[Michael Black[_2_]]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017, geoff wrote:

On 24/04/2017 7:45 PM, Trevor wrote:


Secondly if we are to take your statement literally then nobody should
wear ANY hearing aid for fear of damaging what is left of their hearing
at any frequency!

I'm surprised people bother to make these comments without knowing
anything about hearing aids.


And despite me making no claim to know anything about audiology , it would
still vastly surprise me that the simple remedy for a loss at a particular
band is solely to boost the **** out of that band. 14k, 8k, 3k, or whatever.

What I remember is that the ear has two or maybe more levels of nerves to
detect sound, because otherwise the ear would be required to handle too
wide a dynamic range. I'm not sure how that translates to loss at higher
frequencies, but from what I was told, one could lose the ability to hear
low level sounds, but still hear loud sounds fine. This was decades ago,
and maybe it was a simplification for "the layman".

I don't think you can boost the high frequencies by too much, and expect
"perfect" hearing. One has to live with something in between "original"
and bad hearing.

Someone mentioned their parents or grandparents getting used to hearing
aids, and giving up. Apparently that's common, one adjusts to what there
is, so hearing aids can take time to adjust to. So I assume people adjust
to the level of improvement that a hearing aid can offer.

The electronics don't or didn't provide the same level of dynamic range as
regular ears, so AGC, automatic gain control, kicks in somewhere in
hearing aids, so that's another thing one has to adjust to.

Michael

[Trevor]

On 24/04/2017 10:08 PM, geoff wrote:
On 24/04/2017 7:45 PM, Trevor wrote:
Secondly if we are to take your statement literally then nobody should
wear ANY hearing aid for fear of damaging what is left of their hearing
at any frequency!

I'm surprised people bother to make these comments without knowing
anything about hearing aids.


And despite me making no claim to know anything about audiology , it
would still vastly surprise me that the simple remedy for a loss at a
particular band is solely to boost the **** out of that band. 14k, 8k,
3k, or whatever.

Be surprised then, hearing aids are available with over 80dB gain for
the profoundly deaf! Nobody claimed you would make that much adjustment
of ONLY one band besides you though. And apparently you still have no
idea that 14k is NOT a band covered by any hearing aid.

[Trevor]

On 25/04/2017 12:33 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:58:03 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 24/04/2017 4:16 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:

Yet the commebt was about their software phoning home.
Something that Billyware does. Something that does nothing to
improve the the working of the product, but is part of the
bull**** marketing and hype.

Fortunately many of those who actually use Windows know you can easily
stop this. Apple does far more objectionable things IMO, but neither is
in the same league as Google and Facebook, or our own governments for
that matter. :-(

Apple have much to answer for. A Windows adminisrator
recently told me that the latest version of Microsoft's OS can
not be prevented from phoning home if it has a net connection. I
assume that it could with an agressively programmed router.

Or simple settings in Windows itself. Whilst MS don't make it too easy,
and your admin friend is obviously not that clued in, it is not really
that hard. Much harder to stop many smart TV's etc!


As for Google and Facebook, their behaviour is an
excellent reason to avoid them - Even if you do think you have
nothing to hide. Governments have never been restrained by the
privacy laws they want other citizens and governments to follow.

And sadly people happily give away all privacy as soon as someone
mentions terrorism. Amazing that they do not give up their gun rights
though when thousands of times more people are killed by US citizens
with guns than any terrorist in the USA. That's politics for you.

[Trevor]

On 25/04/2017 5:29 AM, Michael Black wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017, geoff wrote:
On 24/04/2017 7:45 PM, Trevor wrote:
Secondly if we are to take your statement literally then nobody
should wear ANY hearing aid for fear of damaging what is left of
their hearing at any frequency!

I'm surprised people bother to make these comments without
knowing anything about hearing aids.

And despite me making no claim to know anything about audiology ,
it would still vastly surprise me that the simple remedy for a loss
at a particular band is solely to boost the **** out of that band.
14k, 8k, 3k, or whatever.

What I remember is that the ear has two or maybe more levels of
nerves to detect sound, because otherwise the ear would be required
to handle too wide a dynamic range. I'm not sure how that translates
to loss at higher frequencies, but from what I was told, one could
lose the ability to hear low level sounds, but still hear loud sounds
fine. This was decades ago, and maybe it was a simplification for
"the layman".

I don't think you can boost the high frequencies by too much, and
expect "perfect" hearing. One has to live with something in between
"original" and bad hearing.

For many people the ability to hear above a certain frequency is lost
completely, or close to it, and no amount of gain would help. But
hearing aids are designed to cover the voice frequency range, and rarely
go past 8kHz anyway. Fairly high boost in the 2-8kHz range is not that
uncommon for those with simple high frequency loss. But *NO* hearing aid
will give a user "perfect hearing", only something more useful perhaps.



Someone mentioned their parents or grandparents getting used to
hearing aids, and giving up. Apparently that's common, one adjusts to
what there is, so hearing aids can take time to adjust to. So I
assume people adjust to the level of improvement that a hearing aid
can offer.

The electronics don't or didn't provide the same level of dynamic
range as regular ears, so AGC, automatic gain control, kicks in
somewhere in hearing aids, so that's another thing one has to adjust
to.


Actually the aids themselves can easily cover the ears dynamic range at
very low gain, however if you have say 60db loss, maintaining 100dB
dynamic range would require a peak SPL of over 160dB! Not something
anybody could tolerate even IF the aids could manage something remotely
close to that. Fact is very loud sounds still sound loud to most hearing
aid users so the dynamic range provided must be restricted if they are
to hear quieter sounds at all.

[geoff]

On 25/04/2017 2:33 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:


Apple have much to answer for. A Windows adminisrator
recently told me that the latest version of Microsoft's OS can
not be prevented from phoning home if it has a net connection. I
assume that it could with an agressively programmed router.

As for Google and Facebook, their behaviour is an
excellent reason to avoid them - Even if you do think you have
nothing to hide. Governments have never been restrained by the
privacy laws they want other citizens and governments to follow.
`


Best avoid, um, everything.

geoff

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:29:20 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 25/04/2017 12:33 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:58:03 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 24/04/2017 4:16 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
not be prevented from phoning home if it has a net connection. I
assume that it could with an agressively programmed router.

Or simple settings in Windows itself. Whilst MS don't make it too easy,
and your admin friend is obviously not that clued in, it is not really
that hard. Much harder to stop many smart TV's etc!

So, what are these settings that you seem to be clued
into. Obviously if you can stop Windows 10 from phoning home, we
should all know how to do this.


As for Google and Facebook, their behaviour is an
excellent reason to avoid them - Even if you do think you have
nothing to hide. Governments have never been restrained by the
privacy laws they want other citizens and governments to follow.

And sadly people happily give away all privacy as soon as someone
mentions terrorism. Amazing that they do not give up their gun rights
though when thousands of times more people are killed by US citizens
with guns than any terrorist in the USA. That's politics for you.

The only Amendment left of the Bill of Rights is the
second amendment. Now that we don't live in fear of Communism, we
have to live in fear of terrorism.



--
"That's not the way the world really works anymore, We're an empire now,
and when we act, we create our own reality." Karl Rove to Ron Suskind

[Trevor]

On 25/04/2017 9:57 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:29:20 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 25/04/2017 12:33 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:58:03 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 24/04/2017 4:16 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
not be prevented from phoning home if it has a net connection. I
assume that it could with an agressively programmed router.

Or simple settings in Windows itself. Whilst MS don't make it too easy,
and your admin friend is obviously not that clued in, it is not really
that hard. Much harder to stop many smart TV's etc!

So, what are these settings that you seem to be clued
into. Obviously if you can stop Windows 10 from phoning home, we
should all know how to do this.


Most people already know how to use the internet to find this sort of
thing. The rest probably aren't worried.

[Bob Eager]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:57:41 +0000, Julian Macassey wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:29:20 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 25/04/2017 12:33 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:58:03 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 24/04/2017 4:16 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
not be prevented from phoning home if it has a net connection. I
assume that it could with an agressively programmed router.

Or simple settings in Windows itself. Whilst MS don't make it too easy,
and your admin friend is obviously not that clued in, it is not really
that hard. Much harder to stop many smart TV's etc!

So, what are these settings that you seem to be clued
into. Obviously if you can stop Windows 10 from phoning home, we should
all know how to do this.

http://bfy.tw/BPzc

The only Amendment left of the Bill of Rights is the
second amendment. Now that we don't live in fear of Communism, we have
to live in fear of terrorism.

I live more in fear of Trump.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:04:55 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 25/04/2017 9:57 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:29:20 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 25/04/2017 12:33 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:58:03 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 24/04/2017 4:16 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
not be prevented from phoning home if it has a net connection. I
assume that it could with an agressively programmed router.

Or simple settings in Windows itself. Whilst MS don't make it too easy,
and your admin friend is obviously not that clued in, it is not really
that hard. Much harder to stop many smart TV's etc!

So, what are these settings that you seem to be clued
into. Obviously if you can stop Windows 10 from phoning home, we
should all know how to do this.


Most people already know how to use the internet to find this sort of
thing. The rest probably aren't worried.

How helpful of you.

Could it be that you yourself don't actually know how to
stop Windows 10 from phoning home? Yes, I know you can select
some things. I'm talking about no phoning home.



--
"We see businesses that don't produce anything and run at an astonishing
loss valued in the billions of dollars." - Maciej Cegłowski 9 Sept 2014

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 25/04/17 15:33, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:04:55 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 25/04/2017 9:57 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:29:20 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 25/04/2017 12:33 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:58:03 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 24/04/2017 4:16 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
not be prevented from phoning home if it has a net connection. I
assume that it could with an agressively programmed router.

Or simple settings in Windows itself. Whilst MS don't make it too easy,
and your admin friend is obviously not that clued in, it is not really
that hard. Much harder to stop many smart TV's etc!

So, what are these settings that you seem to be clued
into. Obviously if you can stop Windows 10 from phoning home, we
should all know how to do this.


Most people already know how to use the internet to find this sort of
thing. The rest probably aren't worried.

How helpful of you.

Could it be that you yourself don't actually know how to
stop Windows 10 from phoning home? Yes, I know you can select
some things. I'm talking about no phoning home.


OK, even more off topic than my segue ...

Put a block to these in a firewall device.
Pretty easy for most Windows 10 users :-p

a-msedge.net
a.ads2.msads.net
adnexus.net
aidps.atdmt.com
az361816.vo.msecnd.net
az512334.vo.msecnd.net
b.ads1.msn.com
b.ads2.msads.net
c.atdmt.com
c.msn.com
cdn.atdmt.com
cds26.ams9.msecn.net
db3aqu.atdmt.com
ec.atdmt.com
feedback.microsoft-hohm.com
flex.msn.com
g.msn.com
h1.msn.com
lb1.www.ms.akadns.net
live.rads.msn.com
m.adnxs.com
msedge.net
msnbot-65-55-108-23.search.msn.com
msntest.serving-sys.com
preview.msn.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
sO.2mdn.net
schemas.microsoft.akadns.net
secure.flashtalking.com
settings-win.data.microsoft.com
statsfe2.ws.microsoft.com
telemetry.appex.bing.net:443
wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com

from http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/

--
Adrian C

[Walter Banks]

On 2017-04-21 11:12 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
Trevor writes:


Anyone with hearing loss would do well to continue with annual
hearing evaluations.

My audiologist uses some Windows based software to access the
hearing aids, I'd like a copy, and I don't buy any safety arguments.
But I don't know how to analyze the results of a hearing test and
convert that into hearing aid settings. I'm not upset that I don't
have the software. It's probably just as well.


I got copies of the profiles that my audiologist created for my hearing
aids. I programmed them into the audio system that my laptop uses. It
meant that when I used Skype for telephone calls with minimal adjustment
I got very good audio compensation for my hearing loss. With headphones
to cut out outside noise this worked well.

One thing I was convinced of was my audiologist knew a lot more about
hearing compensation than I ever would. The hearing aids I have can deal
with frequency shifting as well as frequency gain profiles. In a real
world environment it is all about many levels of compromise.

My hearing aids have a half dozen environment profiles so that I can
select application code in them to cover the situation. Ears can be
handled separately or the hearing aids can auto correlate the sound from
the direction I am looking. Telephone app in the hearing aids will
create audio in both ears from sound picked up from the receiver against
one ear and profile gains to deal with the audio profile of the
telephone. There is wireless communication between the ears (that can
also have a third source)

w..

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:56:52 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 25/04/17 15:33, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:04:55 +1000, Trevor wrote:

So, what are these settings that you seem to be clued
into. Obviously if you can stop Windows 10 from phoning home, we
should all know how to do this.


Most people already know how to use the internet to find this sort of
thing. The rest probably aren't worried.

How helpful of you.

Could it be that you yourself don't actually know how to
stop Windows 10 from phoning home? Yes, I know you can select
some things. I'm talking about no phoning home.


OK, even more off topic than my segue ...

Put a block to these in a firewall device.
Pretty easy for most Windows 10 users :-p

Many thanks. All I have to say is Jesus, that's a ton of
addresses. I'm sure it's all to improve the customer experience.
You paid these people money, but they still feel you owe them.



a-msedge.net
a.ads2.msads.net
adnexus.net
aidps.atdmt.com
az361816.vo.msecnd.net
az512334.vo.msecnd.net
b.ads1.msn.com
b.ads2.msads.net
c.atdmt.com
c.msn.com
cdn.atdmt.com
cds26.ams9.msecn.net
db3aqu.atdmt.com
ec.atdmt.com
feedback.microsoft-hohm.com
flex.msn.com
g.msn.com
h1.msn.com
lb1.www.ms.akadns.net
live.rads.msn.com
m.adnxs.com
msedge.net
msnbot-65-55-108-23.search.msn.com
msntest.serving-sys.com
preview.msn.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
sO.2mdn.net
schemas.microsoft.akadns.net
secure.flashtalking.com
settings-win.data.microsoft.com
statsfe2.ws.microsoft.com
telemetry.appex.bing.net:443
wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com

from http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/



--
"If something is free, you're not the customer, you're the product." Bruce
Schneier, Data and Goliath, 2015

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:56:52 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

OK, even more off topic than my segue ...

Put a block to these in a firewall device.
Pretty easy for most Windows 10 users :-p

Yup, looks like needs more than a hosts file.

a-msedge.net
a.ads2.msads.net
adnexus.net
aidps.atdmt.com
az361816.vo.msecnd.net
az512334.vo.msecnd.net
b.ads1.msn.com
b.ads2.msads.net
c.atdmt.com
c.msn.com
cdn.atdmt.com
cds26.ams9.msecn.net
db3aqu.atdmt.com
ec.atdmt.com
feedback.microsoft-hohm.com
flex.msn.com
g.msn.com
h1.msn.com
lb1.www.ms.akadns.net
live.rads.msn.com
m.adnxs.com
msedge.net
msnbot-65-55-108-23.search.msn.com
msntest.serving-sys.com
preview.msn.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
sO.2mdn.net
schemas.microsoft.akadns.net
secure.flashtalking.com
settings-win.data.microsoft.com
statsfe2.ws.microsoft.com
telemetry.appex.bing.net:443
wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com

from http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/

My buddy adds:

I have to add something here; Windows 10 does not honor a
hosts.txt entry for these, so simply adding them to the internal
hosts file will serve no purpose.

A fellow by the handle of Barnacules Nerdgasm on Youtube
discovered that "Edge", the Internet Explorer replacement,
bridges right past the host file. He tried to block Bing.com in
the hosts and Edge brought it up without pause. These entries
will have to go into a router, or some external firewall.



--
€œAdvice is a cheap commodity some seek it from me about crime €” I know only one
thing for sure €” If you want to make crime pay €” €˜Go to Law School.€‚€�
- Whitey Bulger, Boston Gangster

[Trevor]

On 26/04/2017 12:33 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:04:55 +1000, Trevor wrote:
not be prevented from phoning home if it has a net connection. I
assume that it could with an agressively programmed router.

Or simple settings in Windows itself. Whilst MS don't make it too easy,
and your admin friend is obviously not that clued in, it is not really
that hard. Much harder to stop many smart TV's etc!

So, what are these settings that you seem to be clued
into. Obviously if you can stop Windows 10 from phoning home, we
should all know how to do this.


Most people already know how to use the internet to find this sort of
thing. The rest probably aren't worried.

How helpful of you.

Could it be that you yourself don't actually know how to
stop Windows 10 from phoning home? Yes, I know you can select
some things. I'm talking about no phoning home.


Or could it be that you don't know how to use Google and need someone to
hold your hand for you? I have better things to do. If you think it
can't be done, fine by me.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 26/04/2017 2:58 AM, Walter Banks wrote:
On 2017-04-21 11:12 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
Trevor writes:


Anyone with hearing loss would do well to continue with annual
hearing evaluations.

My audiologist uses some Windows based software to access the
hearing aids, I'd like a copy, and I don't buy any safety arguments.
But I don't know how to analyze the results of a hearing test and
convert that into hearing aid settings. I'm not upset that I don't
have the software. It's probably just as well.


I got copies of the profiles that my audiologist created for my hearing
aids. I programmed them into the audio system that my laptop uses. It
meant that when I used Skype for telephone calls with minimal adjustment
I got very good audio compensation for my hearing loss. With headphones
to cut out outside noise this worked well.

One thing I was convinced of was my audiologist knew a lot more about
hearing compensation than I ever would. The hearing aids I have can deal
with frequency shifting as well as frequency gain profiles. In a real
world environment it is all about many levels of compromise.

My hearing aids have a half dozen environment profiles so that I can
select application code in them to cover the situation. Ears can be
handled separately or the hearing aids can auto correlate the sound from
the direction I am looking. Telephone app in the hearing aids will
create audio in both ears from sound picked up from the receiver against
one ear and profile gains to deal with the audio profile of the
telephone. There is wireless communication between the ears (that can
also have a third source)



This is true, and why fine tuning BY the person with the hearing loss is
so critical. (The initial "first fit" is ALL taken care of by the
software anyway from your audiogram) The audiologist can't hear what you
are hearing though so it can take MUCH trial and error to get something
you are happy with if you can't do it yourself. Suits the Audiologists
of course. :-(

Trevor.

[Julian Macassey]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 16:48:37 +1000, Trevor wrote:

Or could it be that you don't know how to use Google and need someone to
hold your hand for you? I have better things to do. If you think it
can't be done, fine by me.

Is this your way of saying "I know the answer but would
rather tell you I'm not going to tell you than spend the same
time telling you".

Or maybe, you in fact don't know how to do it, but would
rather not admit it.


--
"Sir Robert Walpole said, he always talked bawdy at his table,
because in that all could join." - Samuel Johnson

[Trevor]

On 27/04/2017 11:38 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 16:48:37 +1000, Trevor wrote:
Or could it be that you don't know how to use Google and need someone to
hold your hand for you? I have better things to do. If you think it
can't be done, fine by me.

Is this your way of saying "I know the answer but would
rather tell you I'm not going to tell you than spend the same
time telling you".


Is this your way of saying you still don't know how to use Google, or
your way of saying I'd rather spend time complaining than do it?

Trevor.