I have some noise in my system. Alternator whine.

I have followed the FAQ, checked grounds, used shorting plugs and have come
to a definite conclusion (after messing with it for 3 hours) that my RCAs
are causing the problem.

I have ripped the RCAs from under the carpet and created a straight path in
the air going from the HU to the AMP(above the seats).

Noise remains.

I replace the ZN 2.0 RCAs with an older set of lower quality Sound Quest
RCAs and whine diminshes.

I replace those with the el cheapo $2 rcas (hell I even used barrels to
connect two sets as they were shorter) and the noise goes away.

What the heck? It seems logical to me to go and buy the cheapest pair of
RCAs and replace mine and problem solved.

Contrary to what most people say there seems to be no diff in sound quality
when I switch to the el cheapos.

I just can't get myself to go out and buy el cheapos, it seems like I am
going backwards.

any thoughts? this is very frustrating. now my car is all apart and I can't
figure out what to do. I don't want a high freq filter because I was told it
can cause problems with sound quality.

I have some noise in my system. Alternator whine.

I have followed the FAQ, checked grounds, used shorting plugs and have come
to a definite conclusion (after messing with it for 3 hours) that my RCAs
are causing the problem.

I have ripped the RCAs from under the carpet and created a straight path in
the air going from the HU to the AMP(above the seats).

Noise remains.

I replace the ZN 2.0 RCAs with an older set of lower quality Sound Quest
RCAs and whine diminshes.

I replace those with the el cheapo $2 rcas (hell I even used barrels to
connect two sets as they were shorter) and the noise goes away.

What the heck? It seems logical to me to go and buy the cheapest pair of
RCAs and replace mine and problem solved.

Contrary to what most people say there seems to be no diff in sound quality
when I switch to the el cheapos.

I just can't get myself to go out and buy el cheapos, it seems like I am
going backwards.

any thoughts? this is very frustrating. now my car is all apart and I can't
figure out what to do. I don't want a high freq filter because I was told it
can cause problems with sound quality.





My guess would be that one of the cables you had in there was damaged somehow.


Nick

My guess would be that one of the cables you had in there was damaged
somehow.


Nick


Nah man, I have tried different pairs, and the cheaper I go the less noise
there is.

Oh another thing to mention. I unplugged the HU ground. Noise level didn't
change at all.
Maybe it's not the RCAs? Should I try running it straight to the battery?
It's hard to find bare metal in my 2002 VW.



"Z. Gluhak" wrote in message
...
I have some noise in my system. Alternator whine.

I have followed the FAQ, checked grounds, used shorting plugs and have
come
to a definite conclusion (after messing with it for 3 hours) that my RCAs
are causing the problem.

I have ripped the RCAs from under the carpet and created a straight path
in
the air going from the HU to the AMP(above the seats).

Noise remains.

I replace the ZN 2.0 RCAs with an older set of lower quality Sound Quest
RCAs and whine diminshes.

I replace those with the el cheapo $2 rcas (hell I even used barrels to
connect two sets as they were shorter) and the noise goes away.

What the heck? It seems logical to me to go and buy the cheapest pair of
RCAs and replace mine and problem solved.

Contrary to what most people say there seems to be no diff in sound
quality
when I switch to the el cheapos.

I just can't get myself to go out and buy el cheapos, it seems like I am
going backwards.

any thoughts? this is very frustrating. now my car is all apart and I
can't
figure out what to do. I don't want a high freq filter because I was told
it
can cause problems with sound quality.

My guess would be that one of the cables you had in there was damaged
somehow.


Nick


Nah man, I have tried different pairs, and the cheaper I go the less noise
there is.

Nick is right. Metal is metal, so there's no inherent difference between
designs (for audio purposes). The difference must be in the integrity of
the wires. It's very easy to cause a break.

I was thinking that possibly the costlier cable was picking up noise through
the shield.


"MZ" wrote in message
...
My guess would be that one of the cables you had in there was damaged
somehow.


Nick


Nah man, I have tried different pairs, and the cheaper I go the less
noise
there is.

Nick is right. Metal is metal, so there's no inherent difference between
designs (for audio purposes). The difference must be in the integrity of
the wires. It's very easy to cause a break.

"Z. Gluhak" wrote in message
...

My guess would be that one of the cables you had in there was damaged
somehow.


Nick


Nah man, I have tried different pairs, and the cheaper I go the less noise
there is.



Then its obvious its not the RCAs the cheaper/better shouldnt make much of
a difference, i could maybe understand if it was when you went to cheaper
RCA's you got noise, but when you go to higher quality and still get noise,
that makes absolutley no sense in my mind.

Some vehicles have bad body grounds, have you tryed replacing the braided
wire to the engine block under the hood? the battery cables? the alternator
cables? As an experiement, directly ground the system to the battery. Does
the noise disappear? Obviously the noise only comes when the car is on if
its alternator noise.

I can understand why you wouldnt want to go with cheap RCA's, the sound
quality is no different, yes. But the build quality is ****ty. The
connectors can come off easy, the wire inside can rip easy, basically they
wont take as much road abuse. I myself wouldnt go with a cheaper brand
audio item just to eliminate noise. It shouldnt be that way.

I think theres something wrong somewhere with the car or the audio gear.

Good Luck
DJ TecThreat

I was thinking that possibly the costlier cable was picking up noise
through
the shield.

Highly doubtful, especially when you ran it in the air.

Then its obvious its not the RCAs the cheaper/better shouldnt make much
of
a difference, i could maybe understand if it was when you went to cheaper
RCA's you got noise, but when you go to higher quality and still get
noise,
that makes absolutley no sense in my mind.

This cheap/expensive thing is just a red herring. It most likely is the
RCAs because he uses one set and gets no noise. If you've got a break or a
strand pulling loose, it doesn't matter whether you've spent 50 cents on it
or 20 thousand dollars on it.

I don't know but if there is one thing time can be wasted on, it's taking
your car apart to get nowhere. I've spent like all day on this, have
learned nothing and have accomplished nothing.
Hell I'll just keep trying.

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Then its obvious its not the RCAs the cheaper/better shouldnt make much
of
a difference, i could maybe understand if it was when you went to
cheaper
RCA's you got noise, but when you go to higher quality and still get
noise,
that makes absolutley no sense in my mind.

This cheap/expensive thing is just a red herring. It most likely is the
RCAs because he uses one set and gets no noise. If you've got a break or
a
strand pulling loose, it doesn't matter whether you've spent 50 cents on
it
or 20 thousand dollars on it.

Z. Gluhak wrote:
I have some noise in my system. Alternator whine.

I have followed the FAQ, checked grounds, used shorting plugs and have come
to a definite conclusion (after messing with it for 3 hours) that my RCAs
are causing the problem.

I have ripped the RCAs from under the carpet and created a straight path in
the air going from the HU to the AMP(above the seats).

Noise remains.

I replace the ZN 2.0 RCAs with an older set of lower quality Sound Quest
RCAs and whine diminshes.

ZN cables contain a small ferrite wound bobbins (aka a coil) that can
actually cause noise problems. They can pick up high frequency noise
from elsewhere. They also create a high-impedance ground path which can
lead to ground loops.

I replace those with the el cheapo $2 rcas (hell I even used barrels to
connect two sets as they were shorter) and the noise goes away.

What the heck? It seems logical to me to go and buy the cheapest pair of
RCAs and replace mine and problem solved.

Basically, that's it. But if you've been using ZN cables all along, and
the noise just appeared one day, then its merely a symptom. Something
else may have gone wrong in your system, so double check all of your
grounds again.

Contrary to what most people say there seems to be no diff in sound quality
when I switch to the el cheapos.

Most people believe the hype. The $2 RCAs are perfectly fine. The $20
RCA's might have properties which make them better suited to being in a
car for a long time, but they won't affect the sound.

I just can't get myself to go out and buy el cheapos, it seems like I am
going backwards.

It works. Logic dictates you should do it.

any thoughts? this is very frustrating. now my car is all apart and I can't
figure out what to do. I don't want a high freq filter because I was told it
can cause problems with sound quality.

Why are you confused? Because you did some thinking for yourself, and it
contradicts what everyone else has told you? You have found the problem,
you have found the solution, and you have done it through competent
troubleshooting. Now plug the el-cheapos in, sell your ZN 2.0's on e-bay
to the next maroon who pays more for the hype, and enjoy your audio
whine-free!



--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.

Thanks Lizard.

DJ TecThreat wrote:

Then its obvious its not the RCAs the cheaper/better shouldnt make much of
a difference, i could maybe understand if it was when you went to cheaper
RCA's you got noise, but when you go to higher quality and still get noise,
that makes absolutley no sense in my mind.

Its obvious? Cheaper/better shouldn't make a difference, but then you
say you could understand if he went to cheaper RCA's and got noise. It
makes no sense?

Did your your mom smoke a lot of pot and do margarita shooters when she
was pregnant with you?

Some vehicles have bad body grounds, have you tryed replacing the braided
wire to the engine block under the hood? the battery cables? the alternator
cables? As an experiement, directly ground the system to the battery. Does
the noise disappear? Obviously the noise only comes when the car is on if
its alternator noise.

*Sigh*. Why don't you have him replace the cars entire wiring harness
just because you're a clueless newbie.

I can understand why you wouldnt want to go with cheap RCA's, the sound
quality is no different, yes. But the build quality is ****ty. The
connectors can come off easy, the wire inside can rip easy, basically they
wont take as much road abuse.

They're going to be laying under a carpet. He's not using them to swing
the amp around over his head. He's not towing a jet-ski with them.

I myself wouldnt go with a cheaper brand
audio item just to eliminate noise. It shouldnt be that way.

No, you're absolutely right. He should pay big dollars and suffer the noise.

I think theres something wrong somewhere with the car or the audio gear.

Thank you for that STUNNING and INSIGHTFUL analysis of the situation.
Your amazing and intuitive grasp of the obvious is simply incredible.
Where would we be without your intelligence?

Here, I got something for ya: http://www.teamrocs.com/crap/newbie.html

Now stop giving advice, and go away, before you hurt yourself, or
someone else.


--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.

MZ wrote:

This cheap/expensive thing is just a red herring. It most likely is the
RCAs because he uses one set and gets no noise. If you've got a break or a
strand pulling loose, it doesn't matter whether you've spent 50 cents on it
or 20 thousand dollars on it.

The poster also stated that he had tried different sets. IME, ZN rca's
are noise prone because of that little HF filter they put in there. If
he's been using them all along without a problem, then something may
have happenned elsewhere in the system to cause a ground loop through
the RCAs.

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.

I'm not actually able to look at this car. I cant determine an exact problem
from however far away i am from this guy.

Its obvious? Cheaper/better shouldn't make a difference, but then you
say you could understand if he went to cheaper RCA's and got noise. It
makes no sense?

You really miss-understood what i said, which is sad. Have you been tested
for dyslexia? Honestly here, all i said was the cheaper or more expensive
RCA's should not make any difference at all. BUT a cheaper pair of RCA's may
have something wrong with them from the beginning a broken wire, etc..
Thats really all i meant. But you were just looking for some way to try and
make feel or look like ****, werent you?

Did your your mom smoke a lot of pot and do margarita shooters when she
was pregnant with you?

Nope. My mother was not an alcoholic or a drug addict. Did your mother smoke
a lot of pot and do margarita shooters when she was pregnant with you??

*Sigh*. Why don't you have him replace the cars entire wiring harness
just because you're a clueless newbie

Its evident you didnt see where i was going with that.. The wires i asked
him if he replaced are commonly replaced in cars when the system is
upgraded, if its done right. It depends on what car we'd be talking about,
but some cars have cheaper-low quality power systems than others.

They're going to be laying under a carpet. He's not using them to swing
the amp around over his head. He's not towing a jet-ski with them.

No, you're right. But i'd rather spend an extra $10, get a decent pair of
RCA's and not have to rip my car apart to replace them if they should go bad
in say- a few months.

No, you're absolutely right. He should pay big dollars and suffer the
noise.

No, see you miss-understood, again. What you got screwed up is, You should
NOT have to sacrifice build quality for sound quality AND vice versa. Thats
why i said it had to be something else in his system. He didnt tell us
exactly what he is running, so i cant even begin to tell him what it might
possibly be.

Thank you for that STUNNING and INSIGHTFUL analysis of the situation.
Your amazing and intuitive grasp of the obvious is simply incredible.
Where would we be without your intelligence?

Hey, i never said i was smart.. Hell, not many people here value my opinion,
in fact, i dont think there is one person on this newsgroup that can say
i've helped them out. But i know what i'm doing because in my shop, my
installs are done right, very very few come back with problems, and the ones
that do usually arent install related. My customers like my advice becuase i
dont try to up-sell them on gear or the install. I sell them what they need
to make it sound the way they want, nothing more, nothing less.

Here, I got something for ya: http://www.teamrocs.com/crap/newbie.html

Ha, very funny, litterally.. I've seen this before, i'm not unfamiliar to
the TeamROCS website.. i see a few of the members on here, cant say i've
seen you around here very often. But i remember the name from when i was
lurking here in 2000, you also went by the name "The Lizard", correct?

DJ TecThreat
The Real Threat

No. Lots of so-called High End cables are junk. They often have way
too much reactance.

You go wrong with Hosa.

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/audio.html



On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:17:29 -0500, "MZ"
wrote:

My guess would be that one of the cables you had in there was damaged
somehow.


Nick


Nah man, I have tried different pairs, and the cheaper I go the less noise
there is.

Nick is right. Metal is metal, so there's no inherent difference between
designs (for audio purposes). The difference must be in the integrity of
the wires. It's very easy to cause a break.

No. Lots of so-called High End cables are junk. They often have way
too much reactance.

You go wrong with Hosa.

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/audio.html

Unless these manufacturers are intentionally putting inductors or capacitors
in the signal path, it's virtually impossible for the cable composition and
the geometry of the cable to introduce a significant amount of reactance.
Not only that, but for the case of high impedance preamp signals, the
reactance would have to be sky high for it to elicit any kind of effect.

"Z. Gluhak" wrote:

I have some noise in my system. Alternator whine.
I have followed the FAQ, checked grounds, used shorting plugs and have come
to a definite conclusion (after messing with it for 3 hours) that my RCAs
are causing the problem.

In 30 years of installling I have NEVER used shorting plugs to get rid of
noise problems.... WOnder who came up with that..??

I have ripped the RCAs from under the carpet and created a straight path in
the air going from the HU to the AMP(above the seats).
Noise remains.
I replace the ZN 2.0 RCAs with an older set of lower quality Sound Quest
RCAs and whine diminshes.

I replace those with the el cheapo $2 rcas (hell I even used barrels to
connect two sets as they were shorter) and the noise goes away.

Your done then!

What the heck? It seems logical to me to go and buy the cheapest pair of
RCAs and replace mine and problem solved.

Your learnin!

Contrary to what most people say there seems to be no diff in sound quality
when I switch to the el cheapos.

Of course not... there isnt enough current in RCA wires for there to be any
significant voltage drop, and other TWEEKY things just arent hearable..
Cheap cables sound great!

I just can't get myself to go out and buy el cheapos, it seems like I am
going backwards.

I once did a test in a very very high end home store, comparing the cheapest
used RCAs from my shop trashcan and we compared them to a very high end
$2650.00 per meter RCA cable and not one of the salesman could hear a
difference using an A/B switcher...

any thoughts? this is very frustrating. now my car is all apart and I can't
figure out what to do. I don't want a high freq filter because I was told it
can cause problems with sound quality.

Just use the cheap cable...!

Eddie Runner

In 30 years of installling I have NEVER used shorting plugs to get rid of
noise problems.... WOnder who came up with that..??


I read it in the RAC FAQ. I was trying to follow answers already written.

Apparently if you short the input on the amp (at the amp) and noise remains,
it's the amp making the noise.

yeah, but if you simply pull out the RCAs and the noise is still there
then you get the same results... Dunno why anyone would need shorting plugs.

And this wouldnt mean it was the amp, it would only mean it may not
be the RCA or the headunit...

Typicly if the amp does still make noise it is usually a shorted speaker wire
(to ground) or some other issue with the signal path... On some amps they
dont like to be screwed to metal of the car...

but if the noise goes away it means these things are probably OK...

Eddie

Z Gluhak wrote:

In 30 years of installling I have NEVER used shorting plugs to get rid of
noise problems.... WOnder who came up with that..??


I read it in the RAC FAQ. I was trying to follow answers already written.

Apparently if you short the input on the amp (at the amp) and noise remains,
it's the amp making the noise.

Im not so sure price has anything to do with it. Look at how the cheapo
are designed (or find the web page that tells you). Its the combinatio
of materials and how they are constructed irregardless of price. Mayb
the expensive ones use top notch materials, but dont braid. And mayb
the cheapos use a cheap simple aluminum sheath thats ghetto... bu
works..
-
rpgonzale
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online
View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthr...threadid=17773

Me neither. I just followed the r.a.c FAQ or at least I think I was. I
spent $3.50 at radio shack on some cheap made phono plugs and shorted the
connections, soldering. for what?

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
yeah, but if you simply pull out the RCAs and the noise is still there
then you get the same results... Dunno why anyone would need shorting
plugs.