[Boris Lau]

Hi there,

currently I have only two channels with ok preamps, the type that's
built into the Yamaha DM2000 consoles. I'd like to buy a preamp with 8
channels. I want low noise, no strong coloration so it's "all purpose",
and preferably with A/D option for ADAT output. I have looked at these
so far:

RME Octamic II (1249 EUR)
Mackie Onyx 800R (1175 EUR)
Focusrite Octopre (977 EUR)
Presonus Digimax FS (739 EUR)
Focusrite Octopre LE (485 EUR)
Behringer ADA8000 (235 EUR)

I'd really like to stay in the middle of that price range, but I want to
get something I won't throw out too soon. As with my previous mic
testings, I'd like to narrow down the list to 2-3 devices and then do a
comparison myself.

I'd be happy about any advice on what to try and what to avoid. Is the
Behringer any good?

Thanks for any help,

Boris

[anahata]

Boris Lau wrote:
Hi there,

currently I have only two channels with ok preamps, the type that's
built into the Yamaha DM2000 consoles. I'd like to buy a preamp with 8
channels. I want low noise, no strong coloration so it's "all purpose",
and preferably with A/D option for ADAT output.

http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm

No A/D output, but otherwise 8 channels of very honest uncoloured
preamp. Don't know if it's in your price range. I have the BG-1 which is
the two channel version and wouldn't hesitate to get the BG-8 if I
needed 8 channels.

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

[mcp6453[_2_]]

anahata wrote:
Boris Lau wrote:

Hi there,

currently I have only two channels with ok preamps, the type that's
built into the Yamaha DM2000 consoles. I'd like to buy a preamp with 8
channels. I want low noise, no strong coloration so it's "all
purpose", and preferably with A/D option for ADAT output.


http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm

No A/D output, but otherwise 8 channels of very honest uncoloured
preamp. Don't know if it's in your price range. I have the BG-1 which is
the two channel version and wouldn't hesitate to get the BG-8 if I
needed 8 channels.



What is the price? For some reason, they do not list pricing on their site (that
I could find.)

[anahata]

mcp6453 wrote:
anahata wrote:


http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm


What is the price? For some reason, they do not list pricing on their
site (that I could find.)

The only way to find out is to call or email Mick Hinton and ask. They
are hand built to order and he only sells direct, but I have no idea why
he does not advertise prices.

My 2-channel BG-1 cost £470 including delivery and VAT in the UK.

The BG-8 should be a good deal cheaper per channel, with just one box
and power supply.

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

[anahata]

mcp6453 wrote:


What is the price?

For a rough guide, a Google search revealed that somebody paid $2200 for
one earlier this year.


--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

[Boris Lau]

Soundhaspriority wrote:
The Octopre is my choice; I have two of them. They have true Class A
circuitry, with built-in fans to dissipate the considerable heat.

Thanks Bob for your review of the Octopre. Actually I try to avoid fans
like the plague. I am currently spending a lot of effort to build a DAW
PC without any fans, and I'm not willing to let some preamps disturb my
silence. I see your point in modding the unit, but I really don't want
to deal with that.

So this is my current list:
RME Octamic II (1249 EUR)
Mackie Onyx 800R (1175 EUR)
Studio Projects SP828 (699 EUR)
Behringer ADA8000 (235 EUR)

Any more opinions? How bad is the Behringer, in terms of noise and sound
quality? Does anyone have experience any of the above preamps?

Thanks,
Boris

eliminated:
Focusrite Octopre (977 EUR) --- fan
Presonus Digimax FS (739 EUR) --- very often reviewed as harsh sounding
Focusrite Octopre LE (485 EUR) --- fan

[Federico]

If you like the DM200 pres put the Yamaha MLA8 in the list...
Very nice for the money. (I've got 3...)
F.

[Scott Dorsey]

Federico wrote:
If you like the DM200 pres put the Yamaha MLA8 in the list...
Very nice for the money. (I've got 3...)

I have the Mackie Onyx here, and it's not all that bad. The response seems
flat with all gains, although the overall tonality changes a little
with changes in gain. It's not super grainy on top like the earlier Mackie
console preamps.

I wouldn't run out and buy one, and it ain't no Millennia, but it's
okay. Oh, for field work it is a bit more RF sensitive than typical
transformer-input devices, but the common mode choke on the front end
does a surprisingly good job considering how little it adds to the cost.

It also has internal converters... I don't really know how good they are
because I haven't tried them. AES/EBU with master clock, and firewire.
No TDIF.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Boris Lau" wrote in message


Soundhaspriority wrote:

The Octopre is my choice; I have two of them. They have
true Class A circuitry, with built-in fans to dissipate
the considerable heat.

Given the impedances and current levels involved with line-level signals, it
shouldn't take a lot of power to run class A.

A preamp stage running at +22 is roughly producing 10 volts RMS, or 14.4
volts peak. Typical load would be no less than 5 K ohms, so peak current is
0.0028 amps. That means that a stage with 3 mA quiescent current would run
peak levels at class A with a little safety margin. Dissipation would be
43 milliwatts.

Hardly anything would would need cooling fans.


So this is my current list:
RME Octamic II (1249 EUR)
Mackie Onyx 800R (1175 EUR)
Studio Projects SP828 (699 EUR)
Behringer ADA8000 (235 EUR)

How bad is the Behringer, in terms of
noise and sound quality?

There are some extant published measurements of ADA 8000:

http://www.audiorail.com/ADA8000.htm

The bottom line is that the ADA8000 is a credible performer.

I use a pair of them interchangably with the mic preamps on an 02R96. I
prefer the 02R96 preamps primarily because they have built-in input
attenuators which allows me to optimize them a little better for a wider
range of microphones and applications. That all said, the ADA8000 mic
preamps are generally usable without the attenuators.

I've had this setup running for about 3 years in a church. We've had
failures* of 2 of the 16 mic preamps in the 02R96, but none of the 16 mic
preamps in the ADA8000.

*We had the same failure mode with both 02R96 preamps. Their signal lights
flash with signal applied, but when we patch any channel to them, there is
no signal . My take: the converters are opening up.

[Scott Dorsey]

Arny Krueger wrote:
The Octopre is my choice; I have two of them. They have
true Class A circuitry, with built-in fans to dissipate
the considerable heat.

Given the impedances and current levels involved with line-level signals, it
shouldn't take a lot of power to run class A.

Depends. If you want to run +8 into 600 ohms, you need a couple watts
output power. You can do that with a single ended output stage, but it
means you need more than a couple watts input power. (The old RCA preamps
did it with a single 6V6).

Consequently most gear marketed as "class A" doesn't really have a class
A output stage. And for that matter, most monolithic op-amps run
class A inside, except for the output stage.

Not that you can't use a pull-up resistor to turn the output into a
Class A output with lower current drive ability and reduced voltage
swing. A lot of folks do that; it's possible to do with some of the
instrumentation amp mike preamps as well.

The whole operating class issue has become so obscured by marketing bull****
these days that it's basically irrelevant now.

A preamp stage running at +22 is roughly producing 10 volts RMS, or 14.4
volts peak. Typical load would be no less than 5 K ohms, so peak current is
0.0028 amps. That means that a stage with 3 mA quiescent current would run
peak levels at class A with a little safety margin. Dissipation would be
43 milliwatts.

If your output stage only has to drive 5K ohms, this is true. You'll find
a lot of professional gear is still designed for 600 ohm loads or even
lower. Actual output impedance of the Great River preamp is about nine
ohms; it will drive a couple watts into a speaker. This is the sort of thing
you expect in normal professional equipment.

Hardly anything would would need cooling fans.

A lot of older consoles would benefit greatly from them, if only because
keeping the operating temperature down would increase capacitor life. Not
to mention being more comfortable for the operator.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

The Octopre is my choice; I have two of them. They have
true Class A circuitry, with built-in fans to dissipate
the considerable heat.

Given the impedances and current levels involved with
line-level signals, it shouldn't take a lot of power to
run class A.

Depends. If you want to run +8 into 600 ohms, you need a
couple watts output power.

Doesn't P still equal E squared over R?

If so, 10 volts RMS (about +22) into a 600 ohm load is a whopping 166
milliwatts. +8 should be less than a tenth of that.

Consequently most gear marketed as "class A" doesn't
really have a class A output stage.

Agreed.

And for that matter, most monolithic
op-amps run class A inside, except for the output stage.

Agreed.

Not that you can't use a pull-up resistor to turn the
output into a
Class A output with lower current drive ability and
reduced voltage
swing. A lot of folks do that; it's possible to do with
some of the instrumentation amp mike preamps as well.

Don't get me started about all the op amps with class AB output stages and
vanishing crossover notches.

The whole operating class issue has become so obscured by
marketing bull**** these days that it's basically irrelevant now.

Much of it centered on the phrase "Class A".

A preamp stage running at +22 is roughly producing 10
volts RMS, or 14.4 volts peak. Typical load would be no
less than 5 K ohms, so peak current is
0.0028 amps. That means that a stage with 3 mA
quiescent current would run peak levels at class A with
a little safety margin. Dissipation would be 43
milliwatts.

If your output stage only has to drive 5K ohms, this is true.

All a mic pre in a digital interface has to do is drive an ADC.

You'll find
a lot of professional gear is still designed for 600 ohm
loads or even lower.

Well, good studio gear. Most common way to do that is something like half a
5532.

Actual output impedance of the
Great River preamp is about nine ohms; it will drive a
couple watts into a speaker. This is the sort of thing
you expect in normal professional equipment.

IME that's not normal. It's an overkill output stage in an overkill preamp.
It meets the needs of a market niche.

Hardly anything would would need cooling fans.

A lot of older consoles would benefit greatly from them,
if only because keeping the operating temperature down
would increase capacitor life.

Cooling fans didn't used to cost so little, and come in so many permuations.

Not to mention being more
comfortable for the operator.

Yeah, it could lead to a uncomfortably warm front panel.

[Scott Dorsey]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

The Octopre is my choice; I have two of them. They have
true Class A circuitry, with built-in fans to dissipate
the considerable heat.

Given the impedances and current levels involved with
line-level signals, it shouldn't take a lot of power to
run class A.

Depends. If you want to run +8 into 600 ohms, you need a
couple watts output power.

Doesn't P still equal E squared over R?

If so, 10 volts RMS (about +22) into a 600 ohm load is a whopping 166
milliwatts. +8 should be less than a tenth of that.

Yup, seems about right. Now, add some headroom to that.

Not that you can't use a pull-up resistor to turn the
output into a
Class A output with lower current drive ability and
reduced voltage
swing. A lot of folks do that; it's possible to do with
some of the instrumentation amp mike preamps as well.

Don't get me started about all the op amps with class AB output stages and
vanishing crossover notches.

Are you in favor or against it? Some of the op-amps with AB output stages
do just fine, while others don't. Crossover distortion is one of those
things that feedback doesn't cure very well. In general the fast video
amplifiers do a pretty lousy job of handling audio.

I still think the MC34081, which had a class A output stage, was one of the
best-sounding op-amps of all time. It had zippo for current drive, though.

A preamp stage running at +22 is roughly producing 10
volts RMS, or 14.4 volts peak. Typical load would be no
less than 5 K ohms, so peak current is
0.0028 amps. That means that a stage with 3 mA
quiescent current would run peak levels at class A with
a little safety margin. Dissipation would be 43
milliwatts.

If your output stage only has to drive 5K ohms, this is true.

All a mic pre in a digital interface has to do is drive an ADC.

Maybe. Or maybe it has to drive a thousand feet of cable into the ADC.
If you KNOW you're only driving a short cable into a high-Z box, you can
design for that. But if you aren't sure what the customer is going to
plug in, you have to design for worst-case.

And that is a lot of the difference between pro audio and consumer gear,
the worst-case operation.

You'll find
a lot of professional gear is still designed for 600 ohm
loads or even lower.

Well, good studio gear. Most common way to do that is something like half a
5532.

The 5532 is pushing it, but it can do the job. I'd rather see a complementary
pair of small transistors on the output of that 5532, personally. On a lot
of older consoles you'll see 2N3055s driving the mix buss, for instance.
That's overkill.

Great River preamp is about nine ohms; it will drive a
couple watts into a speaker. This is the sort of thing
you expect in normal professional equipment.

IME that's not normal. It's an overkill output stage in an overkill preamp.
It meets the needs of a market niche.

Overkill is good. Overkill is expected in the professional world. Because
sooner or later, you're going to be stuck in a situation where it comes in
handy.

Not to mention being more
comfortable for the operator.

Yeah, it could lead to a uncomfortably warm front panel.

Try an older API console. You can almost burn yourself on the console
strips in normal operation. No wonder they have capacitor failures.
Someone SHOULD do some fan retrofits.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

The Octopre is my choice; I have two of them. They
have true Class A circuitry, with built-in fans to
dissipate the considerable heat.

Given the impedances and current levels involved with
line-level signals, it shouldn't take a lot of power to
run class A.

Depends. If you want to run +8 into 600 ohms, you need
a couple watts output power.

Doesn't P still equal E squared over R?

If so, 10 volts RMS (about +22) into a 600 ohm load is a
whopping 166 milliwatts. +8 should be less than a tenth
of that.

Yup, seems about right. Now, add some headroom to that.

Being able to do +22 means not having to have much headroom. ;-)

If you have to have headroom over +22, whats the use of the concept of O dB?
;-)

Seriously, if I was builing something that was speced at +22, I'd try to get
1-3 dB for headroom.

Any traditions of going much past that would trace back to the days of
tubes, where you had to live with thingies that lost lots of guts as a
matter of course.


Not that you can't use a pull-up resistor to turn the
output into a
Class A output with lower current drive ability and
reduced voltage
swing. A lot of folks do that; it's possible to do with
some of the instrumentation amp mike preamps as well.

Don't get me started about all the op amps with class AB
output stages and vanishing crossover notches.

Are you in favor or against it? Some of the op-amps with
AB output stages do just fine, while others don't.

I'm in favor of using op amps that work well with as few work-arounds as
possbile.

Crossover distortion
is one of those things that feedback doesn't cure very
well. In general the fast video amplifiers do a pretty
lousy job of handling audio.

I'm of the opinion that video and audio are two different worlds. While I
live in them concurrently and often, I play by different rules and practices
in each place.

I still think the MC34081, which had a class A output
stage, was one of the best-sounding op-amps of all time.
It had zippo for current drive, though.

Please see former comments about the usually vastly lessened current drive
needs of ADC chips.

A preamp stage running at +22 is roughly producing 10
volts RMS, or 14.4 volts peak. Typical load would be no
less than 5 K ohms, so peak current is
0.0028 amps. That means that a stage with 3 mA
quiescent current would run peak levels at class A with
a little safety margin. Dissipation would be 43
milliwatts.

If your output stage only has to drive 5K ohms, this is
true.

All a mic pre in a digital interface has to do is drive
an ADC.

Maybe. Or maybe it has to drive a thousand feet of cable
into the ADC.

Not if the ADC is in the same box, which I think includes all of the
equipment that the OP mentioned.

If you KNOW you're only driving a short cable into a
high-Z box, you can design for that. But if you aren't
sure what the customer is going to
plug in, you have to design for worst-case.

I have a ton of stuff where the output stage is a 5532 or worse, driving a
build-out resistor of like 100 or 200 ohms. It seems to take the proverbial
licking and keep ticking.

And that is a lot of the difference between pro audio and
consumer gear, the worst-case operation.

Right, but for the price, putting a 5532 into a $100 consumer DVD player's
audio buffer would not be unthinakble.

You'll find
a lot of professional gear is still designed for 600 ohm
loads or even lower.

Well, good studio gear. Most common way to do that is
something like half a 5532.

The 5532 is pushing it, but it can do the job. I'd
rather see a complementary pair of small transistors on
the output of that 5532, personally. On a lot of older
consoles you'll see 2N3055s driving the mix buss, for
instance. That's overkill.

2N3055s? That's a TO3-cased part. Are you sure you don't mean 2N3053s?

Great River preamp is about nine ohms; it will drive a
couple watts into a speaker. This is the sort of thing
you expect in normal professional equipment.

IME that's not normal. It's an overkill output stage in
an overkill preamp. It meets the needs of a market niche.

Overkill is good. Overkill is expected in the
professional world. Because sooner or later, you're
going to be stuck in a situation where it comes in handy.

That's why the use of 5532s is justified. Overkill. Most of the
professinonal world is composed of line level inputs with impedances in the
5-10K range.

Not to mention being more
comfortable for the operator.

Yeah, it could lead to a uncomfortably warm front panel.

Try an older API console. You can almost burn yourself
on the console
strips in normal operation. No wonder they have
capacitor failures.

Getting back to the modern world...

Someone SHOULD do some fan retrofits.

Especially, at today's prices for really pretty good fans.

[Scott Dorsey]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

Any traditions of going much past that would trace back to the days of
tubes, where you had to live with thingies that lost lots of guts as a
matter of course.

The pro audio world continues those traditions for the most part.

And that is a lot of the difference between pro audio and
consumer gear, the worst-case operation.

Right, but for the price, putting a 5532 into a $100 consumer DVD player's
audio buffer would not be unthinakble.

Right, but this is not rec.audio.consumer. This is rec.audio.pro.

The 5532 is pushing it, but it can do the job. I'd
rather see a complementary pair of small transistors on
the output of that 5532, personally. On a lot of older
consoles you'll see 2N3055s driving the mix buss, for
instance. That's overkill.

2N3055s? That's a TO3-cased part. Are you sure you don't mean 2N3053s?

Nope, same 2N3055 that the ATR-100 uses for servomotor control. Nice
big TO-3 part. Drives a super-low-Z summing buss with plenty of headroom
to spare. Gets really hot. This is typical technology.

Overkill is good. Overkill is expected in the
professional world. Because sooner or later, you're
going to be stuck in a situation where it comes in handy.

That's why the use of 5532s is justified. Overkill. Most of the
professinonal world is composed of line level inputs with impedances in the
5-10K range.

That's very little overkill. It's some overkill, but not much. It's
better than nothing, though, but I am not sure I'd want to run an NS5532
into a thousand feet of cat-5.

Try an older API console. You can almost burn yourself
on the console
strips in normal operation. No wonder they have
capacitor failures.

Getting back to the modern world...

Look inside a modern API. It's not a whole lot different. Still has a
big passive low-Z summing buss. The transistors are now TO-220 types,
but the physics have not changed. If you want buss headroom and you want
low buss noise, this is how you build it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Paul Stamler]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Boris Lau" wrote in message


Given the impedances and current levels involved with line-level signals,
it
shouldn't take a lot of power to run class A.

A preamp stage running at +22 is roughly producing 10 volts RMS, or 14.4
volts peak. Typical load would be no less than 5 K ohms, so peak current
is
0.0028 amps. That means that a stage with 3 mA quiescent current would
run
peak levels at class A with a little safety margin. Dissipation would be
43 milliwatts.

Hardly anything would would need cooling fans.

That would be the case if the load is indeed no less than 5k ohms. However,
to be competitive in the marketplace, a piece of "pro" gear must have the
ability to drive a 600 ohm load, even though maybe 1 user in 100 will
actually use that capability. This requires a lot hotter bias on the output.

Peace,
Paul

[Rodney Gurule]

On Dec 21, 4:56 pm, Boris Lau wrote:
Hi there,

currently I have only two channels with ok preamps, the type that's
built into the Yamaha DM2000 consoles. I'd like to buy a preamp with 8
channels. I want low noise, no strong coloration so it's "all purpose",
and preferably with A/D option for ADAT output. I have looked at these
so far:

RME Octamic II (1249 EUR)
Mackie Onyx 800R (1175 EUR)
Focusrite Octopre (977 EUR)
Presonus Digimax FS (739 EUR)
Focusrite Octopre LE (485 EUR)
Behringer ADA8000 (235 EUR)

I'd really like to stay in the middle of that price range, but I want to
get something I won't throw out too soon. As with my previous mic
testings, I'd like to narrow down the list to 2-3 devices and then do a
comparison myself.

I'd be happy about any advice on what to try and what to avoid. Is the
Behringer any good?

Thanks for any help,

Boris

the octopre is what ive been using for a year now in the studio and
live multitracking, you do need to add the adat option, the dynamics
control on the front of the unit is a little sensitive but I never use
it. At $100 a channel of conversion you cant beat it but you need
extra change for the adat card

[Boris Lau]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
I have the Mackie Onyx here, and it's not all that bad.

I wouldn't run out and buy one, and it ain't no Millennia, but it's
okay.
Well, I guess neither you would run out and buy an OctoPre, would you?

Boris

[Boris Lau]

Rodney Gurule wrote:
the octopre is what ive been using for a year now in the studio and
live multitracking, you do need to add the adat option, the dynamics
control on the front of the unit is a little sensitive but I never use
it. At $100 a channel of conversion you cant beat it but you need
extra change for the adat card

Yeah that's the thing, OctoPre + ADAT option is around the same as the
Mackie. And maybe I'm better off with that one...

Boris

[Scott Dorsey]

Boris Lau wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
I have the Mackie Onyx here, and it's not all that bad.

I wouldn't run out and buy one, and it ain't no Millennia, but it's
okay.

Well, I guess neither you would run out and buy an OctoPre, would you?

Dunno, I have never used one. It could be a marvelous sleeper, or just
awful.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:22:17 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message


The whole operating class issue has become so obscured by
marketing bull**** these days that it's basically irrelevant now.

Much of it centered on the phrase "Class A".

Doubtlessly true, but let's not ever lose sight of the shore.
There is a lot of "there" there.

Truely class A operation moves the threshold of monotonicity
glitches from the circuit level way down to the quantuum level,
many orders of magnitude. It's a cheap and predictable way
to acheive a goal, and monotonicity ain't otherwise trivial.

Merry Christmas, as usual,

Chris Hornbeck

[Richard Crowley]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
I have the Mackie Onyx here, and it's not all that bad.

I wouldn't run out and buy one, and it ain't no Millennia,

Whats the topology of the Millenia preamps?
Transformer? circuit topology? component screening?
Do we know what exactly makes them so special?

I got the impresesion at one time that they used the
API-style/Jensen 990-style amplifier modules (like
John Hardy makes) but then I thought I read something
about having their own discreet circuit design.

[Scott Dorsey]

Richard Crowley wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
I have the Mackie Onyx here, and it's not all that bad.

I wouldn't run out and buy one, and it ain't no Millennia,

Whats the topology of the Millenia preamps?
Transformer? circuit topology? component screening?

Transformerless. It's the same four-transistor front end that everybody
has been using for years.

Do we know what exactly makes them so special?

Probably care of construction and layout, not to mention component quality.

I got the impresesion at one time that they used the
API-style/Jensen 990-style amplifier modules (like
John Hardy makes) but then I thought I read something
about having their own discreet circuit design.

They do both, in different products. The front end of the HV-3 is pretty
much the same rough topology as the Mackie. It sure sounds different, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Jim Gilliland]

So this is my current list:
RME Octamic II (1249 EUR)
Mackie Onyx 800R (1175 EUR)
Studio Projects SP828 (699 EUR)
Behringer ADA8000 (235 EUR)

My next guess would be the Studio Projects SP828, because they're still
trying to make a name for themselves, so they've got the Avis complex.

I've been using the SP828s for live remote recordings for several years now, and
I've come to like them more and more over time. They're pretty generic mic
pres, but they sound good and I've never had a problem with headroom. The SP828
uses the Burr Brown INA217 instrumentation amp.

I haven't used the others on your list, so I can't compare them for you.

[hank alrich]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message

Boris Lau wrote:

A guy in the store described the Mackie Preamps as dull
sounding compared to the Octopre ones.

I think he makes more money on the Octopre.

That makes him smarter than the average retailer - at least he knows what
the higher margin stuff is! ;-)

LOL! Excellent, Arny.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam