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I work in retail but have extensive of built-in sound system operation, from prior hotel & corporate office venues.


The system in our shop is pretty straight forward, similar to: http://www.proacousticsusa.com/produ....php?pId=25575

I have only seen the front of the final amp, and do not know the actual make/model. I can say from left to right it's about 12" wide by 6" high, with(left to right) knobs Mic1, Mic2, Aux, Bass, Treb, VOL.

All of the knobs are between 11-1 o'clock, except "Aux" - which controls the internet-fed background music and POP spots heard every 10 minutes, tailored to each store. Aux is down around 7-8 o'clock, or just above 1 on the knob scale 0-10.


We have a general and two asst mgrs set the music at different vols depending on who opens for the business day, but the problem is it seems a small range of adjustment(IE from 1 to halfway between 1 & 2 on the knob) produces a BLAST in volume! lol

I did manage a glimpse at the system while the general manager was adjusting it(typically to a whisper), and later offered to help him adjust settings to reduce this leverage. Of course he said, It's fine the way it is, politely though.

My suggestion would be simple enough: Lower the level of the audio coming from the PC feeding the music/store ads by a small amount, which would allow the Aux knob on the PA to be turned up into a more useful range of operation.


My idea is that lowering the input into that amp, would allow finer volume adjustment(having to move the knob a little more either way to set it, wihout blasting it or completely muting it), especially after turning it down for our monthly team meeting.


Is that a valid solution?
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wrote:

[...]
All of the knobs are between 11-1 o'clock, except "Aux" - which controls
the internet-fed background music and POP spots heard every 10 minutes,
tailored to each store. Aux is down around 7-8 o'clock, or just above
1 on the knob scale 0-10.


Remove the knob and apply an anti-clockwise torque of about 200 ft/lbs
to the shaft with a Stillson wrench. The customers will be eternally
grateful.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
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www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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1:48 PM Adrian Tuddenham:

LOL you must be from the old school when in-store music was elevator-type!

Our mix is more 'real', a progressive mix( transitions throughout the day) from 1960s-80s to 1990s-Now - original artist recordings.

Think: (9am) Tax Man Shining Star (12pm) You Can Do Magic The Way You Make Me Feel (3pm) All Star Sweet Escape (5pm) Locked Out Of Heaven, Rolling in the Deep. Plus a modern country tune or two thrown in. No rap - this is family retail! lol


Problem is, the store mgr has it down so low you can't even here the store plugs: "This week, save 50 percent on select mark items!!". He says that's how loud it's supposed to be. Plus, the music just pushes me through my day. The assistant takes over, and suddenly you can hear it in the parking lot. lol There's no middle ground!
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wrote:

1:48 PM Adrian Tuddenham:

LOL you must be from the old school when in-store music was elevator-type!


No, I thoroughly dislike unnecessary music of any type and loathe being
distracted by advertisments.

My local supermarket was singled out to be fitted with this abomination
a couple of years ago and I complained to the manager. During a survey
of customers, I expressed my dislike of it and explaind, as forcefully
as I could without being abusive, that it was distracting me, so that
when I got home I realised I hadn't bought half the things I had
intended to. It was so unpleasant that just couldn't wait to get out of
the place.

At first, it was only used during the daytime, so I changed my shopping
time to the evenings. Then they started playing the racket the whole
time the shop was open, so I have stopped shopping there altogether and
transferred my custom to a quieter supermarket a mile away.


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Well, my question is more of a technical one than of a musical one, but thanks for your 'input'.


1980s: "Wool - worth ray - dee - OHHHHHHHH!" lmao... I was a teen working in America's premier five&dime then. A timer-triggered cassette played the jingles then.


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On Monday, June 16, 2014 2:17:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
1:48 PM Adrian Tuddenham:



LOL you must be from the old school when in-store music was elevator-type!



Our mix is more 'real', a progressive mix( transitions throughout the day) from 1960s-80s to 1990s-Now - original artist recordings.



Think: (9am) Tax Man Shining Star (12pm) You Can Do Magic The Way You Make Me Feel (3pm) All Star Sweet Escape (5pm) Locked Out Of Heaven, Rolling in the Deep. Plus a modern country tune or two thrown in. No rap - this is family retail! lol





Problem is, the store mgr has it down so low you can't even here the store plugs: "This week, save 50 percent on select mark items!!". He says that's how loud it's supposed to be. Plus, the music just pushes me through my day. The assistant takes over, and suddenly you can hear it in the parking lot. lol There's no middle ground!


A lot of those multi channel commercial amps have small gain adjustment controls on the back with each imput. For the purposes of equalizing. Check and see. If so you can back off the input there.
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Thanks for the sugg.

Of course the PA amp and whatever is feeding music to it are in a closet under lock & key.

But the biggest impediment is the manager's attitude - not a negative one - just one stemming from lack of knowledge of audio gear & gain staging. He is a retail manager, not an AV techncian.
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Rocks,

It does sound as if something is out of adjustment. Your mission, I'm
afraid, is to convince the manager that he needs to have someone adjust the
unit.
If you can arrange an "after-hours" demo using your equipment to
demonstrate the possible problem then the manager may see that the equipment
may need some adjustment.
You're in retail so sell this adjustment.

Dave M.


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On Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:27:41 PM UTC-4, David Martel wrote:
Rocks,



It does sound as if something is out of adjustment. Your mission, I'm

afraid, is to convince the manager that he needs to have someone adjust the

unit.

If you can arrange an "after-hours" demo using your equipment to

demonstrate the possible problem then the manager may see that the equipment

may need some adjustment.

You're in retail so sell this adjustment.



Dave M.

______________

Thx for the encouragement!

It's stimple gain staging. Whatever is feeding the music(a pc or standalone satellite subscription box) is too hot. It just needs to be turned down so the corresponding level knob on the main amp/mixer(Aux) can be operated in a useful range.

Another problem, as mentioned before, are the spots that break in every 10-15 minutes "Welcome to our store" "look for specially marked tags for half off this week". I don't know if those are fed from a separate source or handled by the same source that pipes in the music.

I visited our stores in neighboring towns and they all have the music at a much more listenable(but not intrusive) level.

If I keep mentioning it I know this otherwise quiet, mild-mannered manager will get hissy, so I've given up.
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On Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:27:41 PM UTC-4, David Martel wrote:
Rocks,



It does sound as if something is out of adjustment. Your mission, I'm

afraid, is to convince the manager that he needs to have someone adjust the

unit.

If you can arrange an "after-hours" demo using your equipment to

demonstrate the possible problem then the manager may see that the equipment

may need some adjustment.

You're in retail so sell this adjustment.



Dave M.

__________________

Thx for the encouragement!

It's simple gain staging. Whatever is feeding the music(a pc or standalone satellite subscription box) is too hot. It just needs to be turned down so the corresponding level knob on the main amp/mixer(Aux) can be operated in a useful range.

Another problem, as mentioned before, are the spots that break in every 10-15 minutes "Welcome to our store" "look for specially marked tags for half off this week". I don't know if those are fed from a separate source or handled by the same source that pipes in the music.

I visited our stores in neighboring towns and they all have the music at a much more listenable(but not intrusive) level.

If I keep mentioning it I know this otherwise quiet, mild-mannered manager will get hissy, so I've given up.


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On Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:27:41 PM UTC-4, David Martel wrote:
Rocks,



It does sound as if something is out of adjustment. Your mission, I'm

afraid, is to convince the manager that he needs to have someone adjust the

unit.

If you can arrange an "after-hours" demo using your equipment to

demonstrate the possible problem then the manager may see that the equipment

may need some adjustment.

You're in retail so sell this adjustment.



Dave M.

________________

Thx for the encouragement!

It's simple gain staging. Whatever is feeding the music(a pc or standalone satellite subscription box) is too hot. It just needs to be turned down so the corresponding level knob on the main amp/mixer(Aux) can be operated in a useful range.

Another problem, as mentioned before, are the spots that break in every 10-15 minutes "Welcome to our store" "look for specially marked tags for half off this week". I don't know if those are fed from a separate source or handled by the same source that pipes in the music.

I visited our stores in neighboring towns and they all have the music at a much more listenable(but not intrusive) level.

If I keep mentioning it I know this otherwise quiet, mild-mannered manager will get hissy, so I've given up.
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On Monday, July 7, 2014 8:58:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, July 6, 2014 6:27:41 PM UTC-4, David Martel wrote:

Rocks,








It does sound as if something is out of adjustment. Your mission, I'm




afraid, is to convince the manager that he needs to have someone adjust the




unit.




If you can arrange an "after-hours" demo using your equipment to




demonstrate the possible problem then the manager may see that the equipment




may need some adjustment.




You're in retail so sell this adjustment.








Dave M.


__________________



Thx for the encouragement!



It's simple gain staging. Whatever is feeding the music(a pc or standalone satellite subscription box) is too hot. It just needs to be turned down so the corresponding level knob on the main amp/mixer(Aux) can be operated in a useful range.



Another problem, as mentioned before, are the spots that break in every 10-15 minutes "Welcome to our store" "look for specially marked tags for half off this week". I don't know if those are fed from a separate source or handled by the same source that pipes in the music.



I visited our stores in neighboring towns and they all have the music at a much more listenable(but not intrusive) level.



If I keep mentioning it I know this otherwise quiet, mild-mannered manager will get hissy, so I've given up.


As I pointed out before there is almost always individual level adjustments on the back of multi-channel commercial amps for the purposes of dealing with the different input levels. Sometimes you need a flat head screw driver. Next time you are working and the "boss" is not, look.
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Rocks,

The issue is psychology not technology. The electronics is not likely to
be the problem. The manager is the problem. Since you can not sell the
manager find another salesman who can.

Dave M.


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james wrote: " Sometimes you need a flat head screw driver. Next time you are working and the "boss" is not, look. "

I know what you mean. I'm sorry, I thought I mentioned earlier in this thread that the PA equipment and main server are behind a locked closet door accessible only to managers/asst. managers.
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On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 5:56:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
james wrote: " Sometimes you need a flat head screw driver. Next time you are working and the "boss" is not, look. "



I know what you mean. I'm sorry, I thought I mentioned earlier in this thread that the PA equipment and main server are behind a locked closet door accessible only to managers/asst. managers.


At this point you're wasting our time. This is a technical forum and you have an organizational issue. If you can't get the manager to see the light then I suggest you just forget about it. Trust me, it's highly unlikely this is the last ignoramus boss you will have. As I get close to retirement I find looking back I mostly worked for idiots with the occasional exception. But then again I'm a federal employee and most managers in the federal sector got their job by having their noise so far up their boss' butt that they could smell their toothpaste flavor. Maybe other's mileage varies :-)


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James:

I could use the soft approach: Mention to him that the music in our other stores(which I visit occasionally on my off time) is a 'bit louder' than ours, and see what he says.

Don't know how I'm wasting your time, but I do get that it's an interpersonal issue rather than technical. I also have the same hard time convincing owners of TVs that calibration will enhance their enjoyment of their displays, so I admit - the problem is really ME.

I have 10 years combined corporate and hotel audio-visual experience, and have laid hands on the best of the best of analog and digital audio & video equipment, something I could mention to him.
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On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:49:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
James:



I could use the soft approach: Mention to him that the music in our other stores(which I visit occasionally on my off time) is a 'bit louder' than ours, and see what he says.



Don't know how I'm wasting your time, but I do get that it's an interpersonal issue rather than technical. I also have the same hard time convincing owners of TVs that calibration will enhance their enjoyment of their displays, so I admit - the problem is really ME.



I have 10 years combined corporate and hotel audio-visual experience, and have laid hands on the best of the best of analog and digital audio & video equipment, something I could mention to him.




I breached the volume subject to my store mgr once more when we were both on break, about two weeks ago. I put it that I had visited half-a-dozen of our sister stores over the past two months and ours is the only one you can't hear the music in.

His response: "Good. I can't stand half what they play anyway and those silly jingles about weekly discounts."

#2 and #3(asst managers) in line set the volume slightly higher than it should be when it's their turn to open in the morning, which might also have something to do with the way #1(General store mgr) sets it.

All I know is, it bridges my work day and I love hearing customers singing along as they absent-mindedly fill up their carts and baskets with merchandise!
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I had to help my asst manager turn back on
the background music in our store today.

I also got a good look at the device that mixes
together the music and POP announcements,
it sits on top of the mixer/amp I mentioned above.
It looks sort of like a fancy cable box, with a
scrolling backlit LCD display, a couple of buttons,
and a round wheel which either scrolls through
menus or controls the device's output/volume.

I tried turning it counterclockwise, hoping it
would lower the devices output level so we could
get the amp "Aux" knob out of 1 into a useful range
(4-5) but it was in a mode other than volume
mode, and did nothing.

I did not pay attn to the make/model of this 'thing',
and could describe it only as a 'music server',
with cat5 connector, power, and audio out
connections on the back. Very Star Trek
looking box! The brains of the music system.
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April 2015:


We had since switched managers with another branch of our store
chain(something my employer does every 6-12 months it turns out).
This manager kept the music at a more normal level.


I came into work and the music sounded somehow *different*. A couple
weeks later, the telecommunications expert and chief trouble-shooter for
the American Telegraph and Telepheeun compagnie came in to do some
rewiring, and the server rrim door was left open while he was going
around the store snaking new wires. I thusly got a look at what was a new
music brain-box on top of the mixer-amp.


This new box was slim, plain black rectangular, with one blue indicator
LED indicating it was alive and functioning ok. But what really caught my
eye was the position the amp's 'CD/AUX' volume knob was set at: 11-12 o'clock,
but the volume in-store was just right! For heaven knows what purpose, the
Treble knob was fully clock-wise(I had set both Bass & Treble set both to
1 o'cock during a previous visit when the door was not fully closed by a
manager one day). I returned Treble to 1 oclock, and the sound was
perfect, if only slightly louder than I would have set it.


My point is, this new music modem was set to feed a proper level to
the store's main mixer-amp, unlike the old one which was so hot the
Aux pot had to be kept below 8 oclock, lest we blast the speakers out
of the ceiling!


Now if we could do something about the MUSIC! Major major decade
creep: Old service played music from 1960s - 2013; the new one,
1980 to present with only one or two 1970s hits per day! And a lot
of stuff I would play in a club at peak crowd, but never in a retail
environment! Bummer..


At least it sounds better.
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June 2015:


The music quality had been starting to sound like a slightly mistuned
slide rule FM radio, with static and some distortion creeping in. Strange,
for an IP based network music player.


Last week, it just cut out altogether, and a day later the network guys
came in to remedy it. My next day of work, music was back on.
Iwas able to access the closet again - a manager did not full shut
it after turning the music on for opening.


Now get this: the volume in the store was decent, but on the amp beneath
the network player, the AUX, BASS, and TREBLE were fully clockwise.
Guess this would prevent playing it too loud(!) But I backed off the tone
controls a bit, and all was normal again.


My question is: HOW could music fed digitally, via internet, sound like a
staticky FM stereo tuner?? Sounds like something at the receiving(dish?)
end - wherever that is.


All of our stores in this district are fed the same music and POS(point of
sale) jingles source.




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On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 4:16:55 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
On 22/06/2015 8:0.com wrote:
June 2015:


The music quality had been starting to sound like a slightly mistuned
slide rule FM radio, with static and some distortion creeping in. Strange,
for an IP based network music player.


Last week, it just cut out altogether, and a day later the network guys
came in to remedy it. My next day of work, music was back on.
Iwas able to access the closet again - a manager did not full shut
it after turning the music on for opening.


Now get this: the volume in the store was decent, but on the amp beneath
the network player, the AUX, BASS, and TREBLE were fully clockwise.
Guess this would prevent playing it too loud(!) But I backed off the tone
controls a bit, and all was normal again.


My question is: HOW could music fed digitally, via internet, sound like a
staticky FM stereo tuner?? Sounds like something at the receiving(dish?)
end - wherever that is.


All of our stores in this district are fed the same music and POS(point of
sale) jingles source.




Not necessarily anything to do with the feed. Probably the device
playing the stream (underpowered or otherwise stuffed-up computer ?),
or and audio problem in the amp itself.

geoff




The device playing the music stream looks like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ic_player..jpg but without dorky antenna on top(!)

It is plugged into similar: http://store.acradiosupplyinc.com/im...ail/PVL15A.jpg which feeds ceiling speakers.

The receiver was installed about two months ago, and has always sounded like a poorly tuned FM station, fading in and out, french fry crackling. They fixed the fading in and out, but there is still some distortion.

And whoever re-configured it last week set it up so that "Aux(music level)", Bass & Treble were cranked all the way up. They must have turned down the output from the streamer to an agreeable store volume, with the amp knobs cranked. Still, it sounds crummy with the bass & treble cranked, even on little speakers.

So I know the amp is not being overloaded in anyway. This sounds like a FM reception issue somewhere in the chain - probably fed from a satellite to a dish at headquarters, then IP'd out to all the stores in the region, static and all.
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On 24/06/2015 5:39 a.m., wrote:
And whoever re-configured it last week set it up so that "Aux



Well, one get what one pays for. And then seemingly stuff it up some more !

geoff
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Sighhhhh.. The very latest in our thrift-store IP-fed music system...


Two weeks ago, the music just got softer and softer, then
just faded away entirely, replaced by a nasty 60Hz hum.

A tech showed up later that week, removed and re-
connected some wires in back of the amp and the music
receiver, and got a faint trickle of music back. The 60Hz
hum remained. He showed me that "CD/Aux" no longer had
any effect on the music volume. Since I was curious, he had
me make a couple "Testing 1 - 2 - 3" pages over the thing -
A-OK. He explained all this to the store manager and me,
indicating that the aux mode was shot and that they needed
a new amp. The manager didn't want to eat into her weekly
budget to buy a replacement, so the tech examined a few
other options in the closet.

He then explained that he was going to reroute the music
receiver feed directly through the telephony box that fed
phone pages into the amp/house system. Ten or twenty
minutes later... "..USED TO CALL ME ON MAH CELL
PHONE, LATE NIGHT WHEN YOU NEED MY LUV. CALL
ME ON my cell pho... ..ate night when you NEED my luv"
He hollered at me, "How's that?" I told him, "Lower it just
a hair and its perfect".

He showed me how the music is adjusted now - it goes
through a small panel on the wall with some pots he needs
a tiny screwdriver to tweak. He rigged it so it still cuts
the music when someone pages over the PA, but now
the music plays constantly through an outdoor horn
mounted by the back loading dock. Music volume is
no longer regulated via "CD/Aux" knob on the amp,
but bass and treble still affect it. The 60hz hum persists
in the background, but the music is actually a bit clearer
and punchier. I adjusted the bass & treble on a return trip
to the closet after he left - the treble was too high again!

As a sidenote, for some time that Aux knob has felt
wobbly and turns loosely, like someone banged it by
accident or over-turned it. Either way it was already
dying or dead by the time this tech was called in.
The only catch is now the music volume can no longer
be adjusted by anyone in the store, so it is playing
constantly, unless a manager switches off the amp,
which the #1 mgr is afraid to even touch that thing,
LOL!
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2017-Dec - Long-term update:


For over one and one half years, with the mods
made as described in my last post, it has largely
been 'steady as goes'. Perhaps it is better that
the music is routed through the wall pots, so
there is no volume war going on between various
store managers. (!)


Still a low-level background hum, from the same
amp with the sledge-hammered Aux. knob, but
at least Bass & Treble are about where I left
them after a glance inside a couple months ago,
when the door was left cracked inadvertently.


I did inquire of an IT specialist who needed the
closet while he was configuring new POS card
swipe terminals if he could examine the actual
music player/receiver for make & model nos.
No dice - all he could discern after gently picking
it up was a sticker on top: "My In-Store Radio".
Per a visit to that providers website, as well as
general web searchds, I was able to glean
ZERO info as to the actual make and model of
that small black box. I was trying to find a manual
for the thing, to read up on it's inner workings and
settings, just in case.


The only other significant, and sad item of note is
the gradual decrease in number of songs played
per cycle, now down to barely a dozen, and much
more recent songs of different genres. As
opposed to 15-20 songs per cycle a few months
ago, and over 30(!) songs per cycle as mentioned
two-three years ago. Guess that's why it's called
'background' music: it's not at all sbout the music
itself.


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thekma wrote in message
...
theckmah's obsessively boring life story snecked


So youre still a retarded dumb****. LFKSN. FCKWAFA!

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For the last month, the music has been all clipped and distorted.

Apparently they upgraded our MIR(My Instore Radio) receiver again,
but this time it's output at such a high level that it's distorting and
clipping the input stage on the P.A. amplifier.

I mentioned it to the store mgr, his boss, etc, and they all said
"it's not your job to fix it. We have to put in an IT ticket request."

The fix is simple: Either turn down the internet MIR receiver volume,
or, adjust the bypass pot on the wall in the store IT closet until the
distortion disappears.

Management's fix? Turn the P.A. amp's tone controls fully counter-
clockwise! So now it's not just clipped and distorted, it's clipped,
distorted, amd sounds like the built-in speaker on an iPod Touch!

They won't listen to me: I told them just a screwdriver and five
minutes, I'll have it sounding brand new again.

They just shook their heads. The store mgr. said "Even I'm not
supppsed to touch the music/PA rig in these stores"!
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Default Store PA Backgd Music Adjustment

Theckmah theckmah @ tardsRus . edu
wrote in message
...
I mentioned it to the store mgr, his boss, etc, and they all said
"it's not your job to fix it. We have to put in an IT ticket request."


With all the time you spend avoiding your duties, to obsess about "turning
the big knob" in the "closet", your employer may end up hiring someone else
to do the job that you're avoiding. If you become so retarded that the
hire-a-retard store has to replace you, where will you turn then?

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