[[email protected]]

I've been using Mac Pro desktops with PCI slots for many years. It's a great machine, very well built and quiet. But this new model seems so over the top in terms of base price and expensive add-ons it seems Apple has truly reached the highest level of greed.

https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

With only SSD storage options adding immensely to the cost I wonder who this is geared towards. It's out of my price range these days but I do like internal PCI slots since I favor AES audio via the Lynx AES PCI card coupled with Lavry Blue converters.

Gary V

[geoff]

On 22/12/2019 10:41 am, wrote:
I've been using Mac Pro desktops with PCI slots for many years. It's a great machine, very well built and quiet. But this new model seems so over the top in terms of base price and expensive add-ons it seems Apple has truly reached the highest level of greed.

https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

With only SSD storage options adding immensely to the cost I wonder who this is geared towards. It's out of my price range these days but I do like internal PCI slots since I favor AES audio via the Lynx AES PCI card coupled with Lavry Blue converters.

Gary V


If you weren't locked into Mac-based software you could pick up a very
high-spec generic PC where pretty much all expansion options are
plentiful and inexpensive.

geoff

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 3:28:31 PM UTC-8, geoff wrote:
On 22/12/2019 10:41 am, wrote:
I've been using Mac Pro desktops with PCI slots for many years. It's a great machine, very well built and quiet. But this new model seems so over the top in terms of base price and expensive add-ons it seems Apple has truly reached the highest level of greed.

https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

With only SSD storage options adding immensely to the cost I wonder who this is geared towards. It's out of my price range these days but I do like internal PCI slots since I favor AES audio via the Lynx AES PCI card coupled with Lavry Blue converters.

Gary V


If you weren't locked into Mac-based software you could pick up a very
high-spec generic PC where pretty much all expansion options are
plentiful and inexpensive.

geoff

I use Cubase so I could get a Windows PC. I don't need a new computer right now but I will one day, so indeed I have been looking at Windows based PC's.

I confess though, I like that under the hood the Mac has a Unix operating system with a bash shell where I can write scripts and do other chores. I'm just ranting because Apple has made a marketing decision to charge a very premium price for this new Mac Pro - because they can. I know it's assembled in the U.S.A. but mostly from overseas parts I would guess.

Gary V

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
I've been using Mac Pro desktops with PCI slots for many years. It's a grea=
t machine, very well built and quiet. But this new model seems so over the =
top in terms of base price and expensive add-ons it seems Apple has truly r=
eached the highest level of greed.

https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

With only SSD storage options adding immensely to the cost I wonder who thi=
s is geared towards. It's out of my price range these days but I do like in=
ternal PCI slots since I favor AES audio via the Lynx AES PCI card coupled =
with Lavry Blue converters.

We're at the point where SSDs are so much faster than rotating disk and yet
not that much more expensive than rotating disk. You can now buy a 500T
SSD from a major manufacturer (not server grade but entirely acceptable for
routine use) for $100.

There is no longer any reason not to have your boot disk and work disk be
an SSD. Now, the truth is that it's not as big a deal at boot time with OSX
than it is with Windows; the SSD will vastly speed up windows start time
and the amount of time you sit around waiting for updates to get applied.
With OSX the boot is relatively fast and efficient already so it's not as
big a win. But it's still certainly a huge win in terms of starting up
Pro Tools and loading a file in for a rapid change.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
I use Cubase so I could get a Windows PC. I don't need a new computer right=
now but I will one day, so indeed I have been looking at Windows based PC'=
s.=20

I confess though, I like that under the hood the Mac has a Unix operating s=
ystem with a bash shell where I can write scripts and do other chores. I'm =
just ranting because Apple has made a marketing decision to charge a very p=
remium price for this new Mac Pro - because they can. I know it's assembled=
in the U.S.A. but mostly from overseas parts I would guess.

You might look into Windows Subsystem for Linux. It gives you a Software
Tools environment under Windows, and it's not as crufty as Cygwin is. It's
still got some bugs but changes made between XP and Win7 to make for faster
fork() makes a big difference. You still have you twist your head around
because paths have \ in them in one context and / in them in another. But
it's not horrible.

I still would recommend the Mac because it's a more closed environment, but
it's true that you pay for that. And the newer Mac machines are becoming
very difficult to repair.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Phil W]

Scott Dorsey:
wrote:
I've been using Mac Pro desktops with PCI slots for many years. It's a
grea=
t machine, very well built and quiet. But this new model seems so over the
=
top in terms of base price and expensive add-ons it seems Apple has truly
r=
eached the highest level of greed.

https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

With only SSD storage options adding immensely to the cost I wonder who
thi=
s is geared towards. It's out of my price range these days but I do like
in=
ternal PCI slots since I favor AES audio via the Lynx AES PCI card coupled
=
with Lavry Blue converters.

We're at the point where SSDs are so much faster than rotating disk and
yet
not that much more expensive than rotating disk. You can now buy a 500T
SSD from a major manufacturer (not server grade but entirely acceptable
for
routine use) for $100.

There is no longer any reason not to have your boot disk and work disk be
an SSD.

The "problem" is, that Apple wants to apply crazy high prices for an SSD
(just like all other upgradable hardware parts) compared to other
manufacturers. If Apple could just get off their arrogant path of "our stuff
ist bettererererer, because it´s so much more expensive!111111" and make
more reasonable prices for hardware, it could be a little more fair for
everyone involved.

Phil

[Scott Dorsey]

Phil W wrote:
The "problem" is, that Apple wants to apply crazy high prices for an SSD
(just like all other upgradable hardware parts) compared to other
manufacturers. If Apple could just get off their arrogant path of "our stuff
ist bettererererer, because it´s so much more expensive!111111" and make
more reasonable prices for hardware, it could be a little more fair for
everyone involved.

Apple charges it because people pay it.

And on the PC desktop end of things, you have expensive hardware and junk
hardware and there is no middle ground there either.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Stevens]

On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 3:41:50 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I've been using Mac Pro desktops with PCI slots for many years. It's a great machine, very well built and quiet. But this new model seems so over the top in terms of base price and expensive add-ons it seems Apple has truly reached the highest level of greed.

https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

With only SSD storage options adding immensely to the cost I wonder who this is geared towards. It's out of my price range these days but I do like internal PCI slots since I favor AES audio via the Lynx AES PCI card coupled with Lavry Blue converters.

Gary V

An option I chose: The iMac Pro. ~$5Gs for 32 gig of RAM, super-fast processor, large SSD, good graphics card and great screen. I can run very large sessions with tons of plug-ins, VIs, my UAD system running more plugs and the Cue Mix with no sluggishness or hesitation. I sometimes have a vocalist or acoustic bass player in the booth with me . . . no issue of fan noise. Love it!

[Trevor]

On 24/12/2019 6:18 am, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Phil W wrote:
The "problem" is, that Apple wants to apply crazy high prices for an SSD
(just like all other upgradable hardware parts) compared to other
manufacturers. If Apple could just get off their arrogant path of "our stuff
ist bettererererer, because it´s so much more expensive!111111" and make
more reasonable prices for hardware, it could be a little more fair for
everyone involved.

Apple charges it because people pay it.

Yep, they have always charged what they can get away with, and it seems
Apple tragic's will happily pay whatever they ask.



And on the PC desktop end of things, you have expensive hardware
and junk hardware and there is no middle ground there either.


Now that is just plain wrong. It's easy to buy a new generic PC from
about $500 to over $8k with every conceivable price point in between
well covered. Perhaps not from every single manufacturer, but you have
SO many to choose from, unlike Apple.

[geoff]

On 24/12/2019 4:00 pm, Trevor wrote:
On 24/12/2019 6:18 am, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Phil W wrote:
The "problem" is, that Apple wants to apply crazy high prices for an SSD
(just like all other upgradable hardware parts) compared to other
manufacturers. If Apple could just get off their arrogant path of
"our stuff
ist bettererererer, because it´s so much more expensive!111111" and make
more reasonable prices for hardware, it could be a little more fair for
everyone involved.

Apple charges it because people pay it.

Yep, they have always charged what they can get away with, and it seems
Apple tragic's will happily pay whatever they ask.



Once hooked into the religion by the deliberate tactics.

geoff

[Ty Ford[_2_]]

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 9:14:58 AM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
We're at the point where SSDs are so much faster than rotating disk and yet
not that much more expensive than rotating disk. You can now buy a 500T
SSD from a major manufacturer (not server grade but entirely acceptable for
routine use) for $100.

There is no longer any reason not to have your boot disk and work disk be
an SSD. Now, the truth is that it's not as big a deal at boot time with OSX
than it is with Windows; the SSD will vastly speed up windows start time
and the amount of time you sit around waiting for updates to get applied.
With OSX the boot is relatively fast and efficient already so it's not as
big a win. But it's still certainly a huge win in terms of starting up
Pro Tools and loading a file in for a rapid change.
--scott


I'm using SSD drives on two macs that I installed myself and have a third in a 2017 iMac Pro. On the iMac Pro. It's the only functional drive and I run Logic pro and Final Cut Pro from it. So far no worries except finding a way to secure the smaller drives into the older machine bays. Not really a problem, just a thing to deal with.

Regards,

Ty Ford
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Nil[_2_]]

On 23 Dec 2019, (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

We're at the point where SSDs are so much faster than rotating
disk and yet not that much more expensive than rotating disk. You
can now buy a 500T SSD from a major manufacturer (not server grade
but entirely acceptable for routine use) for $100.

Surely you must mean 500 GB, not T(erabyte)?!

I'll stick to conventional hard disks for now. They're much cheaper
than SS disks, and reasonably reliable, and I'm comfortable dealing
with them. They're slower, of course, not that has not ever been a
problem for me. I've been led to believe that SSDs are liable to fail
prematurely without warning. That's enough to put me off them. HDD is a
mature and proven technology.

You can get 4 terabyte hard disks for well under $100 any day of the
week. That's a lot of bang for the buck.

[Scott Dorsey]

Nil wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019, (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

We're at the point where SSDs are so much faster than rotating
disk and yet not that much more expensive than rotating disk. You
can now buy a 500T SSD from a major manufacturer (not server grade
but entirely acceptable for routine use) for $100.

Surely you must mean 500 GB, not T(erabyte)?!

Yes, because I can't type worth a damn. That was definitely a thinko.

I'll stick to conventional hard disks for now. They're much cheaper
than SS disks, and reasonably reliable, and I'm comfortable dealing
with them. They're slower, of course, not that has not ever been a
problem for me. I've been led to believe that SSDs are liable to fail
prematurely without warning. That's enough to put me off them. HDD is a
mature and proven technology.

Rotating hard drives are likely to fail without warning too. Drives
fail a lot, and neither HDDs nor SDDs should ever be considered to be
reliable. Always have backups. Always. If possible, have snapshots too.

You can get 4 terabyte hard disks for well under $100 any day of the
week. That's a lot of bang for the buck.

It is. Get two, and mirror them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Michael Beacom[_4_]]

On 2019-12-24 03:00:11 +0000, Trevor said:

On 24/12/2019 6:18 am, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Phil W wrote:
The "problem" is, that Apple wants to apply crazy high prices for an SSD
(just like all other upgradable hardware parts) compared to other
manufacturers. If Apple could just get off their arrogant path of "our stuff
ist bettererererer, because it´s so much more expensive!111111" and make
more reasonable prices for hardware, it could be a little more fair for
everyone involved.

Apple charges it because people pay it.

Yep, they have always charged what they can get away with, and it seems
Apple tragic's will happily pay whatever they ask.



And on the PC desktop end of things, you have expensive hardware
and junk hardware and there is no middle ground there either.


Now that is just plain wrong. It's easy to buy a new generic PC from
about $500 to over $8k with every conceivable price point in between
well covered. Perhaps not from every single manufacturer, but you have
SO many to choose from, unlike Apple.

Well, not happily. My desk top Mac get changed every 8 or 9 years, and
my laptop is 12 years old. The SSD makes the Mac Book Pro far less
annoying.
The only reason I bought a new iMac this year was for video editing.

I bought an iPhone SE for half price after it was discontinued. Don't
see a need for tan Apple Watch.