[Andre Jute]

By the way, Andre, thanks yet again for the 417As. They are now about to
move from potato amp status to SET drivers. I think would like a little
more power. I've just got a pair of FE127es to play with and have been in
mad box-building mode. :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.infohttp://mixpix.batcave.net

My pleasure, Mick. Did I somehow miss the thread in which you told us
the design of your potato amp? And, of even more interest, the
speakers you used them with.

And what the devil are FE127es? You're getting weirder and weirder
Mick; soon you'll be insisting tube rectification sounds better than
than those square black thingies lying dead with their legs in the
air.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio
constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[Patrick Turner]

Andre Jute wrote:

By the way, Andre, thanks yet again for the 417As. They are now about to
move from potato amp status to SET drivers. I think would like a little
more power. I've just got a pair of FE127es to play with and have been in
mad box-building mode. :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.infohttp://mixpix.batcave.net

My pleasure, Mick. Did I somehow miss the thread in which you told us
the design of your potato amp? And, of even more interest, the
speakers you used them with.

And what the devil are FE127es? You're getting weirder and weirder
Mick; soon you'll be insisting tube rectification sounds better than
than those square black thingies lying dead with their legs in the
air.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio
constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Its strange you should mention potatoes in relation to tubes.

I used to use boiled potatoes as my secret weapon in bike races over
100km.
They did seem to work better than a Mars bar.
Inevitably, I collected the name, Potato Pat, and I didn't mind.
I had the full license to use potatoes winningly as I wanted.
Why now, I was tree quarters Irish, because of me Irish mum,
and because of me dad, two turds English.

But other folks discovered other lesser known uses for potatoes
as anti enemy agent. There is nothing so sweet as watching a
horrible neighbour vainly trying to start his car after you've
stuffed a couple of hard potatoes well up his exhaust pipe
late the the previous evening.

And now, yeah, what is an FE127?

Are they not Foster five inch drivers?

Patrick Turner.

[Peter Wieck]

On Nov 14, 7:32 am, Patrick Turner wrote:
And now, yeah, what is an FE127?

Are they not Foster five inch drivers?


Yep (Fostex). A simple search shows that (130mm).

As to potatoes and exhausts - back in the day I was living in off-
campus housing in West Philadelphia, there was a local pimp ("M.B.
Terrell - Super Fly") as written on the door of his heavily modified
Cadillac Pimpmobile) who used to drive down the block at all hours
blowing many varieties of tunes on his air-driven horns.
One day, Mr. Terrell parked his ride in front of our door - his house
was round-the-corner, up the block... two big Idahos (the first foot
of pipe was rectangular, so two spuds each needed) well up each pipe
rammed with a broom-handle at about 4:00AM and a note on the
windshield, two words "BE QUIET". The car was towed and the horns
stopped. It was a gentler time back then. Today there would be random
gunplay if that sort of thing was tried.

But, Potatoes as ammunition for mischief have come a long way.

http://www.spudtech.com/

Just for giggles: A "typical" Caddy pimpmobile:

http://www.madle.org/ecorvorado.htm

Did, by any chance, you cook the spuds on your motorcycle exhaust?
That is another science in its own right.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Andre Jute]

On Nov 14, 12:32 pm, Patrick Turner wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

By the way, Andre, thanks yet again for the 417As. They are now about to
move from potato amp status to SET drivers. I think would like a little
more power. I've just got a pair of FE127es to play with and have been in
mad box-building mode. :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.infohttp://mixpix.batcave.net

My pleasure, Mick. Did I somehow miss the thread in which you told us
the design of your potato amp? And, of even more interest, the
speakers you used them with.

And what the devil are FE127es? You're getting weirder and weirder
Mick; soon you'll be insisting tube rectification sounds better than
than those square black thingies lying dead with their legs in the
air.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps athttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio
constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Its strange you should mention potatoes in relation to tubes.

I used to use boiled potatoes as my secret weapon in bike races over
100km.
They did seem to work better than a Mars bar.

Mars bars are rubbish. The lift doesn't last very long. What works is
carbs. I carry a packet of fig rolls on my bike; highly recommended by
the coach of the British mudbikers. When I was a rugby player, the
team diet was fillet steak and all the potatoes you could eat.

Inevitably, I collected the name, Potato Pat, and I didn't mind.
I had the full license to use potatoes winningly as I wanted.
Why now, I was tree quarters Irish, because of me Irish mum,
and because of me dad, two turds English.

Well now, Padraig...

And now, yeah, what is an FE127?

Are they not Foster five inch drivers?

Yeah, I shoulda seen the clue in Mick's "mad box building" but I took
that to mean he was drilling a chassis for these weird FE127es
tubes...

Fostex, eh? I heard about them: Japanese-style Lowther type point
source speaks with whizzer cones. Said to be very nice indeed in
tapered quarter wave pipes. Indeed, I once published a design that
could be used interchangeably with 8in Lowthers and the equivalent
Fostex drivers, with someone reporting on the single driver conference
that the Fostex went a bit deeper in my design than the Lowther.
Personally, I hated the design, because with the Lowther it was very
sensitive to just how you stuffed the area behind the driver,
otherwise you got a screechy treble overwhelming everything, which had
to be fixed with stupid little tufts of wool between the whizzer and
the main cone; I hate that sort of kludging, and don't care overly
much for those who try to promote it as "tweaking". In my Fidelio type
horns the Lowthers work without that sort of messing around; of
course, my smallest Lowther horn has four times the footprint of a
TQWP, so there is a certain wife acceptance factor involved for the
young at heart.

What sorta boxes did you build for the Fostex, Mick?

Patrick Turner.

Andre Jute
Perception is a skill that requires study and careful development over
along period of time. Few have it as a natural gift. -- Iain Churches

[mick]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:47:11 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:

On Nov 14, 12:32 pm, Patrick Turner wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

By the way, Andre, thanks yet again for the 417As. They are now
about to move from potato amp status to SET drivers. I think would
like a little more power. I've just got a pair of FE127es to play
with and have been in mad box-building mode. :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.infohttp://mixpix.batcave.net

My pleasure, Mick. Did I somehow miss the thread in which you told us
the design of your potato amp? And, of even more interest, the
speakers you used them with.

And what the devil are FE127es? You're getting weirder and weirder
Mick; soon you'll be insisting tube rectification sounds better than
than those square black thingies lying dead with their legs in the
air.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps athttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/ "wonderfully
well written and reasoned information for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Its strange you should mention potatoes in relation to tubes.

I used to use boiled potatoes as my secret weapon in bike races over
100km.
They did seem to work better than a Mars bar.

Mars bars are rubbish. The lift doesn't last very long. What works is
carbs. I carry a packet of fig rolls on my bike; highly recommended by
the coach of the British mudbikers. When I was a rugby player, the team
diet was fillet steak and all the potatoes you could eat.

Inevitably, I collected the name, Potato Pat, and I didn't mind. I had
the full license to use potatoes winningly as I wanted. Why now, I was
tree quarters Irish, because of me Irish mum, and because of me dad,
two turds English.

Well now, Padraig...

And now, yeah, what is an FE127?

Are they not Foster five inch drivers?

Yeah, I shoulda seen the clue in Mick's "mad box building" but I took
that to mean he was drilling a chassis for these weird FE127es tubes...

Fostex, eh? I heard about them: Japanese-style Lowther type point source
speaks with whizzer cones. Said to be very nice indeed in tapered
quarter wave pipes. Indeed, I once published a design that could be used
interchangeably with 8in Lowthers and the equivalent Fostex drivers,
with someone reporting on the single driver conference that the Fostex
went a bit deeper in my design than the Lowther. Personally, I hated the
design, because with the Lowther it was very sensitive to just how you
stuffed the area behind the driver, otherwise you got a screechy treble
overwhelming everything, which had to be fixed with stupid little tufts
of wool between the whizzer and the main cone; I hate that sort of
kludging, and don't care overly much for those who try to promote it as
"tweaking". In my Fidelio type horns the Lowthers work without that sort
of messing around; of course, my smallest Lowther horn has four times
the footprint of a TQWP, so there is a certain wife acceptance factor
involved for the young at heart.

What sorta boxes did you build for the Fostex, Mick?



Well... they are a bit like this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=109208
but I've resized them for the bigger drivers and added bracing. The top
box is a reflex enclosure, the port being the full width slot across the
back. This fires downwards onto a reflector (I don't think this is a
"real" horn in that I don't think the horn section is either tuned or big
enough to make a huge difference). The basic idea is that frequencies
around Fs are reinforced, helping the bottom end a bit.

I'll have a better idea in a couple of days when I've had a first
listen. :-) Hopefully I'll be able to resist gluing them together long
enough to get some photos!

Unfortunately, the FE126e speakers, which I originally ordered, appear to
be unavailable at the moment so I've used their shielded cousins. That
has probably cost me some sensitivity. The 126s are supposed to be 94dBW
and the 127s 91dBW at 1m, but the bass on the 126s is uneven and benefits
from some series resistance. That loses some power and must surely make
the damping worse, so perhaps I've not lost much.

In answer to your earlier query, Andre, no, I didn't post anything about
the spud amp. It was pretty basic and I just re-used my old OPTs -
nothing special. It was actually built on the stripped chassis of my
ECC82 paralleled PP amp so it looked extremely horrid too! The speakers
aren't too bad, but are getting a bit old now. One of my brothers built
them originally from a Wilmslow driver kit. I just wish he hadn't brush-
painted them blue... :-(

The new monoblock amps will be 417A and 6P3C (triode-strapped) to start
with. I have plans to change the output bottle to 6C4C or 6B4G dht (much
like 6.3v 2A3) later and to put a slightly more meatier OPT on them. That
may have to wait until I've got Christmas over with though. So I start
with about 1.4W and upgrade to nearly 3W! :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

[robert casey]

That should be "banana", not "potato".... ;-)

[Peter Wieck]

On Nov 14, 2:57 pm, robert casey wrote:
That should be "banana", not "potato".... ;-)

Only Andre was referring to the bulges at the back, if the bad smell
was not enough.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[robert casey]

Peter Wieck wrote:

On Nov 14, 2:57 pm, robert casey wrote:

That should be "banana", not "potato".... ;-)


Only Andre was referring to the bulges at the back, if the bad smell
was not enough.



Ewwwww... I wouldn't be happy to see anyone that way....

[Peter Wieck]

On Nov 14, 5:58 pm, robert casey wrote:
Peter Wieck wrote:
On Nov 14, 2:57 pm, robert casey wrote:

That should be "banana", not "potato".... ;-)

Only Andre was referring to the bulges at the back, if the bad smell
was not enough.

Ewwwww... I wouldn't be happy to see anyone that way....

Give him credit. He was trying to be nice give his expectations that
people just simply sh*t themselves with awe in his presence.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[robert casey]

Give him credit. He was trying to be nice give his expectations that
people just simply sh*t themselves with awe in his presence.


Okay, but I never heard anyone express such that way. Learn something
new every day... Though I have heard people saying that they crap in
their pants in fear in some situations... :-)

[Andre Jute]

On Nov 14, 10:58 pm, robert casey wrote:
Peter Wieck wrote:
On Nov 14, 2:57 pm, robert casey wrote:

That should be "banana", not "potato".... ;-)

Only Andre was referring to the bulges at the back, if the bad smell
was not enough.

Ewwwww... I wouldn't be happy to see anyone that way....

Worthless Wiecky is a netstalker who has repeatedly claimed to know
what I think better than I do. He doesn't.

I leave the rest of this sordid subthread to Worthless and his
excretory obsessions.

Andre Jute
Disgusted from Ruislip

[Andre Jute]

On Nov 14, 7:12 pm, mick wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:47:11 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 14, 12:32 pm, Patrick Turner wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

By the way, Andre, thanks yet again for the 417As. They are now
about to move from potato amp status to SET drivers. I think would
like a little more power. I've just got a pair of FE127es to play
with and have been in mad box-building mode. :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.infohttp://mixpix.batcave.net

My pleasure, Mick. Did I somehow miss the thread in which you told us
the design of your potato amp? And, of even more interest, the
speakers you used them with.

And what the devil are FE127es? You're getting weirder and weirder
Mick; soon you'll be insisting tube rectification sounds better than
than those square black thingies lying dead with their legs in the
air.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps athttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/"wonderfully
well written and reasoned information for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
[.......]
And now, yeah, what is an FE127?

Are they not Foster five inch drivers?

Yeah, I shoulda seen the clue in Mick's "mad box building" but I took
that to mean he was drilling a chassis for these weird FE127es tubes...

Fostex, eh? I heard about them: Japanese-style Lowther type point source
speaks with whizzer cones. Said to be very nice indeed in tapered
quarter wave pipes. Indeed, I once published a design that could be used
interchangeably with 8in Lowthers and the equivalent Fostex drivers,
with someone reporting on the single driver conference that the Fostex
went a bit deeper in my design than the Lowther. Personally, I hated the
design, because with the Lowther it was very sensitive to just how you
stuffed the area behind the driver, otherwise you got a screechy treble
overwhelming everything, which had to be fixed with stupid little tufts
of wool between the whizzer and the main cone; I hate that sort of
kludging, and don't care overly much for those who try to promote it as
"tweaking". In my Fidelio type horns the Lowthers work without that sort
of messing around; of course, my smallest Lowther horn has four times
the footprint of a TQWP, so there is a certain wife acceptance factor
involved for the young at heart.

What sorta boxes did you build for the Fostex, Mick?

Well... they are a bit like this:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=109208
but I've resized them for the bigger drivers and added bracing. The top
box is a reflex enclosure, the port being the full width slot across the
back. This fires downwards onto a reflector (I don't think this is a
"real" horn in that I don't think the horn section is either tuned or big
enough to make a huge difference). The basic idea is that frequencies
around Fs are reinforced, helping the bottom end a bit.

Looks like a clever design. Gordon Rankin used to work with the
Diatone, no longer available but in its day a Japanese street legend,
and he always said the trick is to build the box right and not to try
to extract too much at the low end. This Chang idea of effectively
putting the box on top of a dedicated stand which is also a guide to
couple the longer waves to the floor is a pretty trick way of
accomplishing two separate functions (balancing the midrange, and
getting more bass from a small driver than it really wants to give).

It's years since I've been on their site but Fostex themselves
published some very clever designs on a principle devised by Harry
Olson where, instead of angled planks like in my Fidelio-type horns
(so difficult to saw right that I buy factory woodwork and then alter
it), ever shorter planks are glued together flat in a step formation,
and all junctions and joints are perpendicular. The structure is thus
easy to build and very stiff so that unwanted resonances are almost
non-existent. I've forgotten the name of the Japanese chappie who took
this method and refined it tremendously with a gazillion designs for
just about every Fostex driver. You'd expect a nasty comb response but
in fact the waterfall is nicely smoothed off for the meterheads and
super on the ear.

I'll have a better idea in a couple of days when I've had a first
listen. :-) Hopefully I'll be able to resist gluing them together long
enough to get some photos!

Absolutely essential. Enquiring minds want to know!

Unfortunately, the FE126e speakers, which I originally ordered, appear to
be unavailable at the moment so I've used their shielded cousins. That
has probably cost me some sensitivity. The 126s are supposed to be 94dBW
and the 127s 91dBW at 1m, but the bass on the 126s is uneven and benefits
from some series resistance. That loses some power and must surely make
the damping worse, so perhaps I've not lost much.

So much depends on the boxing anyway, 3dB this way or that on a spec
sheet isn't a big deal.

In answer to your earlier query, Andre, no, I didn't post anything about
the spud amp. It was pretty basic and I just re-used my old OPTs -
nothing special. It was actually built on the stripped chassis of my
ECC82 paralleled PP amp so it looked extremely horrid too! The speakers
aren't too bad, but are getting a bit old now. One of my brothers built
them originally from a Wilmslow driver kit. I just wish he hadn't brush-
painted them blue... :-(

The new monoblock amps will be 417A and 6P3C (triode-strapped) to start
with.

The 417A should be run with 18mA or more of current; they can take it.
The more current you put on the driver, the less bother you will have
with Miller capacitance.

I have plans to change the output bottle to 6C4C or 6B4G dht (much
like 6.3v 2A3)

I had a matched quad once that a Joenetter sent me when he retired
from tubes. I gave them to a guy who built an Audio Innovations First
PP 2A3 clone because I thought them a bit small -- this was before I
decided that triode PP makes the finest sound, when I was just
starting out in SE. I shoulda kept them; his amp is super with horns
and even reasonably sensitive bookshelf speaks, and an absolute liquid-
sound delight on my Impresario speaker. It is also a match made in
heaven with ESL57. Andy Evans was explaining to me the other day on
UKRA that the same AI "First" design is still in production under
another name.

later and to put a slightly more meatier OPT on them. That
may have to wait until I've got Christmas over with though. So I start
with about 1.4W and upgrade to nearly 3W! :-)

You megalomaniac, you!

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.infohttp://mixpix.batcave.net

Andre Jute
Impedance is futile, you will be simulated into the triode of the
Borg. -- Robert Casey

[mick]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 05:08:12 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:

snip

Looks like a clever design. Gordon Rankin used to work with the Diatone,
no longer available but in its day a Japanese street legend, and he
always said the trick is to build the box right and not to try to
extract too much at the low end. This Chang idea of effectively putting
the box on top of a dedicated stand which is also a guide to couple the
longer waves to the floor is a pretty trick way of accomplishing two
separate functions (balancing the midrange, and getting more bass from a
small driver than it really wants to give).


I've just been playing with the first one. It's not easy finding
somewhere to even stand it in my shed! Stuffing seems to be important &
I've also tried a couple of values of resistors & a very small inductor.
The top end seems to be rather strident & harsh, but that may not be
helped by the surroundings, amp & source (DVD player).


It's years since I've been on their site but Fostex themselves published
some very clever designs on a principle devised by Harry Olson where,
instead of angled planks like in my Fidelio-type horns (so difficult to
saw right that I buy factory woodwork and then alter it), ever shorter
planks are glued together flat in a step formation, and all junctions
and joints are perpendicular. The structure is thus easy to build and
very stiff so that unwanted resonances are almost non-existent. I've
forgotten the name of the Japanese chappie who took this method and
refined it tremendously with a gazillion designs for just about every
Fostex driver. You'd expect a nasty comb response but in fact the
waterfall is nicely smoothed off for the meterheads and super on the
ear.


Those designs are still on their site. I did consider building one, but
this version took less wood. ;-)


I'll have a better idea in a couple of days when I've had a first
listen. :-) Hopefully I'll be able to resist gluing them together long
enough to get some photos!

Absolutely essential. Enquiring minds want to know!


:-)


Unfortunately, the FE126e speakers, which I originally ordered, appear
to be unavailable at the moment so I've used their shielded cousins.
That has probably cost me some sensitivity. The 126s are supposed to be
94dBW and the 127s 91dBW at 1m, but the bass on the 126s is uneven and
benefits from some series resistance. That loses some power and must
surely make the damping worse, so perhaps I've not lost much.

So much depends on the boxing anyway, 3dB this way or that on a spec
sheet isn't a big deal.


That's why I decided to accept them rather than wait. I'd already got the
boxes cluttering the shed up too.


snip

The 417A should be run with 18mA or more of current; they can take it.
The more current you put on the driver, the less bother you will have
with Miller capacitance.


The mains trannies are an unknown quantity, but by my estimation should
be capable of about 100mA, so I can manage 18 to 20mA ok. I've done a
quick breadboard using LED biasing at 15mA for the 417A. No proper
testing, but it looks promising so far even using an old el-cheapo OPT
for testing.


I have plans to change the output bottle to 6C4C or 6B4G dht (much
like 6.3v 2A3)

I had a matched quad once that a Joenetter sent me when he retired from
tubes. I gave them to a guy who built an Audio Innovations First PP 2A3
clone because I thought them a bit small -- this was before I decided
that triode PP makes the finest sound, when I was just starting out in
SE. I shoulda kept them; his amp is super with horns and even reasonably
sensitive bookshelf speaks, and an absolute liquid- sound delight on my
Impresario speaker. It is also a match made in heaven with ESL57. Andy
Evans was explaining to me the other day on UKRA that the same AI
"First" design is still in production under another name.


Hmmm... I just happen to have a pair of 5k7 a-a OPTs here, which have
been put to one side "for a rainy day". Perhaps I need 2 pairs of DHTs to
play with!

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

[Patrick Turner]

I said....

I used to use boiled potatoes as my secret weapon in bike races over
100km.
They did seem to work better than a Mars bar.


someone replied.....
Mars bars are rubbish. The lift doesn't last very long. What works is
carbs. I carry a packet of fig rolls on my bike; highly recommended by
the coach of the British mudbikers. When I was a rugby player, the team
diet was fillet steak and all the potatoes you could eat.


I went on a very hard bike ride 3 weeks ago, 108kms around a very hilly
course,
maybe 1,200metres vertical of climbing, with a lot at 8% gradient.

I took 4.5 hours and although I started 1/2 an hour before the main
field of maybe a 100 riders,
I was third to finish at 15minutes behind 2 guys of about 30, so
although I left 1/2 an hour early, I gave those guys a 30 year start
because I'm 60.
I wondered what kept them from passing me sooner than they did.

I rarely ever eat when I am on a ride these days. As one ages, nearly
everything one does gets more difficult
to do except being wise perhaps. But trying to digest food while on the
move on a bicycle
is not something that improves with age.
So I have never eaten during some of the 100km + training rides I do
around town.


108km is a small ride by TDF standards, but it sure tested me.
Potatoes seemed to be a reasonable fix but although they are natural
complex carbohydrate,
the calories per kg are low, and getting the calories to the muscles in
a long ride
is a being a little too optimistic. Simplistic ppl who think they can
just eat while riding
to make up for an absense of in-depth training are sorely dissapointed.
The body and its workings is far more complex than most ppl think, and
the
glossy sporting magazine articles advertize all this stuff to eat but I
doubt much works.

I didn't quite do enough training for this long ride and found I
was the living dead for the last 15kms, but then the wind was behind me
and the day was overcast
and it wasn't too hard a struggle. When 40 I could easily ride 150km in
such terrain.
But I must have done just enough training to get though.
I passed others who'd begun earlier in the 160km route which was harder,
and wondered
how they'd ever finish. It was obvious to me they had no idea that it
soon becomes MUCH more difficult to
ride up a steep hill of say 8% gradient which is a couple of kilometres
long than it is to ride a slight
steep rise in their local suburb, maybe 100metres long.
They didn't understand that after the first shocker of a really big
hill, there are maybe another
5 more to follow, and each one takes its toll, and after several hours
one's average speed
can drop dramatically, and regardless of how easy one tries to ride up
hill,
and how low the gearing is on the bike. After 100km, I was going
straight down to the lowest
gear I wisely chose, 39 front cog x 27 rear cog. At 40 I rode 42 x 23.
Age takes its toll.

You are right about Mars Bars and Coca Cola. Same goes for all the rest
of the absolute junk being sold
around the shops. Its basically all complete rot gut, and all makers of
this muck
should have their manufacturing licences cancelled and the shops fined
for selling non natural processed food.
Don't get me strarted on food, but most of what is making so many arses
so ****ing big
and health problems so large is the food industry and substance
industries.

I mentioned my slight discomfort at the tail end of a decent ride to a
young dude and he said
eat carbo gel products, presumably tailored to be more slowly be
absorbed
without the body having to work so hard to do that in addition to
prodiving an average of 200 watts
of mechanical power.

I have not tried his advice, but actually let myself get knocked up by
such hard and difficult things
so that the challenge better promotes fat loss and re-definition of
muscle structure.

18mths ago I was 95kg, but now I seem to have settled at 75kg, and its
extremely difficult to
get weight any lower. A skin fold test would reveal I had a HIGH
percentage of body fat of maybe 12%, as opposed to a lean
elite athlete who is typically 8%, and if I was 8% now I'd be slightly
faster up hills on the bike and
might possibly rank amoung the top national cyclists in my age group,
but I have NEVER been to of my heap ever.
Compared to the top riders of my age group who need to have a large
house with a couple of spare rooms for
all the sporting trophies thay have won, I have very few trophies to
show for a total now of about 110,000 kms I have ridden
since 1986. But I don't regret one single kilometre.
Between age 37 and 43 I rode 100,000km in training and weekly club
races.
The longer the race, the better I liked it. At club level, the elites
didn't get all the fame.
The handicapping system evened ppl out.
But the best time trial for 25miles or 40kms I ever did was 1.06, and
there were 3 guys
in the club between 47 and 53 who'd clock very close to the hour.
In a long race these guys didn't like the surging, and like me they
couldn't
sprint to save their lives, but against the clock on they own they were
masters of pain and style.
And they could maintain very unusually high heart rates for their age,
and most
were leaner than myself, to the point of looking emaciated.
There was an abundance of the athletic gene in their make up.
Not everyone has an abundance.
Its not any use for anyone to try to force oneself to be the build that
does not simply result from doing ample exercise and eating wisely.
There are cyclists I have known who'd start each season heavy, and after
a few rides
would lean down to racing weight with ease, and beat everyone else.
By comparision, I had to ride a lot further harder to get anywhere.

3 years ago, I had an operation on my knees and the doctors said I'd
soon need a pair of titanium and plastic
joints to stop the pain I was enduring. I couldn't even mow my own
lawns...
But the little cartlidge operation did improve things and I was able to
get back into best personal form
very close to where I was at age 40. Don't always believe doctors.
They couldn't really say what had caused them to become so sore, I sure
couldn't,
but their fix seemed to work.

Anyway, I thought riding a regular 200km a week would either wreck my
knees, and i would need the joints,
or it would improve my whole body, and stop the fast slide into fatness
and
rotting health that bedevils about 75% of the people I know of my age.

I have had good improvement to health, and ride much faster than most
ppl of 40,
and I have NEVER been passed on the road by anyone my age during the
last 18mths.

Knee pain has reduced to almost nothing, and unlike 3 years ago when I
couldn't
stand up talking to someone for 10 minutes withouty looking for a chair,
I am only slightly discomforted after a 100km ride, and there isn't any
serious pains the next day.

I also swim about 300metres daily which seems to be excellent for my
back.
Old verterbrea tend to slip out of place, and swimming is excellent for
the back,
and to balance the lack of motion of the arms while on the bike.

Steak and potatoes isn't too bad, but some ppl have too much steak and
too few potatoes,
and if they do eat potatoes, its in the form of deep fried chips full of
oil.

The natural human diet is 10% protein, 10% fat, and 80% complex
carbohydrate.
I have always tried to keep to this idea, but aduring 14 years of
doing very little exercize beyond lugging heavy tube amplifiers around,
I was putting on about 1.4kg per year. It could have been 3 kg, but I
know how to say no
to absurd helpings of food and gallons of beer when its offered.

As one toughens up to an exercize regime the body plays tricks because
it becomes far more efficent
and hence it becomes increasingly difficult to get to where the elite
natural athlete
is without having to try very hard.

This morning I was on the road at 6.30am, and did a couple of long big
hills in my course
of 65km. I caught and passed a number of people, and stopped for a chat
at the top of one hill.
It was beautiful early morning at the top with mist hanging on mountain
ranges and
definately had an out of this world feel about it. It elates all the
senses
to get out and do something.

Meanwhile, I think the worst horn sound I heard did use Foster 5"
speakers in tractrix horns
home made buy a guy who tried hard.
No success though. The sounded like the sound was trapped inside a close
wooden box.

There are many examples of horn speakers which are simply expensive
firewood.

Patrick Turner.







Inevitably, I collected the name, Potato Pat, and I didn't mind. I had
the full license to use potatoes winningly as I wanted. Why now, I was
tree quarters Irish, because of me Irish mum, and because of me dad,
two turds English.

Well now, Padraig...

And now, yeah, what is an FE127?

Are they not Foster five inch drivers?

Yeah, I shoulda seen the clue in Mick's "mad box building" but I took
that to mean he was drilling a chassis for these weird FE127es tubes...

Fostex, eh? I heard about them: Japanese-style Lowther type point source
speaks with whizzer cones. Said to be very nice indeed in tapered
quarter wave pipes. Indeed, I once published a design that could be used
interchangeably with 8in Lowthers and the equivalent Fostex drivers,
with someone reporting on the single driver conference that the Fostex
went a bit deeper in my design than the Lowther. Personally, I hated the
design, because with the Lowther it was very sensitive to just how you
stuffed the area behind the driver, otherwise you got a screechy treble
overwhelming everything, which had to be fixed with stupid little tufts
of wool between the whizzer and the main cone; I hate that sort of
kludging, and don't care overly much for those who try to promote it as
"tweaking". In my Fidelio type horns the Lowthers work without that sort
of messing around; of course, my smallest Lowther horn has four times
the footprint of a TQWP, so there is a certain wife acceptance factor
involved for the young at heart.

What sorta boxes did you build for the Fostex, Mick?


Well... they are a bit like this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=109208
but I've resized them for the bigger drivers and added bracing. The top
box is a reflex enclosure, the port being the full width slot across the
back. This fires downwards onto a reflector (I don't think this is a
"real" horn in that I don't think the horn section is either tuned or big
enough to make a huge difference). The basic idea is that frequencies
around Fs are reinforced, helping the bottom end a bit.

I'll have a better idea in a couple of days when I've had a first
listen. :-) Hopefully I'll be able to resist gluing them together long
enough to get some photos!

Unfortunately, the FE126e speakers, which I originally ordered, appear to
be unavailable at the moment so I've used their shielded cousins. That
has probably cost me some sensitivity. The 126s are supposed to be 94dBW
and the 127s 91dBW at 1m, but the bass on the 126s is uneven and benefits
from some series resistance. That loses some power and must surely make
the damping worse, so perhaps I've not lost much.

In answer to your earlier query, Andre, no, I didn't post anything about
the spud amp. It was pretty basic and I just re-used my old OPTs -
nothing special. It was actually built on the stripped chassis of my
ECC82 paralleled PP amp so it looked extremely horrid too! The speakers
aren't too bad, but are getting a bit old now. One of my brothers built
them originally from a Wilmslow driver kit. I just wish he hadn't brush-
painted them blue... :-(

The new monoblock amps will be 417A and 6P3C (triode-strapped) to start
with. I have plans to change the output bottle to 6C4C or 6B4G dht (much
like 6.3v 2A3) later and to put a slightly more meatier OPT on them. That
may have to wait until I've got Christmas over with though. So I start
with about 1.4W and upgrade to nearly 3W! :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

[Andre Jute]

On Nov 17, 3:39 pm, Patrick Turner wrote:
I said....

I used to use boiled potatoes as my secret weapon in bike races over
100km.
They did seem to work better than a Mars bar.

someone replied.....

Moi.

Mars bars are rubbish. The lift doesn't last very long. What works is
carbs. I carry a packet of fig rolls on my bike; highly recommended by
the coach of the British mudbikers. When I was a rugby player, the team
diet was fillet steak and all the potatoes you could eat.

I went on a very hard bike ride 3 weeks ago, 108kms around a very hilly
course,
maybe 1,200metres vertical of climbing, with a lot at 8% gradient.

So now we know where you've been since then: under medical care. I
surely would be if I tried 108km! A good ride for me is 22km.

Try black or dark blue clothes. They make you look slimmer.

Today I lunched at Isaac's in McCurtain St in Cork, on tapas, roast
pheasant with a jus of red wine, spicy pear tart with butterscotch
sauce, washing it down with a bottle of Guignal Cotes de Rhone and
that distillation of sunshine, the Barton reserve Sauternes for a
desert wine.

I was planning on cycling when I got home but it is absolutely ****ing
down.

I doubt I shall ever weigh 75kg but then I never did. Even when I
earned my living as a professional sportsman, I never broke 190lbs to
the downside, which was acceptable for someone my height and bigboned,
so perhaps it is a triumph for the sedentary intellectual in several
decades to have put on only another stone. (That collage of measuring
standards should confuse the French!)

Andre Jute

I took 4.5 hours and although I started 1/2 an hour before the main
field of maybe a 100 riders,
I was third to finish at 15minutes behind 2 guys of about 30, so
although I left 1/2 an hour early, I gave those guys a 30 year start
because I'm 60.
I wondered what kept them from passing me sooner than they did.

I rarely ever eat when I am on a ride these days. As one ages, nearly
everything one does gets more difficult
to do except being wise perhaps. But trying to digest food while on the
move on a bicycle
is not something that improves with age.
So I have never eaten during some of the 100km + training rides I do
around town.

108km is a small ride by TDF standards, but it sure tested me.
Potatoes seemed to be a reasonable fix but although they are natural
complex carbohydrate,
the calories per kg are low, and getting the calories to the muscles in
a long ride
is a being a little too optimistic. Simplistic ppl who think they can
just eat while riding
to make up for an absense of in-depth training are sorely dissapointed.
The body and its workings is far more complex than most ppl think, and
the
glossy sporting magazine articles advertize all this stuff to eat but I
doubt much works.

I didn't quite do enough training for this long ride and found I
was the living dead for the last 15kms, but then the wind was behind me
and the day was overcast
and it wasn't too hard a struggle. When 40 I could easily ride 150km in
such terrain.
But I must have done just enough training to get though.
I passed others who'd begun earlier in the 160km route which was harder,
and wondered
how they'd ever finish. It was obvious to me they had no idea that it
soon becomes MUCH more difficult to
ride up a steep hill of say 8% gradient which is a couple of kilometres
long than it is to ride a slight
steep rise in their local suburb, maybe 100metres long.
They didn't understand that after the first shocker of a really big
hill, there are maybe another
5 more to follow, and each one takes its toll, and after several hours
one's average speed
can drop dramatically, and regardless of how easy one tries to ride up
hill,
and how low the gearing is on the bike. After 100km, I was going
straight down to the lowest
gear I wisely chose, 39 front cog x 27 rear cog. At 40 I rode 42 x 23.
Age takes its toll.

You are right about Mars Bars and Coca Cola. Same goes for all the rest
of the absolute junk being sold
around the shops. Its basically all complete rot gut, and all makers of
this muck
should have their manufacturing licences cancelled and the shops fined
for selling non natural processed food.
Don't get me strarted on food, but most of what is making so many arses
so ****ing big
and health problems so large is the food industry and substance
industries.

I mentioned my slight discomfort at the tail end of a decent ride to a
young dude and he said
eat carbo gel products, presumably tailored to be more slowly be
absorbed
without the body having to work so hard to do that in addition to
prodiving an average of 200 watts
of mechanical power.

I have not tried his advice, but actually let myself get knocked up by
such hard and difficult things
so that the challenge better promotes fat loss and re-definition of
muscle structure.

18mths ago I was 95kg, but now I seem to have settled at 75kg, and its
extremely difficult to
get weight any lower. A skin fold test would reveal I had a HIGH
percentage of body fat of maybe 12%, as opposed to a lean
elite athlete who is typically 8%, and if I was 8% now I'd be slightly
faster up hills on the bike and
might possibly rank amoung the top national cyclists in my age group,
but I have NEVER been to of my heap ever.
Compared to the top riders of my age group who need to have a large
house with a couple of spare rooms for
all the sporting trophies thay have won, I have very few trophies to
show for a total now of about 110,000 kms I have ridden
since 1986. But I don't regret one single kilometre.
Between age 37 and 43 I rode 100,000km in training and weekly club
races.
The longer the race, the better I liked it. At club level, the elites
didn't get all the fame.
The handicapping system evened ppl out.
But the best time trial for 25miles or 40kms I ever did was 1.06, and
there were 3 guys
in the club between 47 and 53 who'd clock very close to the hour.
In a long race these guys didn't like the surging, and like me they
couldn't
sprint to save their lives, but against the clock on they own they were
masters of pain and style.
And they could maintain very unusually high heart rates for their age,
and most
were leaner than myself, to the point of looking emaciated.
There was an abundance of the athletic gene in their make up.
Not everyone has an abundance.
Its not any use for anyone to try to force oneself to be the build that
does not simply result from doing ample exercise and eating wisely.
There are cyclists I have known who'd start each season heavy, and after
a few rides
would lean down to racing weight with ease, and beat everyone else.
By comparision, I had to ride a lot further harder to get anywhere.

3 years ago, I had an operation on my knees and the doctors said I'd
soon need a pair of titanium and plastic
joints to stop the pain I was enduring. I couldn't even mow my own
lawns...
But the little cartlidge operation did improve things and I was able to
get back into best personal form
very close to where I was at age 40. Don't always believe doctors.
They couldn't really say what had caused them to become so sore, I sure
couldn't,
but their fix seemed to work.

Anyway, I thought riding a regular 200km a week would either wreck my
knees, and i would need the joints,
or it would improve my whole body, and stop the fast slide into fatness
and
rotting health that bedevils about 75% of the people I know of my age.

I have had good improvement to health, and ride much faster than most
ppl of 40,
and I have NEVER been passed on the road by anyone my age during the
last 18mths.

Knee pain has reduced to almost nothing, and unlike 3 years ago when I
couldn't
stand up talking to someone for 10 minutes withouty looking for a chair,
I am only slightly discomforted after a 100km ride, and there isn't any
serious pains the next day.

I also swim about 300metres daily which seems to be excellent for my
back.
Old verterbrea tend to slip out of place, and swimming is excellent for
the back,
and to balance the lack of motion of the arms while on the bike.

Steak and potatoes isn't too bad, but some ppl have too much steak and
too few potatoes,
and if they do eat potatoes, its in the form of deep fried chips full of
oil.

The natural human diet is 10% protein, 10% fat, and 80% complex
carbohydrate.
I have always tried to keep to this idea, but aduring 14 years of
doing very little exercize beyond lugging heavy tube amplifiers around,
I was putting on about 1.4kg per year. It could have been 3 kg, but I
know how to say no
to absurd helpings of food and gallons of beer when its offered.

As one toughens up to an exercize regime the body plays tricks because
it becomes far more efficent
and hence it becomes increasingly difficult to get to where the elite
natural athlete
is without having to try very hard.

This morning I was on the road at 6.30am, and did a couple of long big
hills in my course
of 65km. I caught and passed a number of people, and stopped for a chat
at the top of one hill.
It was beautiful early morning at the top with mist hanging on mountain
ranges and
definately had an out of this world feel about it. It elates all the
senses
to get out and do something.

Meanwhile, I think the worst horn sound I heard did use Foster 5"
speakers in tractrix horns
home made buy a guy who tried hard.
No success though. The sounded like the sound was trapped inside a close
wooden box.

There are many examples of horn speakers which are simply expensive
firewood.

Patrick Turner.



Inevitably, I collected the name, Potato Pat, and I didn't mind. I had
the full license to use potatoes winningly as I wanted. Why now, I was
tree quarters Irish, because of me Irish mum, and because of me dad,
two turds English.

Well now, Padraig...

And now, yeah, what is an FE127?

Are they not Foster five inch drivers?

Yeah, I shoulda seen the clue in Mick's "mad box building" but I took
that to mean he was drilling a chassis for these weird FE127es tubes...

Fostex, eh? I heard about them: Japanese-style Lowther type point source
speaks with whizzer cones. Said to be very nice indeed in tapered
quarter wave pipes. Indeed, I once published a design that could be used
interchangeably with 8in Lowthers and the equivalent Fostex drivers,
with someone reporting on the single driver conference that the Fostex
went a bit deeper in my design than the Lowther. Personally, I hated the
design, because with the Lowther it was very sensitive to just how you
stuffed the area behind the driver, otherwise you got a screechy treble
overwhelming everything, which had to be fixed with stupid little tufts
of wool between the whizzer and the main cone; I hate that sort of
kludging, and don't care overly much for those who try to promote it as
"tweaking". In my Fidelio type horns the Lowthers work without that

...

read more

[Gray Glass]

Andre's manifold exploits and romps with the rich and famous during the 60's
can now be viewed on DVD:

Check out "Forrest Gump" (1994) from Paramount Pictures . . .

;-)

[Patrick Turner]

Andre Jute wrote:

On Nov 17, 3:39 pm, Patrick Turner wrote:
I said....

I used to use boiled potatoes as my secret weapon in bike races over
100km.
They did seem to work better than a Mars bar.

someone replied.....

Moi.

Mars bars are rubbish. The lift doesn't last very long. What works is
carbs. I carry a packet of fig rolls on my bike; highly recommended by
the coach of the British mudbikers. When I was a rugby player, the team
diet was fillet steak and all the potatoes you could eat.

I went on a very hard bike ride 3 weeks ago, 108kms around a very hilly
course,
maybe 1,200metres vertical of climbing, with a lot at 8% gradient.

So now we know where you've been since then: under medical care. I
surely would be if I tried 108km! A good ride for me is 22km.

The event I went in arranged by Pedal Power was the 'Thawa Challenge'.
http://www.pedalpower.org.au/events/...0challenge.pdf
Other events for the day were the 'Epic', at 210km, with around
3,300metres of hills,
and 'Classic' at 160km, maybe 2,000m of hills.
For beginners and weaklings, there was the 'Tidbinbilla' of 50km.
One guy of 29 did the Epic 210km in 7.5 hours. It was his 9th try.
And he isn't anyone who we might see soon in the TDF like Cadel Evans.
There were about 450 entrants for the 4 groups of riders on the day,
down on last year
probably because of the increase on the entry fee because of the
increase on insurance premium because a guy got
killed last year riding down Fitz's Hill. The whole event is named after
Fitz.
We don't know who he was, maybe a german immigrant who loved roaming up
these hills, but we all sure know this hill.
It is a 10% gradient over a full 2.8km distance, so riding up it sorely
tests everyone.
The first 1/2 km seems fine, you know are being challenged. The second
1/2 km you
realize you need to go for a lower gear and you can forget all about
what you read in the books about
climbing hills. During the next km your world view darkens, torture
begins and you begin to realize
your'e being punished for existing, and the world is being seriously
unfavourable.
The last km teaches you dissapointment. Just when you are thinking its
near the end of the climb,
a view ahead around yet another bend confirms you must die for slightly
more distance....
But at the top of this hill one feels great relief, because nothing
worse is to follow.
If one has been wise, one will have benefitted from fitting an extra low
gear.
Last time I did this hill in about 1990, I used 42 x 23 and struggled.

Then once over this brute of a climb, there are steep descents and more
climbs until the end of the
sealed road appears, and you turn around to return. If one wanted to
keep going and make a loop
for the day there would be another 150km extra, and much gravel road,
and full of severe
mountainous climbs and descents.

Returning down Fitzs hill is somewhat tense experience. If one is riding
on one's own
one may just freewheel down and reach rather exciting speeds for a
bicycle, and not
have to worry about slower other riders ahead, or faster ones passing.
Sometimes a kangaroo can hop out of the bush suddenly. This is always a
very
nerve wracking experience. Its happened a few times to me but
fortunately not on this hill
and not when quickly descending others.
I have ridden this hill a few times years ago and maybe I hit 80km/hr.
But guys who have seriously raced down this hill have clocked up to
120kph, pedling furiously
to maximize speed.
So when inevitably someone managed to hit something or fall off at
between 80 and 100kph,
it was always going to be a serious accident, and one a long way from
any medical assistance,
and it'd be so easy to bleed to death in the middle of knowhere.
Thousands of kangaroos end their lives each year this way after being
hit by cars and lorries.


Try black or dark blue clothes. They make you look slimmer.

No, I'd get mistaken for a priest, policeman, or crazy artistic type,
audio tech, and good for nothing poseur.



Today I lunched at Isaac's in McCurtain St in Cork, on tapas, roast
pheasant with a jus of red wine, spicy pear tart with butterscotch
sauce, washing it down with a bottle of Guignal Cotes de Rhone and
that distillation of sunshine, the Barton reserve Sauternes for a
desert wine.

There are not many really decent restaurant or cafes here worth cycling
50km across town
where you can park a bike beside the table outside.

Its far cheaper to dine at home after a ride.


Nevertheless, I often stop at one cafe in town on the way home after a
ride and get a hot chocolate
and a choclate fudge biscuit for USD $6.00.


I was planning on cycling when I got home but it is absolutely ****ing
down.

The eternal cyclist's worry is whether it will rain or not.

But here the average rainfall for the last
10 years has reduced to about 40% of "averages" before 2003.
http://www.enviro-friendly.com/average-rainfall.shtml

Water is becoming a scarce thing,
and the supply dams for the Canberra might actually run dry.
Climate change is having a very drastic effect on Australian water
supplies.

Cycling has become very popular compared to 20 years ago when
almost no women took part, and ppl and staff looked at you strangely in
cafes when you appeared
in lycra knicks. Now the waitresses look at me as if they fancy me. Us
cyclists are
the healthiest customers.
And the waitresses are dishes on legs, and I'd quite like to be 30 again
to fix 'em up.

But I only end up soaked through after riding 50km in ****ing rains
maybe
once a year now if I get caught in an afternoon storm. It used to happen
much more often.
I rode in 5 consecutive Canberra Tours held in autumn, and in 3 it
****ed rain
for a lot of the races. People entered in my grade wouldn't enter in day
2
either because of the weather, or because they hadn't got into the the
first 10 places on day 1, and
wouldn't earn any prizemoney to pay for the motel. Cyclist's are
eternally tight arsed with money.
So this allowed me to get a much higher placing as a local.
I recall doing the third and and last ride on a sunday of about 70km,
and it rained and sleeted for
the whole race, but only about 20 entrants out of the full 60 turned up
to start.

I went into such 'open' events because it attracted the fittest
ppl from around NSW, and gave me real competition, and quality training.
I never did well because most were years younger, some 20 years younger,
and it was a scratch race event, all off together, and old farts like me
had no chance for a win.
But I sure didn't come last. I was aways better for weeks after in the
local club
races during the following winter.
As a much older farter at 60 I have no desire to enter any 'open' races
with all ages now.

There come a time when it becomes easier to reach one's limits of
endurance at an older age
because usually a dodgy back or knee or something else tells you there
is a definite limit.
Training hard gets you to a level of fitness which becomes very
difficult to improve,
and one knows that its all downwards as years pass, and a day will come
when
wheels are hung up for good.
But between now and then I hope to merely enjoy the bicycle.
I don't have the time or inclination to race again in the local Veterans
Club.
Its mainly full of young fellas of 40.
They hold races way across town, way up the back of lonely roads and
because of the
insurance premiums, its not cheap to race while on a low income as an
audio tech.


I doubt I shall ever weigh 75kg but then I never did. Even when I
earned my living as a professional sportsman, I never broke 190lbs to
the downside, which was acceptable for someone my height and bigboned,
so perhaps it is a triumph for the sedentary intellectual in several
decades to have put on only another stone. (That collage of measuring
standards should confuse the French!)


Hmm, most ppl who say they are "big boned" are simply chubby.

The simple test is to wrap thumb and second finger around an opposite
wrist.
If you cannot touch finger to thumb, you have a thick wrist
and you are either big boned or fat, or both.

I couldn't get the gap below 12mm two years ago, but if I squeeze hard
enough,
I just can do it now.

But I have seen guys who have 12mm overlap, and it indicates a low bone
diameter to length ratio. Invariably, such guys are always faster on a
bicycle than I am
because they have at least my horsepower, but are 10kg lighter,
and when moving less body volume through air there is less drag,
and when going uphill, they are taking it easy while I am flogging
myself to death keeping up.

But when these light framed guys fall off, they very commonly come down
rapidly on a shoulder
and a collar bone snaps like a matchstick.

I have fallen twice very hard onto my shoulders, and broken nothing,
sore for 3 days,
back riding on day 4, racing again on day 10.

I should definately have been a rower, or perhaps a long distance
swimmer, not a cyclist,
but on the water there are no down hills, and in the pool there is only
the view
of the pool bottom, a black line, and its so boring compared to
the travel on wheels.

The fastest heavy tall man in pre 1996 Tours De France was Miguel
Indurain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Indurain
I have the same height and weight as Miguel.
But Miguel has a much much bigger internal engine than I was ever born
with.
I am quite feeble by comparison....

But Miguel does not understand triodes...

Patrick Turner.






Andre Jute

I took 4.5 hours and although I started 1/2 an hour before the main
field of maybe a 100 riders,
I was third to finish at 15minutes behind 2 guys of about 30, so
although I left 1/2 an hour early, I gave those guys a 30 year start
because I'm 60.
I wondered what kept them from passing me sooner than they did.

I rarely ever eat when I am on a ride these days. As one ages, nearly
everything one does gets more difficult
to do except being wise perhaps. But trying to digest food while on the
move on a bicycle
is not something that improves with age.
So I have never eaten during some of the 100km + training rides I do
around town.

108km is a small ride by TDF standards, but it sure tested me.
Potatoes seemed to be a reasonable fix but although they are natural
complex carbohydrate,
the calories per kg are low, and getting the calories to the muscles in
a long ride
is a being a little too optimistic. Simplistic ppl who think they can
just eat while riding
to make up for an absense of in-depth training are sorely dissapointed.
The body and its workings is far more complex than most ppl think, and
the
glossy sporting magazine articles advertize all this stuff to eat but I
doubt much works.

I didn't quite do enough training for this long ride and found I
was the living dead for the last 15kms, but then the wind was behind me
and the day was overcast
and it wasn't too hard a struggle. When 40 I could easily ride 150km in
such terrain.
But I must have done just enough training to get though.
I passed others who'd begun earlier in the 160km route which was harder,
and wondered
how they'd ever finish. It was obvious to me they had no idea that it
soon becomes MUCH more difficult to
ride up a steep hill of say 8% gradient which is a couple of kilometres
long than it is to ride a slight
steep rise in their local suburb, maybe 100metres long.
They didn't understand that after the first shocker of a really big
hill, there are maybe another
5 more to follow, and each one takes its toll, and after several hours
one's average speed
can drop dramatically, and regardless of how easy one tries to ride up
hill,
and how low the gearing is on the bike. After 100km, I was going
straight down to the lowest
gear I wisely chose, 39 front cog x 27 rear cog. At 40 I rode 42 x 23.
Age takes its toll.

You are right about Mars Bars and Coca Cola. Same goes for all the rest
of the absolute junk being sold
around the shops. Its basically all complete rot gut, and all makers of
this muck
should have their manufacturing licences cancelled and the shops fined
for selling non natural processed food.
Don't get me strarted on food, but most of what is making so many arses
so ****ing big
and health problems so large is the food industry and substance
industries.

I mentioned my slight discomfort at the tail end of a decent ride to a
young dude and he said
eat carbo gel products, presumably tailored to be more slowly be
absorbed
without the body having to work so hard to do that in addition to
prodiving an average of 200 watts
of mechanical power.

I have not tried his advice, but actually let myself get knocked up by
such hard and difficult things
so that the challenge better promotes fat loss and re-definition of
muscle structure.

18mths ago I was 95kg, but now I seem to have settled at 75kg, and its
extremely difficult to
get weight any lower. A skin fold test would reveal I had a HIGH
percentage of body fat of maybe 12%, as opposed to a lean
elite athlete who is typically 8%, and if I was 8% now I'd be slightly
faster up hills on the bike and
might possibly rank amoung the top national cyclists in my age group,
but I have NEVER been to of my heap ever.
Compared to the top riders of my age group who need to have a large
house with a couple of spare rooms for
all the sporting trophies thay have won, I have very few trophies to
show for a total now of about 110,000 kms I have ridden
since 1986. But I don't regret one single kilometre.
Between age 37 and 43 I rode 100,000km in training and weekly club
races.
The longer the race, the better I liked it. At club level, the elites
didn't get all the fame.
The handicapping system evened ppl out.
But the best time trial for 25miles or 40kms I ever did was 1.06, and
there were 3 guys
in the club between 47 and 53 who'd clock very close to the hour.
In a long race these guys didn't like the surging, and like me they
couldn't
sprint to save their lives, but against the clock on they own they were
masters of pain and style.
And they could maintain very unusually high heart rates for their age,
and most
were leaner than myself, to the point of looking emaciated.
There was an abundance of the athletic gene in their make up.
Not everyone has an abundance.
Its not any use for anyone to try to force oneself to be the build that
does not simply result from doing ample exercise and eating wisely.
There are cyclists I have known who'd start each season heavy, and after
a few rides
would lean down to racing weight with ease, and beat everyone else.
By comparision, I had to ride a lot further harder to get anywhere.

3 years ago, I had an operation on my knees and the doctors said I'd
soon need a pair of titanium and plastic
joints to stop the pain I was enduring. I couldn't even mow my own
lawns...
But the little cartlidge operation did improve things and I was able to
get back into best personal form
very close to where I was at age 40. Don't always believe doctors.
They couldn't really say what had caused them to become so sore, I sure
couldn't,
but their fix seemed to work.

Anyway, I thought riding a regular 200km a week would either wreck my
knees, and i would need the joints,
or it would improve my whole body, and stop the fast slide into fatness
and
rotting health that bedevils about 75% of the people I know of my age.

I have had good improvement to health, and ride much faster than most
ppl of 40,
and I have NEVER been passed on the road by anyone my age during the
last 18mths.

Knee pain has reduced to almost nothing, and unlike 3 years ago when I
couldn't
stand up talking to someone for 10 minutes withouty looking for a chair,
I am only slightly discomforted after a 100km ride, and there isn't any
serious pains the next day.

I also swim about 300metres daily which seems to be excellent for my
back.
Old verterbrea tend to slip out of place, and swimming is excellent for
the back,
and to balance the lack of motion of the arms while on the bike.

Steak and potatoes isn't too bad, but some ppl have too much steak and
too few potatoes,
and if they do eat potatoes, its in the form of deep fried chips full of
oil.

The natural human diet is 10% protein, 10% fat, and 80% complex
carbohydrate.
I have always tried to keep to this idea, but aduring 14 years of
doing very little exercize beyond lugging heavy tube amplifiers around,
I was putting on about 1.4kg per year. It could have been 3 kg, but I
know how to say no
to absurd helpings of food and gallons of beer when its offered.

As one toughens up to an exercize regime the body plays tricks because
it becomes far more efficent
and hence it becomes increasingly difficult to get to where the elite
natural athlete
is without having to try very hard.

This morning I was on the road at 6.30am, and did a couple of long big
hills in my course
of 65km. I caught and passed a number of people, and stopped for a chat
at the top of one hill.
It was beautiful early morning at the top with mist hanging on mountain
ranges and
definately had an out of this world feel about it. It elates all the
senses
to get out and do something.

Meanwhile, I think the worst horn sound I heard did use Foster 5"
speakers in tractrix horns
home made buy a guy who tried hard.
No success though. The sounded like the sound was trapped inside a close
wooden box.

There are many examples of horn speakers which are simply expensive
firewood.

Patrick Turner.



Inevitably, I collected the name, Potato Pat, and I didn't mind. I had
the full license to use potatoes winningly as I wanted. Why now, I was
tree quarters Irish, because of me Irish mum, and because of me dad,
two turds English.

Well now, Padraig...

And now, yeah, what is an FE127?

Are they not Foster five inch drivers?

Yeah, I shoulda seen the clue in Mick's "mad box building" but I took
that to mean he was drilling a chassis for these weird FE127es tubes...

Fostex, eh? I heard about them: Japanese-style Lowther type point source
speaks with whizzer cones. Said to be very nice indeed in tapered
quarter wave pipes. Indeed, I once published a design that could be used
interchangeably with 8in Lowthers and the equivalent Fostex drivers,
with someone reporting on the single driver conference that the Fostex
went a bit deeper in my design than the Lowther. Personally, I hated the
design, because with the Lowther it was very sensitive to just how you
stuffed the area behind the driver, otherwise you got a screechy treble
overwhelming everything, which had to be fixed with stupid little tufts
of wool between the whizzer and the main cone; I hate that sort of
kludging, and don't care overly much for those who try to promote it as
"tweaking". In my Fidelio type horns the Lowthers work without that

...

read more

[mick]

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:44:23 +0000, Patrick Turner wrote:

snip

But Miguel does not understand triodes...



A very enjoyable ramble. I note that you'll go to extreme lengths to stay
on topic though! :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

[Patrick Turner]

mick wrote:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:44:23 +0000, Patrick Turner wrote:

snip

But Miguel does not understand triodes...


A very enjoyable ramble. I note that you'll go to extreme lengths to stay
on topic though! :-)

99% of readers at rec.audio.tubes are probably not into riding a
bicycle.
90% proably regard bicyle travel of any kind to be third world transport
and extremely prone to bad accidents happening, and if what I have heard
about
most US cities is true, i wouldn't want to ride a bicycle anywhere in
the US.


However, one Lance Armstrong did challenge other Texan road uses with
his presence
and live to win the TDF a record 7 times in a row. What he had to say to
drivers of cars, lorries and buses isn't flattering after they all took
turns to casually
run him off the road umpteen times while he was out training.
Just think, surviving the traffic in Texas on a bicycle
takes some doing. But maybe Sydney traffic is worse.
Lance also survived a very life threatening bout of testicular cancer
before winning those 7 in a row.

Lance doesn't know much about triodes either.

But a bicycle can make a weak flabby gutted man into a tiger of fitness,
which most ppl of 60 try to avoid being. They might die.
Well of course ya might ****in die. Any time.
But a guy I raced when he was in his 70s about 20 years ago just died at
age 91.
Hubert Opperman died after riding bikes all his life at 90.

For the 1% who dream of an alternative existance, a bicycle is a way to
get there.

I also hate gymnasiums, with the smell of sweat, grubby gear, loud
music,
enclosed space, anti social and unconvivial atmosphere, being fenced in,
jerks selling steroids, and so on, etc, so give wide open spaces, a
vacant road ahead...

On cool days a following breeze is welcome, and on hot days a headwind
keeps you cooler than a tail wind.

I don't take boiled potatoes on rides with me now. They actually are
hard to digest when on the move.
I just take clean water, or sometimes green tea.

I find the severe exercize suppresses hunger until I have done over
100km,
when I begin to dream of roast beef surrounded by baked potatoes.
But I never eat such a meal.

It appears my body has wised up to the tricks my mind plays upon it,
and despite the permanence of my frugal diet eating loads of greens and
adequate small quanties of bread and complex carbohydrates and lean
meats,
it refuses to get leaner.

Had I tried to lose weight by diet alone it would have been a complete
failure.

One needs to create a calorie account deficit.
8 hours of cycling with heart rate 50% above resting give an average
weight person
a calorie use of about 400 per hour above what it is while working in an
office or relaxing at home being sedantary.
8 hours equals 3,200 calories. But because one rides say 3 days a week
to manage 8 hours a week total,
the metabolism is speeded up outside excercize times and you burn a lot
more.
There are 9,000 calories in a kilogram of fat, oil, butter etc.
So without much trouble I managed to burn off 9,000 calories worth of
fat each week of cycling.
Sugars, dry weight of carborhydrates and protein have about 4,500
calories per kilogram.
So a few spoonfuls of sugar in coffee is OK, but forget thak ****in Coca
Cola and other fizzy drinks.

Modern western nation McDonald's type food is 80% fats and nutrient free
sugar with chemicals.
only 20% is good for you with the small amount of necessary proteins for
more than adequate survival.

So if you eat wrong, change this to eating 10% of fats and nutrient
sugars,
and 10% of proteins, and 80% of complex unrefined carbohydrates.
Learn what IS in food, and realize what the *******s of industry have
removed,
and what they are slowly poisoning you with; eg, hyrogenated fats for
making food stay
"fresh" for months on store sheleves. These are bad for the heart.
Its years since I bought butter or margerine, and i just use olive oil
on
the salads I make from whatever fresh green vegtables are low priced on
the day in the store.
Good eating does not need to be expensive, and although I enjoy a meal
at my
regular cafe weekly, I laugh at the small amount of grenery appearing on
my plate.


For me there was only one way to lose weight, pedal the fat off.
It came of at a kilogram a week
for several months, then the loss leveled abruptly, despite the
continuation
of eating plenty of stuff with very few calories, but with plenty
of vitamins and minerals. Most ppl's bodies crave these things, but they
are
missing from most processed foods on supermarket shelves.
Processesd food is laced with corn syrup and chemicals to make you want
more and buy more.
And you make a vain attempt to gain balanced nutrition by eating this
junk food
to get the nutrition values which food companies find un-profitable to
sell.
Because people with lotsa domani are sitting ducks for the disease of
affluenza,
they get large waists and eat more because they get a kind of mental
compulsion
which is an anxiety symptom built into affluenza. Well off people do not
eat
because they are hungry.


So I figured my body easily switched to fat fuel for awhile, and when
the fat tank got low,
my body decided to change again and become much more efficient, and even
looking at
a cake forsale at a cafe makes my body gain weight. To explain its
refusal to continue
losing weight, I think it probably now derives energy from plant
materials
which were previously just passed along because easier targets were
available,
and low energy demands were being made, and testosterone was low with
it.

For millions of years our bodies evolved to look for food because we got
hungry,
and we all got hungry because we'd worked to find food.
Never having quite enough is good for you.

Heart disease rates plummeted in the UK during WW2 when food was
rationed.

The Poms still beat Germany though.

Both sides did know about triodes though.

And in fact, without many boxfulls of triodes, it was difficult to
reduce the
average life expectancy resulting from war, not a happy consideration.
One does need a box of triodes in a tank or a V2 rocket.
The wartime healthier leaner population tended to live longer and have
less serious road accidents
because they mostly rode a bicycle to work, and ate sparingly.
Pictures from the period show women never looking so fresh, beautiful
and natural and slim.
After WW2, these very ppl all junked the bike, bought a car, and killed
each other on the roads
instead of shooting enemies and being shot.
Then they ate too much, drank far too much, got fat, and died early.
Just whether they were happier is a moot point.

The up and coming generation of youngsters is PC screen fixated, and
dominated by communication operated by thumb presses.
They are bombarded by BS for much of their time on Earth,
and they give in to BS so easily. Affluenza is creating an Earth not
worth livin on.
Too much hot air and combustion product.
They are tending to become fat arse zombies incapable and unwilling to
do
anything very much compared to previous generations - except
getting things they think they want as cheaply and easily as possible.

There is a silver lining though. As ppl become more affluent, money
oriented, and educated,
they tend to become far more selfish and dysfunctional in relationships.
The rising divorce rate proves it. So then they have less children.
The younger generation can see how difficult it is to go through a life
and that making new children are a big sacrifice, and for the young,
"sacrifice" is a complete no-no.

So when your son of 32 laments his wife just left him for yet another
set of boring
frivolus reasons, rejoice, for it is an excellent result for the Planet.

What the world needs is one child per couple absolute maximum until we
get the problems fixed first
to permit more than 1, but I doubt that will ever happen because
youthful love
propels pregnancy rates and is all about irrationality,
and doing things without thinking of the real issues and consequences
while having an extended wish list for affluent living.

Patrick Turner.








--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net