problem with the condensers probably had
mishandled his cables and damaged the shield. This can be a problem w/
phantom power.

Whrlwind makes perfectly good cables, I used all Whirlwind when I did
an install for a friend some few years ago, including custom building
a transformer-iso split snake. Everything still works fine for him.

Starquad cable can be useful if you have interference problems, other
than that it's a non-issue.

-glenn


On Jan 5, 7:19*pm, voxguy wrote:
Hi, trying to get replace some old cables for my VO studio and looking
at usual names
like mogami, belden, canare... to replace long used low-end xlr cords
bought over the
years. *Primarily run condenser mics with short run of abt. 20-25 feet
max. Any
suggestion appreciated as to who might have the best buys on pre-
assembled
xlr-xlr pro cables.

Also, have used a few Whirlwinds in use and in shopping around saw
some comment
abt. these not being true balanced, *and someone saying it gave him a
problem
used w/ a condenser? * Couldn't figure out what the issue might be
there.

Glad to hear any advice on respected name and best price suppliers for
broadcast
quality pro cables.

Thanx!

Mike

[Ty Ford]

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 19:19:17 -0500, voxguy wrote
(in article
):

Hi, trying to get replace some old cables for my VO studio and looking
at usual names
like mogami, belden, canare... to replace long used low-end xlr cords
bought over the
years. Primarily run condenser mics with short run of abt. 20-25 feet
max. Any
suggestion appreciated as to who might have the best buys on pre-
assembled
xlr-xlr pro cables.

Also, have used a few Whirlwinds in use and in shopping around saw
some comment
abt. these not being true balanced, and someone saying it gave him a
problem
used w/ a condenser? Couldn't figure out what the issue might be
there.

Glad to hear any advice on respected name and best price suppliers for
broadcast
quality pro cables.

Thanx!

Mike

Lewis Frisch at Gotham USA may still have some of that reel left with the
brown GAC-3. I got 4 -25' and 2 -50' from him just after AES.

Google Gotham audio in, oh heck,

http://www.gothamaudiousa.com/contact.htm

Ask him about the NOS brown cable with connectors he sold me.

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't get too worked up over this. By the way, what's wrong with your
existing cables? I have cables that are 50 years old that still work
fine.

I can fix that. One gig with an act that drives a riding mower across
the stage and you'll have plenty of cable replacement to do.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't get too worked up over this. By the way, what's wrong with your
existing cables? I have cables that are 50 years old that still work
fine.

I can fix that. One gig with an act that drives a riding mower across
the stage and you'll have plenty of cable replacement to do.

Thats just surreal. OTOH, a nice way to get all new cables
paid by somebody.

Hope I manage to continue to avoid any gigs involving powered
cutting equipment (including chain-saws here in the Northwest),
or even requiring ear-plugs, for that matter.

[Scott Dorsey]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't get too worked up over this. By the way, what's wrong with your
existing cables? I have cables that are 50 years old that still work
fine.

I can fix that. One gig with an act that drives a riding mower across
the stage and you'll have plenty of cable replacement to do.

Thats just surreal. OTOH, a nice way to get all new cables
paid by somebody.

The band was called "Scrubbing Bubbles." To be fair, they marked out
a path for the riding mower with spike tape, kept all the cables out
of the area, and drove with the blade shut off.

Hope I manage to continue to avoid any gigs involving powered
cutting equipment (including chain-saws here in the Northwest),
or even requiring ear-plugs, for that matter.

I have had to mike chainsaws too. Funny thing, they aren't as loud as
bagpipes....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 6, 10:25 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

I have had to mike chainsaws too. Funny thing, they aren't as loud as
bagpipes....

No less musical, either.

[voxguy]

Thanks for the input everybody! Much appreciated
as always,

Mike


On Jan 6, 1:13 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Jan 6, 10:25 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

I have had to mike chainsaws too. Funny thing, they aren't as loud as
bagpipes....

No less musical, either.

[voxguy]

Re, why replace cables? Just a matter of replacing some that are
definitely bad, others that I suspect are intermittent and / or
demonstrate higher noise floor/susceptibility to some interference at
times... It's a hodge podge of stuff that's been in use for decades
and i've been meaning to get around to getting a few of these replaced
for about that long... Didn't mean to suggest i was replacing em just
'cuz they're "old."

ANyway, thanks again for all the input. Agreed, nothing to get too
worked up about: )

M

[Mike Clayton]

On Jan 7, 4:25*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

I have had to mike chainsaws too. *Funny thing, they aren't as loud as
bagpipes....
--scott

Drifting OT here a bit, but some years ago now I took a sound level
meter to a pipe band practice hall at the request of the pipe major. I
measured 108dB, a weighted, at the pipers' left (drone side) ears,
and 112dB, a weighted, 6 inches away from a side drum head. After two
hours in that environment my ears were roaring away to themselves.
Fortunately they recovered overnight.

Now when I play my bagpipes inside, with or without the band, I use
industrial grade ear plugs. The music is way loud these days and I'm
too old (65+) to lose any more hearing!

You can freely discuss the comparative musical properties of bagpipes,
chainsaws, saxophones, violas etc. I've given up worrying!

Mike

[Scott Fraser]

Now when I play my bagpipes inside, with or without the band, I use industrial grade ear plugs. The music is way loud these days and I'm too old (65+) to lose any more hearing!

The piper I work with regularly always uses plugs when playing
indoors, & in-ear-monitors when playing outdoors. And he was formerly
in a punk band. He says his pipes are louder than his Marshall was.

Scott Fraser

[Mark]

Have you really done an A/B comparison test with "conventional"
vs. star-quad cable under identical circumstances? *It is not
clear to me how just the star-quad configuration of the cable
could have that much effect on CPI (cell-phone interference).


Exactly correct.

Wire twisting is not going to be very effective against RF
interference 100MHz.

Wire twisting can sometimes be effective against low frequency (i.e.
60Hz) MAGNETIC interference.

Mark

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 06:31:57 -0800 (PST), Mark
wrote:

Wire twisting is not going to be very effective against RF
interference 100MHz.

Wire twisting can sometimes be effective against low frequency (i.e.
60Hz) MAGNETIC interference.

Maybe a useful way of thinking about the issue is to focus,
as you have, on the twisting itself. What is the function
of the twisting, and by extension, of twisting two paralleled
pairs?

It's to make the various wires *average* to being in the
same physical location as each other, as much as possible
for any particular offending wavelength. Averaging to the
same physical location means that offending voltages will
average to the same amounts on both polarities of signal
wires in equal amounts, allowing removal by the differential
receiver.


At very low offending frequencies large (in comparison to wire
spacings) wavelengths require little or no twisting or any other
effort to have the signal wires effectively "close" to each other,
and so being impressed with the same offending voltages.

But at significantly higher frequencies (smaller wavelengths), or
curved signal paths, or with nearby (non-planar) offending sources,
the averaging gets progressively more flawed. Twisting must be tighter
for the same averaging, and now doubled symmetrical pairs can
improve averaging.

And at RF (using your example of 100MHZ) the differential receiver
isn't differential anymore, and all hell breaks loose. Twisting
doesn't much matter, and shielding and filtering are our only
hopes. Untwisted and unbalanced coaxial cables are enough if all
interesting wavelengths are very small and a differential receiver
can't be assumed.


Very interesting topic. Much thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck

[Fletch]

On Jan 6, 6:38 am, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...

Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't get too worked up over this. By the way, what's wrong with your
existing cables? I have cables that are 50 years old that still work
fine.

I can fix that. One gig with an act that drives a riding mower across
the stage and you'll have plenty of cable replacement to do.

Thats just surreal. OTOH, a nice way to get all new cables
paid by somebody.

Hope I manage to continue to avoid any gigs involving powered
cutting equipment (including chain-saws here in the Northwest),
or even requiring ear-plugs, for that matter.

Oh, come on!

Remember Junior Cadillac and their chain saw solo blues song? That was
classic NW stuff there.

Cadenza...

Chainsaw rev up...

Cadenza...

Chainsaw rev up...

Repeat through end of progression

Brilliant!

--Fletch