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hollywood_steve
 
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Default flying mics in theatre setting for classical gig

I'm starting to plan for a gig later this fall that will require me to
fly 3 mics in front of the stage in a mid-sized theatre. (no mic
stands allowed). I have read several threads about complex, 3 point
rope systems tied to the balcony; but I was looking more towards
hanging down from the stage overhead catwalks. Although I haven't
finalized the choice of mics, I'm leaning towards some large, heavy
models that can not be supported by the mic cable - these will require
something more substantial - some kind of dedicated support line that
the mic cable will be tied to.

Most of my location experience has been in tiny jazz clubs where my
mics are 5ft away from the rest of my gear. But on this theatre gig,
I'm running into 2 different problems while I'm still trying to think
this through on paper. #1) I'll be using cardiod pattern mics and I
have no idea how to keep the capsules pointed in the right direction,
and #2) by the time the mics hang down from the catwalks to the proper
height (maybe 14ft off the floor), my mic cable runs are gonna be
huge, close to 200 ft. (40ft back up to the catwalks, 50ft over to
where I can drop down, nearly 60ft down to ground level, and almost
another 50ft over to where the recorder and preamps are to be
located.) At what point will any signal degradation start to become
noticeable? The only way to get the preamps closer to the mics would
be to drag them up into the catwalks, do folks actually do this?

steve

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Benjamin Maas
 
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Default flying mics in theatre setting for classical gig

"hollywood_steve" wrote in message ...
I'm starting to plan for a gig later this fall that will require me to
fly 3 mics in front of the stage in a mid-sized theatre. (no mic
stands allowed). I have read several threads about complex, 3 point
rope systems tied to the balcony; but I was looking more towards
hanging down from the stage overhead catwalks. Although I haven't
finalized the choice of mics, I'm leaning towards some large, heavy
models that can not be supported by the mic cable - these will require
something more substantial - some kind of dedicated support line that
the mic cable will be tied to.

Most of my location experience has been in tiny jazz clubs where my
mics are 5ft away from the rest of my gear. But on this theatre gig,
I'm running into 2 different problems while I'm still trying to think
this through on paper. #1) I'll be using cardiod pattern mics and I
have no idea how to keep the capsules pointed in the right direction,
and #2) by the time the mics hang down from the catwalks to the proper
height (maybe 14ft off the floor), my mic cable runs are gonna be
huge, close to 200 ft. (40ft back up to the catwalks, 50ft over to
where I can drop down, nearly 60ft down to ground level, and almost
another 50ft over to where the recorder and preamps are to be
located.) At what point will any signal degradation start to become
noticeable? The only way to get the preamps closer to the mics would
be to drag them up into the catwalks, do folks actually do this?

steve


What theater are you going to be in? That will determine a lot about how
you are going to go about flying your microphones. For ease of use, I would
suggest mics that can be suspended by the cables- Often, in many of the
rooms around town, the hardest thing is to find a drop point that works for
the mic positioning. Often, they are in far from ideal locations.

When I do this, I do one of a few things:

Get hanging slugs- AEA and Alpha Sound and Lighting sell them and they cost
a few $$ each (much cheaper than the fancier Neumann ones that run $100/ea).
Attach them to the mic clip and wire-tie the cable to them in the groove.
Tie a string to the loop in the cable to pull back to the balcony. Between
the slug and the tie, you can get a pretty accurate direction. For an ORTF
pair in the center, you can tie a stereo bar back and affix the cables to it
(going through a double clip for strain relief helps here).

As far a cable runs are concerned, I've never had signal degradation with a
200 foot run using good quality cable when using condenser microphones.
Some say that they hear that and will actually position mic pres in the
catwalks. When I worked with Long Beach symphony on their broadcasts, we
used tube mics across the front and we brought the power supplies up top on
numerous occasions.

Also, bring somebody to help you fly your mics- it is a bitch to do that
yourself.

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com



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P Stamler
 
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Default flying mics in theatre setting for classical gig

On one occasion I was able to hang a microphone stand upside-down from the
catwalks; there were two catwalks about 4" apart, nice and sturdy, and I simply
turned the stand over and threaded it on through -- I think I rested it on two
hunks of foam, but I don't remember for sure. It had a stereo bar on top, a
coupla E-V shock mounts, and a pair of small-diaphragm condensers. Rehearsal
night KM-84s, but on the afternoon of the performance I was able to borrow a
pair of Schoepses, which I went up and installed adter getting permission from
the IATSE guys who were having lunch and didn't feel like stirring. ORTF,
sounded great. Until at the very end of the concert, a one-time-only thing,
when a lighting instrument commenced to buzzing off to the right, and there
wasn't a frigging thing I could do about it. But the rest of the concert
sounded quite nice.

Peace,
Paul
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Jim Weld
 
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Default flying mics in theatre setting for classical gig

I have used a stereo bar for a single TLM170 mic (fairly heavy) and mounted
the mic in the middle of the bar. I then used rope through the two outer
"mic" holes to guide the mic into position. The mic cable itself can be
used to pull the mic forward and backward. No matter what, it will take a
little experimenting. But get a stereo bar, or make one yourself, because
they come in handy for hanging.

I'm sort of used to long cable runs; just make sure you don't parallel some
lighting cables, or you'll be sorry when the lights come up.

Jim Weld


"hollywood_steve" wrote in message
om...
I'm starting to plan for a gig later this fall that will require me to
fly 3 mics in front of the stage in a mid-sized theatre. (no mic
stands allowed). I have read several threads about complex, 3 point
rope systems tied to the balcony; but I was looking more towards
hanging down from the stage overhead catwalks. Although I haven't
finalized the choice of mics, I'm leaning towards some large, heavy
models that can not be supported by the mic cable - these will require
something more substantial - some kind of dedicated support line that
the mic cable will be tied to.

Most of my location experience has been in tiny jazz clubs where my
mics are 5ft away from the rest of my gear. But on this theatre gig,
I'm running into 2 different problems while I'm still trying to think
this through on paper. #1) I'll be using cardiod pattern mics and I
have no idea how to keep the capsules pointed in the right direction,
and #2) by the time the mics hang down from the catwalks to the proper
height (maybe 14ft off the floor), my mic cable runs are gonna be
huge, close to 200 ft. (40ft back up to the catwalks, 50ft over to
where I can drop down, nearly 60ft down to ground level, and almost
another 50ft over to where the recorder and preamps are to be
located.) At what point will any signal degradation start to become
noticeable? The only way to get the preamps closer to the mics would
be to drag them up into the catwalks, do folks actually do this?

steve



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Scott Dorsey
 
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Default flying mics in theatre setting for classical gig

hollywood_steve wrote:
I'm starting to plan for a gig later this fall that will require me to
fly 3 mics in front of the stage in a mid-sized theatre. (no mic
stands allowed). I have read several threads about complex, 3 point
rope systems tied to the balcony; but I was looking more towards
hanging down from the stage overhead catwalks. Although I haven't
finalized the choice of mics, I'm leaning towards some large, heavy
models that can not be supported by the mic cable - these will require
something more substantial - some kind of dedicated support line that
the mic cable will be tied to.


Schoeps sells a kit to do what you want.

Most of my location experience has been in tiny jazz clubs where my
mics are 5ft away from the rest of my gear. But on this theatre gig,
I'm running into 2 different problems while I'm still trying to think
this through on paper. #1) I'll be using cardiod pattern mics and I
have no idea how to keep the capsules pointed in the right direction,


By using two lines per mike in a V, rather than just one line.

and #2) by the time the mics hang down from the catwalks to the proper
height (maybe 14ft off the floor), my mic cable runs are gonna be
huge, close to 200 ft. (40ft back up to the catwalks, 50ft over to
where I can drop down, nearly 60ft down to ground level, and almost
another 50ft over to where the recorder and preamps are to be
located.) At what point will any signal degradation start to become
noticeable? The only way to get the preamps closer to the mics would
be to drag them up into the catwalks, do folks actually do this?


Some people do. But with the Schoeps mikes, 200 feet is a minimal cable
run. I run a thousand feet all the time. With a 77DX, 200 feet will be
a real problem, though. Depends on the mikes.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Richard Crowley
 
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Default flying mics in theatre setting for classical gig

"ScotFraser" wrote ...
I've run mic cables on battens carrying a couple dozen
1K lekos with no induced noise from the proximity. Where
I DO hear noise, though, is from the filaments
when the lights are at anything less than 100% brightness.


Enough DI/DT limiting (chokes) to keep EMI from coupling
into your mic lines, but apparently not enough to keep the
filaments from "singing". Or maybe they have a particularly
"floppy" style bulb?



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ScotFraser
 
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Default flying mics in theatre setting for classical gig

Enough DI/DT limiting (chokes) to keep EMI from coupling
into your mic lines, but apparently not enough to keep the
filaments from "singing". Or maybe they have a particularly
"floppy" style bulb?

The rectangular waveform of the dimmed current makes the filaments vibrate,
resulting in acoustic noise anywhere near the lamps.


Scott Fraser
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