[Jack]

Is there any REAL difference performance-wise in the different brands of
mic cables? I've noted the recent thread on Monster cables and the more
I read about some of these expensive cables, the more I think they're
snake oil. I can see quad shielding for rf work, but audio?

Ditto for xlr connectors - Neutrik are made to sound like they're the
best thing since sliced bread. Are they really THAT good? I've got the
soldering chops so making my own cables isn't a problem. If I go that
way, what's a good bulk cable brand?

--
Jack N2MPU
Proud NRA Life Member

[Scott Dorsey]

Jack wrote:
Is there any REAL difference performance-wise in the different brands of
mic cables? I've noted the recent thread on Monster cables and the more
I read about some of these expensive cables, the more I think they're
snake oil. I can see quad shielding for rf work, but audio?

Yes. Some cables have better RF rejection, while other cables are more
flexible. Some cables have lower capacitance, making them a better choice
for long runs. There are cables that are packed with heavy fibres
too, for people who swing microphones around and wreck normal cables.

The reason there are so many different kinds of cable is because there
are so many different cable applications.

Ditto for xlr connectors - Neutrik are made to sound like they're the
best thing since sliced bread. Are they really THAT good? I've got the
soldering chops so making my own cables isn't a problem. If I go that
way, what's a good bulk cable brand?

Neutrik connectors are fine. Switchcraft connectors are fine. Amphenol
connectors are fine. Cheap Chinese crap is not fine and will become
damaged.

Good cable brands include Gepco, Belden, Mogami, Canare, and Gotham. All
make good cable, but they all make dozens of different kinds of cable for
different applications.

For an installed situation you want a foil-shielded cable with insulation
that passes vertical flame test. For a line from the mike to the wall or
to a snake, foil shields will fail from being flexed too much, so you want
a braid or served shield. Served shields will give you better flexibility,
braid shields will take more punishment.

If you are working in places where RF pickup is an issue, star quad
configurations can be a big win and can reduce RF problems a lot. But
you get more capacitance between conductors than you do with a single
pair, so you can't run it as long. If you're working at an AM broadcast
site, star quad is essential. If you're doing 2,000 foot runs out to
a remote truck, star quad is bad news.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

nebulax wrote:

I think Mogami and Canare cable sounds as good or better than anything else
out there, and they don't have the stratospheric prices that Monster et al
charge. Neutrik plugs are great, but as far as them 'sounding better', it's
hard to say.

Cheap connectors fail. Cheap connectors fail and musicians start screaming
at you about how they failed, but nobody can hear them because the cable
failed. Then promoters start screaming at you. Promoters with guns.
Audience members with baseball bats. And they're all coming after you.
They're coming after you because YOUR connector failed.

Buy good connectors. Canon, Amphenol, Switchcraft, Neutrik, whatever
you want. But don't buy crappy connectors that fail, because when
connectors fail people get angry.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Paul Stamler]

"Jack" wrote in message
...
Is there any REAL difference performance-wise in the different brands of
mic cables? I've noted the recent thread on Monster cables and the more
I read about some of these expensive cables, the more I think they're
snake oil. I can see quad shielding for rf work, but audio?

Yes, if you're working around RF fields, and these days, you're doing that a
lot.

Ditto for xlr connectors - Neutrik are made to sound like they're the
best thing since sliced bread. Are they really THAT good? I've got the
soldering chops so making my own cables isn't a problem. If I go that
way, what's a good bulk cable brand?

Yes, they're that good. The main improvement, for me, is the strain relief,
which beats the chops off the standard Switchcraft-type connector. Neutriks
also are screwless, which means you don't lose the screws because they don't
exist.

I gather Switchcraft is now introducing imitation Neutriks; I'm sticking to
the originals, thanks.

Peace,
Paul

[Frank Stearns]

"Paul Stamler" writes:

"Jack" wrote in message
...

Ditto for xlr connectors - Neutrik are made to sound like they're the
best thing since sliced bread. Are they really THAT good? I've got the
soldering chops so making my own cables isn't a problem. If I go that
way, what's a good bulk cable brand?

Yes, they're that good. The main improvement, for me, is the strain relief,
which beats the chops off the standard Switchcraft-type connector. Neutriks
also are screwless, which means you don't lose the screws because they don't
exist.

Couldn't agree more. I'd done 1000s of switchcrafts over the years, was introduced
to Neutriks a while back and quickly learned to like them for the reasons cited
above.

I use the flash gold Nuetriks for a slight edge in anti-crud connections (and also
the black shells, which is a part of my "being invisible" with location
recording). They're only a few cents more at Markertek, and last I checked they had
great prices on the Neutriks in general.

I suspect that the classic A3F/A3M switchcraft construction overall might be
a little more rugged, but for "normal" wear and tear the Neutriks are fine. (I do
classical and acoustic gigs, not metal and hiphop, so the gear gets less abuse.)

I use Gepco cable, and it's okay sonically; my main complaint is how incredibly
easily the stuff tangles and kinks -- virtually all their mic cable and even some of
the snakes seem to be this way. Never seen anything like it. If I had it to do again
I'd probably look at other cables, though the Gepco products do offer very good
price/performance.

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio

--

[jakdedert]

Jack wrote:
Is there any REAL difference performance-wise in the different brands of
mic cables? I've noted the recent thread on Monster cables and the more
I read about some of these expensive cables, the more I think they're
snake oil. I can see quad shielding for rf work, but audio?

Ditto for xlr connectors - Neutrik are made to sound like they're the
best thing since sliced bread. Are they really THAT good? I've got the
soldering chops so making my own cables isn't a problem. If I go that
way, what's a good bulk cable brand?

I've had mic cable on gigs, that--if you flexed the cable with the gain
up--you could hear a kind of 'squishing' sound in the audio. I assume
it was from varying capacitance or something similar. I just tossed it
to the side and told the sound company to give me another. FWIW, as I
recall, it also looked and felt cheap...don't recall looking for a brand
name. It was something that I wouldn't buy based on the look and feel
(and size...it was skinny) alone.

I bought a bag of Neutrik knockoffs for some non-critical application a
while back. They've held up OK for that, but dimensionally they suck.
They're very hard to plug and unplug...like they're too big to fit
standard XLR plugs/jacks.

jak

[Risto Sainio]

Paul Stamler wrote:

"Jack" wrote in message
...
Is there any REAL difference performance-wise in the different brands of
mic cables? I've noted the recent thread on Monster cables and the more
I read about some of these expensive cables, the more I think they're
snake oil. I can see quad shielding for rf work, but audio?
snip

Yes, they're that good. The main improvement, for me, is the strain
relief, which beats the chops off the standard Switchcraft-type connector.
Neutriks also are screwless, which means you don't lose the screws because
they don't exist.

And the other way around: you don't lose tools needed to open the
connector...



I gather Switchcraft is now introducing imitation Neutriks; I'm sticking
to the originals, thanks.

Peace,
Paul

risto

[Scott Dorsey]

jakdedert wrote:

I've had mic cable on gigs, that--if you flexed the cable with the gain
up--you could hear a kind of 'squishing' sound in the audio. I assume
it was from varying capacitance or something similar. I just tossed it
to the side and told the sound company to give me another. FWIW, as I
recall, it also looked and felt cheap...don't recall looking for a brand
name. It was something that I wouldn't buy based on the look and feel
(and size...it was skinny) alone.

This is called triboelectric noise. Since the noise produced is fairly
low current, having a low-Z microphone and a low-Z preamp input minimizes
it considerably. If you notice it on a stage install with a dynamic mike,
it's a very, very loosely-packed cable indeed.

A good cable will be tightly packed so the conductors cannot shift when
the cable is moved.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Jan 1, 2:52 am, jakdedert wrote:

I bought a bag of Neutrik knockoffs for some non-critical application a
while back. They've held up OK for that, but dimensionally they suck.
They're very hard to plug and unplug...like they're too big to fit
standard XLR plugs/jacks.

I had that problem with genuine Neutrik XLR style connectors of 10
years or so ago. That's why I still buy Switchcraft.

[Dave O'Heare]

"Jack" wrote in message
...
Is there any REAL difference performance-wise in the different brands of
mic cables?

I've had some problems recently with Canare L-4E6S. Specifically, a couple
of cables I made up have gotten very noisy (admittedly, after being tromped
on a few times). Still, I'd hoped that they'd hold up longer than a couple
of gigs.

Dave O'H
oheareATmagmaDOTca

[Scott Dorsey]

Dave O'Heare wrote:
I've had some problems recently with Canare L-4E6S. Specifically, a couple
of cables I made up have gotten very noisy (admittedly, after being tromped
on a few times). Still, I'd hoped that they'd hold up longer than a couple
of gigs.

Noisy, how? Popping, hissing, rumbling? When you shake it, step on it,
or what?

You sure the problem isn't the connectors?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Dave O'Heare]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Dave O'Heare wrote:
I've had some problems recently with Canare L-4E6S. Specifically, a
couple
of cables I made up have gotten very noisy (admittedly, after being
tromped
on a few times).

Noisy, how? Popping, hissing, rumbling? When you shake it, step on it,
or what?

Hissing and popping, and low output. Almost all the time, definitely when
moving/shaking the cable. Made me wonder if the cable was a fake (I bought
it from a local surplus place, now out of business), but it looks right --
shiny black finish, clear bright white print.

You sure the problem isn't the connectors?

First thing I checked, and looks fine. Solder joints all solid, shiny
clean. These are the newest version of the Neutrik XLR, um, NC3[MF]-XX I
think.

As an aside, I'm not sure I'm completely happy with the change to the
Neutrik strain relief, but I haven't exactly figured out *why* I'm not
happy.

Dave O'Heare
oheareATmagmaDOTca

[Scott Dorsey]

Dave O'Heare wrote:

Noisy, how? Popping, hissing, rumbling? When you shake it, step on it,
or what?

Hissing and popping, and low output. Almost all the time, definitely when
moving/shaking the cable. Made me wonder if the cable was a fake (I bought
it from a local surplus place, now out of business), but it looks right --
shiny black finish, clear bright white print.

Something is broke. Get out the ohmmeter and check it. Low output means
substantial leakage between conductors, or a broken conductor. Check and
see everything pins through.

Hissing and popping issues can be all kinds of things, including water
trapped under the jacket from the cable being stored submerged. But
low output from a low-Z microphone means something is broke enough to
tell on an ohmmeter.

If you can verify it is broke, a fox and hound (borrow one from your
local telephone guy) will let you figure out where it's broke within
a few seconds. Cables normally break near the ends, but SOMETIMES
they break in the middle and if that happens you want to find out why.

First thing I checked, and looks fine. Solder joints all solid, shiny
clean. These are the newest version of the Neutrik XLR, um, NC3[MF]-XX I
think.

Even the shield connection?

As an aside, I'm not sure I'm completely happy with the change to the
Neutrik strain relief, but I haven't exactly figured out *why* I'm not
happy.

I still like the old Canon two-screw ones. People think I am crazy because
they complain they always lose the screws. This is true, but they sure
are rugged when the screws are in place.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."