[Doc]

I've been fooling around with the AnalogX vocal remover and wonder if
there's any trick to getting around losing most of the drum track
along with the vocal? The point? Just an exercise in playing around
with sound.

I tried creating a narrow width bandpass with the graphic EQ in
Soundforge to see if there was some spot where the drums really stuck
out and the vocal doesn't with the idea of mixing that with a vocal-
removed track, but that went nowhere. The vocal and drums seem to be
the most prominent within about the same range.

Are there any tricks other than creating a midi drum track that
mimicks the original converting to .wav and mixing them - obviously a
ridiculous amount of work, or simply buying a Karaoke CD?

[Scott Dorsey]

Doc wrote:
I've been fooling around with the AnalogX vocal remover and wonder if
there's any trick to getting around losing most of the drum track
along with the vocal? The point? Just an exercise in playing around
with sound.

This is basically a digital copy of the original Thompson Vocal Eliminator.
Everything in the center of the soundstage disappears. This means the
vocals, the lead guitar, and sometimes some of the drums.

I tried creating a narrow width bandpass with the graphic EQ in
Soundforge to see if there was some spot where the drums really stuck
out and the vocal doesn't with the idea of mixing that with a vocal-
removed track, but that went nowhere. The vocal and drums seem to be
the most prominent within about the same range.

The original Vocal Eliminator had a lowpass, so the bottom end would pass
through unchanged. This kept the kick from disappearing and sometimes the
bass. But anything else in the center goes away.

Are there any tricks other than creating a midi drum track that
mimicks the original converting to .wav and mixing them - obviously a
ridiculous amount of work, or simply buying a Karaoke CD?

What folks used to do was just cut a new drum track or a new lead guitar
track, playing live to tape.

I remember working at a radio station where they took the Beatles'
Revolution, cut out the center, lost the vocal and the lead guitar,
then had a guy go back and play the lead track while listening to the
original track in the cans. Then we added vocals, which rather than
denigrate revolution instead urged everyone to listen to a particular
radio show. Some callers thought it actually was the Beatles. All done
on a 4-track Scully.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Doc]

On Dec 22, 3:46*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

I remember working at a radio station where they took the Beatles'
Revolution, cut out the center, lost the vocal and the lead guitar,
then had a guy go back and play the lead track while listening to the
original track in the cans. *Then we added vocals, which rather than
denigrate revolution instead urged everyone to listen to a particular
radio show. *Some callers thought it actually was the Beatles. *All done
on a 4-track Scully.


So, basically the same theme - the only way is to re-create the
missing material.

Here's something I came up with that's yielding passable results. This
particular song relies on a lot of rim taps and bass kicks. There are
instances where the taps kicks are there without the vocal, so I clone
the track, and surgically isolate some of these occurences, leaving a
bit of a tail on it and apply fade envelopes to the decay to smooth
things out.

Then just paste in copies where needed, in some cases I can paste in
chunks of several occurrences where it's repeated over and over.

By appling a reverb aux effect to the new "tap track" and adjusting
the levels, I can reasonably approximate the original drum track and
mix it in with the vocal-removed track. Wouldn't work on every track
but seems to work on this one.

[Scott Dorsey]

Doc wrote:

Here's something I came up with that's yielding passable results. This
particular song relies on a lot of rim taps and bass kicks. There are
instances where the taps kicks are there without the vocal, so I clone
the track, and surgically isolate some of these occurences, leaving a
bit of a tail on it and apply fade envelopes to the decay to smooth
things out.

Sure, and you can paste them into place wherever they are needed.
Frankly, though, that seems like a lot more work than just sitting
a drummer friend down and getting him to play the part.

By appling a reverb aux effect to the new "tap track" and adjusting
the levels, I can reasonably approximate the original drum track and
mix it in with the vocal-removed track. Wouldn't work on every track
but seems to work on this one.

Every track is different, and that's why the Vocal Eliminator is a
catch as catch can situation. You'll find some recordings with lots
of stereo reverb or real stereo ambience on the vocal... you can eliminate
the dry vocal but the ghostly ambience stays behind.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ethan Winer]

This is basically a digital copy of the original Thompson Vocal
Eliminator.

Not so! The Thomson unit is FAR more sophisticated than the simplistic
AnalogX plug-in. Also more capable than the AnalogX is Vogone:

http://www.mtu.com/basics/vocal-eliminator.htm

Another way to do this is with a surround receiver that can decode Dolby
ProLogic. The cheapest receiver Costco sells will do this. Dolby ProLogic II
uses sophisticated methods to segregate left, center, and right channels,
losing as little content as possible. Even the older ProLogic I does a MUCH
better job than the AnalogX plug-in.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Doc,

I've been fooling around with the AnalogX vocal remover

That's a very simplistic plug-in. If you cut the low end a bit on one
channel before combining, you'll avoid reducing the bass and kick which are
usually panned in the middle too. Full explanation he

http://www.ethanwiner.com/novocals.html

--Ethan