Hello there,

I wanted to ask if anyone would have any opinion about this...

I'm recording in the following setup:

- mainly vocals & acoustic guitar w/ AKG 414 and electric guitar, mic'ed w/
SM57
-, through Mackie 1202 vlz Pro (with RNC in in the channel inserts) to
- Layla 20, using Cubase SX

I connect the Mackie through main Out L & R to Layla. However I remember
someone commenting on RAP that when recording through Mackie, I should
bypass the Mackie eq, and use the channel inserts to send the signal from
Mackie to Layla. The idea of it being that the eq of Mackie isn't of too
good a quality.

I *could* eq my tracks in SX (where I have the SX eq & numerous plugins)
after recording.

Do you guys have any opinions whether I should try to bypass the Mackie eq
or not? In a way it would make sense, since I would want the signal to be
recorded as "colourless" as possible, capturing only the "colour" that the
mic and mic placement provides. In that case I would just send the signal
from channel inserts to the RNC and from there on to Layla.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!


Kalle (from Finland)

Whatever sounds good to you, really ...
Play with the mic placement to minimize
the need of eq for a start.

-CS

"Luckyman" wrote in
:

I connect the Mackie through main Out L & R to Layla. However I
remember someone commenting on RAP that when recording through Mackie,
I should bypass the Mackie eq, and use the channel inserts to send the
signal from Mackie to Layla. The idea of it being that the eq of
Mackie isn't of too good a quality.

Come out of the RNC directly into your Layla. The EQ on the Mackie (a) is
not spectacular and (b) hasn't got a fraction of the flexibility of your
software EQ's.

Another reason to use the insert is to avoid the Mackie's summing buss.
It's not ugly, but won't add anything to your recording.

Thanks for the answers guys, I'll think I use the inserts to connect to
Layla then.

Kalle

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message
. 206...
"Luckyman" wrote in
:

I connect the Mackie through main Out L & R to Layla. However I
remember someone commenting on RAP that when recording through Mackie,
I should bypass the Mackie eq, and use the channel inserts to send the
signal from Mackie to Layla. The idea of it being that the eq of
Mackie isn't of too good a quality.

Come out of the RNC directly into your Layla. The EQ on the Mackie (a) is
not spectacular and (b) hasn't got a fraction of the flexibility of your
software EQ's.

Another reason to use the insert is to avoid the Mackie's summing buss.
It's not ugly, but won't add anything to your recording.

"Luckyman" wrote in message
news
Thanks for the answers guys, I'll think I use the inserts to connect to
Layla then.

Doing this right for minimal hum and noise takes a special cable.

Obtain a TRS-TRS cable that you can disassemble and re-wire. Take the end
you are going to plug into the Mackie insert jack, and unsolder all the
connections.

(1) Trim and insulate the shield.

(2) Solder the negative signal wire to the shield connection on the TRS
connector.

(3) Solder the positive signal wire to the tip and ring connections on the
TRS connector.

Ensure that the chassis of the Layla and the Mackie console have some kind
of common ground, which usually happens by "electrical osmosis". The Lyala20
chassis is grounded by the 3-wire power plug.

"PhilW" wrote in message
news:R8S1b.9464$Qy4.3064@fed1read05...
I think you'd get better quality sound by replacing the Mackie with a good
mic preamp, because you're not really mixing a lot of input, just using
the
Mackie preamps (ignoring using its eq). Many people think highly of the
Really Nice Preamp from FMR, and it has inserts for the RNC.


Many people think highly of the VLZ-Pro preamps too. I'd be more worried
about room or mic nise ....


geoff

Luckyman wrote:
I connect the Mackie through main Out L & R to Layla. However I remember
someone commenting on RAP that when recording through Mackie, I should
bypass the Mackie eq, and use the channel inserts to send the signal from
Mackie to Layla. The idea of it being that the eq of Mackie isn't of too
good a quality.

Yes, this also bypasses the routing stuff as well, which is also good.

I *could* eq my tracks in SX (where I have the SX eq & numerous plugins)
after recording.

How much EQ do you use anyway?

Do you guys have any opinions whether I should try to bypass the Mackie eq
or not? In a way it would make sense, since I would want the signal to be
recorded as "colourless" as possible, capturing only the "colour" that the
mic and mic placement provides. In that case I would just send the signal
from channel inserts to the RNC and from there on to Layla.

Of course you should TRY it! It'll only take ten minutes to try, and either
you'll like working that way or you won't.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Kalle,

You should record from the direct preamp output when possible. Not that the
Mackie's mixer section is lousy, because it's not. But when using ANY gear
it's best to go through the fewest possible circuits.

I *could* eq my tracks in SX (where I have the SX eq & numerous plugins)
after recording.

It's always better to defer EQ and other processing if you can. If you EQ or
compress and later don't like it, it's difficult to reverse.

--Ethan

Hi again,

I *could* eq my tracks in SX (where I have the SX eq & numerous plugins)
after recording.

How much EQ do you use anyway?

Well I use eq very rarely in the situation when I record. I try to solve any
eq problem with mic positioning and changing the signal at the source.
However, I do eq quite a bit at the mixing stage.

Of course you should TRY it! It'll only take ten minutes to try, and
either
you'll like working that way or you won't.
--scott

I know, the old saying "trust your ears". The problem is not so much the
physical routing (wiring) but more of an issue of which way is better
soundquality-wise. But since I have don't have decades of recording
experience (yet), I now and then sadly notice at the mixdown stage that I
have made bad decicions when recording the tracks. For example, I sometimes
have problems with using the compressor the best effective way, or I fail to
hear what is dynamic and what's not. But I'm learning, and I have fun doing
it

I was was looking for some hard, techical facts that I could base my
decicion upon. Which I got, and I thank you for that. Gotta go now, my
patchbay is crying out to re-arrange him.


Regards, Kalle

I'm recording in the following setup:

- mainly vocals & acoustic guitar w/ AKG 414 and electric guitar, mic'ed
w/
SM57
-, through Mackie 1202 vlz Pro (with RNC in in the channel inserts) to
- Layla 20, using Cubase SX

I connect the Mackie through main Out L & R to Layla. However I remember
someone commenting on RAP that when recording through Mackie, I should
bypass the Mackie eq, and use the channel inserts to send the signal from
Mackie to Layla. The idea of it being that the eq of Mackie isn't of too
good a quality.

I *could* eq my tracks in SX (where I have the SX eq & numerous plugins)
after recording.

For what you're doing I'd sell the Mackie and the RNC and get a decent dual
preamp, like a Presonus MP20.

"Sugarite" wrote in message


Doing this right for minimal hum and noise takes a special cable.

Obtain a TRS-TRS cable that you can disassemble and re-wire. Take
the end you are going to plug into the Mackie insert jack, and
unsolder all the connections.

(1) Trim and insulate the shield.

(2) Solder the negative signal wire to the shield connection on the
TRS connector.

(3) Solder the positive signal wire to the tip and ring connections
on the TRS connector.

Why not just use standard 1/4" unbalanced patchcord and only insert
into the Mackie insert half-way (1st 'notch')?

(1) Stability of having jacks fully seated
(2) Exploit benefits of balanced input

It's the coupling of
the ground and return connecitons you're trying to avoid right?

No.

Mackie inserts accomplish exactly that with half-insertion, and the
RNC is unbalanced.

Right.

This was discussed in detail a few weeks ago in this post:

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=Np...%40comcast.com

Two things. One, a halfway insertion can easily be unstable or pulled out.
And secondly, if you want to have absolute ground correct, it's best to use
all of a jack, because it's just simply made to have a plug fully inserted.
Connections, cables, etc., can all be bad enough as it is, but you just ask
for trouble by using a half insert. Nothing like looking down and seeing
one missing track because an insert shorted out. If one records from the
insert points it makes sense to spend a little time and make cables that
will work better. I love things that require minimum investment of time and
materials and saves you tons of work later.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Sugarite" wrote in message
...
Doing this right for minimal hum and noise takes a special cable.

Obtain a TRS-TRS cable that you can disassemble and re-wire. Take the
end
you are going to plug into the Mackie insert jack, and unsolder all the
connections.

(1) Trim and insulate the shield.

(2) Solder the negative signal wire to the shield connection on the TRS
connector.

(3) Solder the positive signal wire to the tip and ring connections on
the
TRS connector.

Why not just use standard 1/4" unbalanced patchcord and only insert into
the
Mackie insert half-way (1st 'notch')? It's the coupling of the ground and
return connecitons you're trying to avoid right? Mackie inserts
accomplish
exactly that with half-insertion, and the RNC is unbalanced.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
Two things. One, a halfway insertion can easily be unstable or pulled
out.
And secondly, if you want to have absolute ground correct, it's best to
use
all of a jack, because it's just simply made to have a plug fully
inserted.
Connections, cables, etc., can all be bad enough as it is, but you just
ask
for trouble by using a half insert. Nothing like looking down and seeing
one missing track because an insert shorted out.

I recorded a live performance at church this way once. When the preacher
got up to speak I couldn't figure out where that distortion was coming from.
Finally, I wiggled the insert cable and crystal clear.

I just saved those instructions for later.

Why? If you got it right in the tracking, unless you record a lot of two
Les Paul guitar bands, the eq should still be right when you do playback.
What is the marked propensity to grab EQ all the time?

I can understand taking all the lows out of a flute or all the highs out of
a kick, but other than simply saving a little headroom, I don't find much
use for EQ if I got the tracks right. Not that it happens all that often!
g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Luckyman" wrote in message
...
Hi again,

I *could* eq my tracks in SX (where I have the SX eq & numerous
plugins)
after recording.

How much EQ do you use anyway?

Well I use eq very rarely in the situation when I record. I try to solve
any
eq problem with mic positioning and changing the signal at the source.
However, I do eq quite a bit at the mixing stage.

Of course you should TRY it! It'll only take ten minutes to try, and
either
you'll like working that way or you won't.
--scott

I know, the old saying "trust your ears". The problem is not so much the
physical routing (wiring) but more of an issue of which way is better
soundquality-wise. But since I have don't have decades of recording
experience (yet), I now and then sadly notice at the mixdown stage that I
have made bad decicions when recording the tracks. For example, I
sometimes
have problems with using the compressor the best effective way, or I fail
to
hear what is dynamic and what's not. But I'm learning, and I have fun
doing
it

I was was looking for some hard, techical facts that I could base my
decicion upon. Which I got, and I thank you for that. Gotta go now, my
patchbay is crying out to re-arrange him.


Regards, Kalle

Two things. One, a halfway insertion can easily be unstable or pulled
out.

If you're that cliumsy, how do you expect to do a reasonable solder joint on
the custom cable then?

And secondly, if you want to have absolute ground correct,

No such animal exists...

it's best to use
all of a jack, because it's just simply made to have a plug fully
inserted.

Mackie's are simply made to accommodate half-insertion, that first
connection pin is rather stiff for a reason, and the ground contact pressure
is not significantly less than when fully inserted, rtfm. It's one of the
few aspects that are done right on a Mackie.

Connections, cables, etc., can all be bad enough as it is, but you just
ask
for trouble by using a half insert. Nothing like looking down and seeing
one missing track because an insert shorted out.

The guy in question is recording one track at a time, surely he will notice
if it's popped out or not connecting well, and then consider pulling out the
soldering gun.

If one records from the
insert points it makes sense to spend a little time and make cables that
will work better. I love things that require minimum investment of time
and
materials and saves you tons of work later.

Like buying a mixer specifically designed for half-insertion...