[Bret L]

The best preamp is no preamp. In the case of CD players, DACs, and
tuners there is no reason to have a preamp but for the intransigence
of the makers who refuse to put convenient volume controls on them.
However, to provide for volume control, tone controls, switching of
units without moving cables and for phono sections (you could put it
in the turntable, but nooo) you need a preamp.


An ideal preamp should provide for:

1. A stepped precision attenuator so precise and repeatable level
settings may be made.

2. Internal provisions for balanced and unbalanced output with a
replaceable connector field panel. If transformers are to be used for
balanced output they should be plug-in style so they can be purchased
later and easily fitted.

3. Provision should be made for internal mounting of phono input
transformers for users of low output MC carts.

4. Low or high output, a balanced input should be provided for with
either a transformer or active internal electronics. This should have
a rational kind of four conductor connector. No attempt to utilize RCA
connectors for balanced connections should ever be made.

[Boon[_2_]]

On Jul 30, 10:22*am, Bret L wrote:
*The best preamp is no preamp. In the case of CD players, DACs, and
tuners there is no reason to have a preamp but for the intransigence
of the makers who refuse to put convenient volume controls on them.
However, to provide for volume control, tone controls, switching of
units without moving cables and for phono sections (you could put it
in the turntable, but nooo) you need a preamp.

*An ideal preamp should provide for:

*1. A stepped precision attenuator so precise and repeatable level
settings may be made.

*2. Internal provisions for balanced and unbalanced output with a
replaceable connector field panel. If transformers are to be used for
balanced output they should be plug-in style so they can be purchased
later and easily fitted.

*3. Provision should be made for internal mounting of phono input
transformers for users of low output MC carts.

*4. Low or high output, a balanced input should be provided for with
either a transformer or active internal electronics. This should have
a rational kind of four conductor connector. No attempt to utilize RCA
connectors for balanced connections should ever be made.

From what book did you copy this?

[John Stone]

On 7/30/10 2:22 PM, in article
, "Boon"
wrote:

On Jul 30, 10:22*am, Bret L wrote:
*The best preamp is no preamp. In the case of CD players, DACs, and
tuners there is no reason to have a preamp but for the intransigence
of the makers who refuse to put convenient volume controls on them.
However, to provide for volume control, tone controls, switching of
units without moving cables and for phono sections (you could put it
in the turntable, but nooo) you need a preamp.


From what book did you copy this?

And what happened to his love affair with the Marantz 7?

[Trevor Wilson[_3_]]

"Bret L" wrote in message
...
The best preamp is no preamp. In the case of CD players, DACs, and
tuners there is no reason to have a preamp but for the intransigence
of the makers who refuse to put convenient volume controls on them.

**There's more. Very few source manufacturers build products with suitably
low output impedance figures, such that long interconnects may be used.

However, to provide for volume control, tone controls, switching of
units without moving cables and for phono sections (you could put it
in the turntable, but nooo) you need a preamp.


An ideal preamp should provide for:

1. A stepped precision attenuator so precise and repeatable level
settings may be made.

**Provided there are AT LEAST 100+ steps, Anything less results in poor
resolution of absolute volume levels.


2. Internal provisions for balanced and unbalanced output with a
replaceable connector field panel. If transformers are to be used for
balanced output they should be plug-in style so they can be purchased
later and easily fitted.

**Why? The need for balanced outputs is so incredibly rare, that it barely
rates a mention. For extremely electrically noisy environments, it is
helpful. Those situations normally involve long audio cables (20 Metres)
mounted close to power cables, typically carrying energy from TRIAC
controlled lighting systems. Under these cicumstances, balanced lines can be
helpful. Such conditions are rare or non-existent in domestic situations.


3. Provision should be made for internal mounting of phono input
transformers for users of low output MC carts.

**Agreed.


4. Low or high output, a balanced input should be provided for with
either a transformer or active internal electronics. This should have
a rational kind of four conductor connector. No attempt to utilize RCA
connectors for balanced connections should ever be made.

**Of course, but balanced systems are unnecessary.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Shhhh!!!! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Jul 30, 4:40*pm, "Trevor Wilson" wrote:
"Bret L" wrote in message

...

The best preamp is no preamp. In the case of CD players, DACs, and
tuners there is no reason to have a preamp but for the intransigence
of the makers who refuse to put convenient volume controls on them.

**There's more. Very few source manufacturers build products with suitably
low output impedance figures, such that long interconnects may be used.

However, to provide for volume control, tone controls, switching of
units without moving cables and for phono sections (you could put it
in the turntable, but nooo) you need a preamp.

An ideal preamp should provide for:

1. A stepped precision attenuator so precise and repeatable level
settings may be made.

**Provided there are AT LEAST 100+ steps, Anything less results in poor
resolution of absolute volume levels.



2. Internal provisions for balanced and unbalanced output with a
replaceable connector field panel. If transformers are to be used for
balanced output they should be plug-in style so they can be purchased
later and easily fitted.

**Why? The need for balanced outputs is so incredibly rare, that it barely
rates a mention. For extremely electrically noisy environments, it is
helpful. Those situations normally involve long audio cables (20 Metres)
mounted close to power cables, typically carrying energy from TRIAC
controlled lighting systems. Under these cicumstances, balanced lines can be
helpful. Such conditions are rare or non-existent in domestic situations.



3. Provision should be made for internal mounting of phono input
transformers for users of low output MC carts.

**Agreed.



4. Low or high output, a balanced input should be provided for with
either a transformer or active internal electronics. This should have
a rational kind of four conductor connector. No attempt to utilize RCA
connectors for balanced connections should ever be made.

**Of course, but balanced systems are unnecessary.

Bratzi posts stuff like this every so often so that he can claim he
posts on topic.

Bratzi is a moron.

[Bret L]

On Jul 30, 2:42*pm, John Stone wrote:
On 7/30/10 2:22 PM, in article
, "Boon"

wrote:
On Jul 30, 10:22*am, Bret L wrote:
*The best preamp is no preamp. In the case of CD players, DACs, and
tuners there is no reason to have a preamp but for the intransigence
of the makers who refuse to put convenient volume controls on them.
However, to provide for volume control, tone controls, switching of
units without moving cables and for phono sections (you could put it
in the turntable, but nooo) you need a preamp.

From what book did you copy this?

Although others have pointed me in that direction the emphasis is
mine. The words are mine. Otherwise you'd see quotation marks and a
link or other citation.

And what happened to his love affair with the Marantz 7?

Oh, I still think the Marantz 7 is the thing to copy, in many ways,
but with a different power supply to be certain.

It needs a fine stepped attenuator and there is no reason to have
left and right channel tone controls on separate knobs I know of.

If you need a pre that's the pre to beat. But if you don't, avoid
them altogether.

[Bret L]

On Jul 30, 4:40*pm, "Trevor Wilson" wrote:
"Bret L" wrote in message

...

The best preamp is no preamp. In the case of CD players, DACs, and
tuners there is no reason to have a preamp but for the intransigence
of the makers who refuse to put convenient volume controls on them.

**There's more. Very few source manufacturers build products with suitably
low output impedance figures, such that long interconnects may be used.


They don't build the preamps any different than the CD players in
many instances. Same chips. Same topology.
Are both inadequate? Yes, but that's another story.

However, to provide for volume control, tone controls, switching of
units without moving cables and for phono sections (you could put it
in the turntable, but nooo) you need a preamp.

An ideal preamp should provide for:

1. A stepped precision attenuator so precise and repeatable level
settings may be made.

**Provided there are AT LEAST 100+ steps, Anything less results in poor
resolution of absolute volume levels.



2. Internal provisions for balanced and unbalanced output with a
replaceable connector field panel. If transformers are to be used for
balanced output they should be plug-in style so they can be purchased
later and easily fitted.

**Why? The need for balanced outputs is so incredibly rare, that it barely
rates a mention. For extremely electrically noisy environments, it is
helpful. Those situations normally involve long audio cables (20 Metres)
mounted close to power cables, typically carrying energy from TRIAC
controlled lighting systems. Under these cicumstances, balanced lines can be
helpful. Such conditions are rare or non-existent in domestic situations.



3. Provision should be made for internal mounting of phono input
transformers for users of low output MC carts.

**Agreed.



4. Low or high output, a balanced input should be provided for with
either a transformer or active internal electronics. This should have
a rational kind of four conductor connector. No attempt to utilize RCA
connectors for balanced connections should ever be made.

**Of course, but balanced systems are unnecessary.

If you want to interface to the pro recording and sound reinforcement
world they are. That is necessary more than you would think.