[Ed Wicks[_3_]]

I plug my Roland R-07digital recorder into Rec Out of the Behringer amp in
the club where my band plays. Is the recording I get a fair representation of
what the audience is hearing through the mains? If, say, the banjo is too
loud and my vocal too soft on the recording, is that probably the way the
audience perceives it?

I am an audio rookie, and the guy who runs the sound isn€„¢t very
informed about the rig and doesn€„¢t know what audio is coming out of
Rec Out or, if it is controllable, how to control it.

Thanks for help and patience.

Ed

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 9/2/2019 3:04 PM, Ed Wicks wrote:

I plug my Roland R-07digital recorder into Rec Out of the Behringer amp in
the club where my band plays. Is the recording I get a fair representation of
what the audience is hearing through the mains? If, say, the banjo is too
loud and my vocal too soft on the recording, is that probably the way the
audience perceives it?

It's a direct copy of what's being fed to the speakers. I don't know
what kind of music you're playing (bluegrass, old time, dixieland,
minstrel, Irish . . etc) but if the banjo is too loud and vocal too soft
in the recording, that suggests that the person mixing just pushed all
the channel faders (or knobs if that's what's on the mixer) up to the
same "number" and called it a mix. In general a banjo is louder than a
vocal, so a good mix would push the vocal up some, or the banjo down some.

A lot depends on the size and configuration of the venue. If it's a
small club, say 30 to 100 or so seats, loud instruments like the banjo
will carry acoustically and won't need as much, or any, amplification as
vocals or quieter instruments.

I am an audio rookie, and the guy who runs the sound isn€„¢t very
informed about the rig and doesn€„¢t know what audio is coming out of
Rec Out or, if it is controllable, how to control it.

Sounds like a bad combination to me. I could tell you more if you know
the model number for the Behringer. Generally there's no control over
the Rec Out - it's the same mix as the Main outpus that feed the
speakers. It may come after or before the master output level control,
meaning that the level follows changes to the master control, or it
doesn't change when changing the master level.

A "Board mix" can work fairly well in a medium to large venue where the
audience is some distance from the stage and nearly all of what the
audience hears comes from the speakers. If you want to get an idea of
how you sound to the audience, record with your recorder's built-in
mics, and put it someplace where a listener might sit or stand.

If you want to get a good mix without too much room ambience or audience
noise, you need a mixer that allows you to make two independent mixes,
one for the house and one for the recording, and someone who knows how
to mix your music.

If I'm working with an acoustic band and a simple mixing console, in a
venue that doesn't use monitors on stage, I'll use the monitor bus to
mix the house and use the main bus so I can have a different mix, and
one in stereo, for the recording. That's the general idea, but you need
to know whether the "monitor" mix is before or after the equalizer
section, and also whether it's before or after the channel fader or
level knob. Some mixers give you some choices, others are hard-wired and
you need to know what you have.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Ed Wicks wrote:

I plug my Roland R-07digital recorder into Rec Out of the Behringer amp in
the club where my band plays. Is the recording I get a fair representation of
what the audience is hearing through the mains? If, say, the banjo is too
loud and my vocal too soft on the recording, is that probably the way the
audience perceives it?

Yes. However, what the audience is hearing is a mixture of what is coming
through the mains and the direct sounds off of the instruments. So, especially
in a smaller room, the PA mix is only a small fraction of the actual total
sound that they are hearing.

This is why we call it "sound reinforcement" and not "sound replacement."

I am an audio rookie, and the guy who runs the sound isn€„¢t very
informed about the rig and doesn€„¢t know what audio is coming out of
Rec Out or, if it is controllable, how to control it.

Record it and listen. It's likely not to be a very balanced mix, because
whatever is most quiet in the room will be most loud in the PA.

You can put a microphone on stage to record ambient sound, and then record
that next to the PA feed, and mix the two after the fact to get a reasonable
representation of the sound.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Williamson]

On 02/09/2019 22:34, Scott Dorsey wrote:

You can put a microphone on stage to record ambient sound, and then record
that next to the PA feed, and mix the two after the fact to get a reasonable
representation of the sound.
--scott

I have had good results using a stereo pair in the boundary effect
region near the angle between the rear wall and the ceiling.

But it does depend on the room, the band and the mix.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

On 3/09/2019 7:04 am, Ed Wicks wrote:

I plug my Roland R-07digital recorder into Rec Out of the Behringer amp in
the club where my band plays. Is the recording I get a fair representation of
what the audience is hearing through the mains? If, say, the banjo is too
loud and my vocal too soft on the recording, is that probably the way the
audience perceives it?

I am an audio rookie, and the guy who runs the sound isn€„¢t very
informed about the rig and doesn€„¢t know what audio is coming out of
Rec Out or, if it is controllable, how to control it.

Thanks for help and patience.

Ed


Roughly yes.

The bits that may different to what the audience hears are the
characteristics imparted the speaker(s) and room, and to a hopefully
lesser degree, amplification. And any audience/room/hvac/etc noises.

Short of hanging some high-quality mics is a great position, that's the
best you'll get. And even the, give those previously mentioned
variables, that may actually be not as good as the Rec Out signal.


geoff

[geoff]

On 3/09/2019 3:22 pm, geoff wrote:
On 3/09/2019 7:04 am, Ed Wicks wrote:

I plug my Roland R-07digital recorder into Rec Out of the Behringer
amp in
the club where my band plays. Is the recording I get a fair
representation of
what the audience is hearing through the mains? If, say, the banjo is too
loud and my vocal too soft on the recording, is that probably the way the
audience perceives it?

I am an audio rookie, and the guy who runs the sound isn€„¢t very
informed about the rig and doesn€„¢t know what audio is coming out of
Rec Out or, if it is controllable, how to control it.

Thanks for help and patience.

Ed


Roughly yes.

The bits that may different to what the audience hears are the
characteristics imparted the speaker(s) and room, and to a hopefully
lesser degree, amplification. And any audience/room/hvac/etc noises.

Short of hanging some high-quality mics is a great position, that's the
best you'll get. And even the, give those previously mentioned
variables, that may actually be not as good as the Rec Out signal.


geoff


...... but of course this depends on the nature of the gig and what is
actually going through the PA in the first place.

If 'everything', and the stage sound in insignificant, then Rec Out may
be fine.

If, say, only vocals and a few selected other items are going through
the PA, then the mic approach is necessary to capture the whole picture.

geoff