From: ScottW - view profile
Date: Fri, Feb 10 2006 3:30 pm
Email: "ScottW"

As it should. If this is true (I hadn't heard that) then I believe it
makes the wiretaps even worse. Now the legal justifications Gonzalez,
et al, are spinning are clearly not simply confused interpretations of
the law, but instead are deliberate lies to cover up intentionally
breaking the law. That is, I believe, grounds for impeachment.

You're losing it.... Listen to Hugh Hewitt's smart guys debate this
once in a while and get some real perspective.

Why? Don't Rush or Hannity give it enough perspective?

You're practically requiring our Armed Forces Intell teams to get
warrants to surveill the enemy.

Intellectual dishonesty noted, unless you don't understand the
difference between NSA wiretaps and military intel.

Then the news that Scooter Libby admitted that high-level (read:
Cheney) administration officials told him to leak secret information to
help sell the war in Iraq to the public should be very upsetting to you
indeed.

Except that story is unraveling as Scooters attorney denies it.
Looks like more Mapes quality reporting.

The problem is that he said it during Grand Jury testimony. It's a
little harder to spin out of that one...

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
oups.com...
From: ScottW - view profile
Date: Fri, Feb 10 2006 3:30 pm
Email: "ScottW"

As it should. If this is true (I hadn't heard that) then I believe it
makes the wiretaps even worse. Now the legal justifications Gonzalez,
et al, are spinning are clearly not simply confused interpretations of
the law, but instead are deliberate lies to cover up intentionally
breaking the law. That is, I believe, grounds for impeachment.

You're losing it.... Listen to Hugh Hewitt's smart guys debate this
once in a while and get some real perspective.

Why? Don't Rush or Hannity give it enough perspective?

You're practically requiring our Armed Forces Intell teams to get
warrants to surveill the enemy.

Intellectual dishonesty noted, unless you don't understand the
difference between NSA wiretaps and military intel.

Then the news that Scooter Libby admitted that high-level (read:
Cheney) administration officials told him to leak secret information to
help sell the war in Iraq to the public should be very upsetting to you
indeed.

Except that story is unraveling as Scooters attorney denies it.
Looks like more Mapes quality reporting.

The problem is that he said it during Grand Jury testimony. It's a
little harder to spin out of that one...

from the LA times.

"Fitzgerald's letter did not specify which National Intelligence Estimate
Libby shared with reporters or whether it was classified, and Fitzgerald has
not charged Libby with disclosing classified information. Fitzgerald said in
the letter that he intended to introduce the testimony at Libby's trial, set
for January 2007, as part of establishing a "narrative of the events" rather
than to show that a crime was committed."

and more detail from the WSJ

http://tinyurl.com/ch62z


ScottW

Corruption, law-breaking, directives on releasing potentially secret
and secret information (Plame and Iraq), poor administration leadership
during and after Katrina...

The list keeps growing. The wheels are falling off the gop elephant
rapidly.

Oh what a tangled web they weave...

You just go ahead and stay blind. That way, when they lose the majority
you'll be surprised.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
oups.com...
Corruption, law-breaking, directives on releasing potentially secret
and secret information (Plame and Iraq), poor administration leadership
during and after Katrina...

The list keeps growing. The wheels are falling off the gop elephant
rapidly.

Oh what a tangled web they weave...

You just go ahead and stay blind. That way, when they lose the majority
you'll be surprised.

You really think a FU'd administration has that much influence on
Congressional races? The GOP is still way better organized than
a Dean led party. Personally... I'll vote for anyone who committs to
stopping illegal immigration but I'll probably have to settle for no
earmarks.

ScottW

Corruption, law-breaking, directives on releasing potentially secret
and secret information (Plame and Iraq), poor administration leadership
during and after Katrina...

You really think a FU'd administration has that much influence on
Congressional races? The GOP is still way better organized than
a Dean led party. Personally... I'll vote for anyone who committs to
stopping illegal immigration but I'll probably have to settle for no
earmarks.

You really think the above list is only representative of Bushie's
administration? (And I do agree it applies to them as well...)

The corruption scandal is just taking shape in Congress, and the VAST
majority of those who are in trouble appear to be republican.

Organized or not, the people are beginning to see what the republicans
represent. I presume you saw the poll yesterday that more people trust
the Dems than the republicans, and the the majority believes
republicans are more likely to take bribes than Dems?

The wind is beginning to shift and none too soon.

And you prove my point about single-interest voters willing to take
whoever supports their position versus the rest of their platform, so
stop the self-righteous denials.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
oups.com...
Corruption, law-breaking, directives on releasing potentially secret
and secret information (Plame and Iraq), poor administration leadership
during and after Katrina...

You really think a FU'd administration has that much influence on
Congressional races? The GOP is still way better organized than
a Dean led party. Personally... I'll vote for anyone who committs to
stopping illegal immigration but I'll probably have to settle for no
earmarks.

You really think the above list is only representative of Bushie's
administration? (And I do agree it applies to them as well...)

The corruption scandal is just taking shape in Congress, and the VAST
majority of those who are in trouble appear to be republican.

I live near Cunninghams district and I don't hear squat about democrats
in the race.... theres a political nephyte and a school board member.
I don't think republicans will necessarily blame the party for individual
crap.

All I have to do is look at the hypocrisy of Pelosi opposing the
gerrymandering
initiative. They have power in Ca and did anything to keep it.


Organized or not, the people are beginning to see what the republicans
represent. I presume you saw the poll yesterday that more people trust
the Dems than the republicans, and the the majority believes
republicans are more likely to take bribes than Dems?

Nope... got a reference.


The wind is beginning to shift and none too soon.

It always does.


And you prove my point about single-interest voters willing to take
whoever supports their position versus the rest of their platform,

when did you make that point?

ScottW

Organized or not, the people are beginning to see what the republicans
represent. I presume you saw the poll yesterday that more people trust
the Dems than the republicans, and the the majority believes
republicans are more likely to take bribes than Dems?

Nope... got a reference.

Here's a compilation of polling data:

http://www.pollingreport.com/politics.htm

And a very current one:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollV...ory?id=1283170

And you prove my point about single-interest voters willing to take
whoever supports their position versus the rest of their platform,

when did you make that point?

You need to pay better attention. I've made that point several times.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
ups.com...
Organized or not, the people are beginning to see what the republicans
represent. I presume you saw the poll yesterday that more people trust
the Dems than the republicans, and the the majority believes
republicans are more likely to take bribes than Dems?

Nope... got a reference.

Here's a compilation of polling data:

http://www.pollingreport.com/politics.htm

Honestly... the democrat numbers only look good when
compared to republican numbers which are deservedly awful.

Neither party is trusted... and this goes right back to our primary system
and election financing IMO. I'd like to see clean elections.

http://www.publicampaign.org/

and for you Ca

http://www.caclean.org/petition/


ScottW

ScottW

And a very current one:

you mean a not very current one being 3 months

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollV...ory?id=1283170

And you prove my point about single-interest voters willing to take
whoever supports their position versus the rest of their platform,

when did you make that point?

You need to pay better attention. I've made that point several times.

From: ScottW
Date: Sun, Feb 12 2006 9:34 pm
Email: "ScottW"

you mean a not very current one being 3 months

My bad. Check out the AP-Ipsos poll of Feb 10th. It should be in your
paper.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
oups.com...
From: ScottW
Date: Sun, Feb 12 2006 9:34 pm
Email: "ScottW"

Neither party is trusted... and this goes right back to our primary system
and election financing IMO. I'd like to see clean elections.

http://www.publicampaign.org/

and for you Ca

http://www.caclean.org/petition/

I heard Al Franken talking this idea up on Air America last week.

I think that this is possibly an area republicans and Democrats could
agree.

It appears to be mostly democratically supported in Ca.
my republican rep voted against it for which I shot off the
canned mail expressing disgust.

Strangely enough... it was a democrat who killed it in committee last year.

I have some trepidation... if we truly have a majority rule we could just
end up with
massive socialism.... but in Ca the state legislature seems to be owned by
state employees
unions and this looks to be a way to break their hold.

ScottW

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
oups.com...
From: ScottW
Date: Sun, Feb 12 2006 9:34 pm
Email: "ScottW"

you mean a not very current one being 3 months

My bad. Check out the AP-Ipsos poll of Feb 10th. It should be in your
paper.


I hate these polls. I got called about 2 years ago and they asked if I
supported Bush.
I said no... and they never asked why. I think everyone has something
they don't like
about incumbent presidents... their second term numbers always suck...though
Bush has excelled at it.

I see the warrant debate has become a 50-50 issue.

ScottW

From: ScottW
Date: Sun, Feb 12 2006 10:12 pm
Email: "ScottW"

I see the warrant debate has become a 50-50 issue.

Yes. Bushie and crew have been selling that one pretty hard recently.

Unfortunately, things become a battle of public opinion vs. right or
wrong. I think he broke the law. It will become "But the public *wants*
me to do it!" Another argument against 'true' democracy IMO.

I'd like to hear about just one case where the wiretaps made a
difference. I think we would have by now if there was one. Maybe I
missed it.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:08:41 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You really think a FU'd administration has that much influence on
Congressional races? The GOP is still way better organized than
a Dean led party. Personally... I'll vote for anyone who committs

Obviously, the federal government's involvement in education never
helped YOU. Nor did the attempt at education, for that matter.

duh-Scottie steps on an un upturned rake.

Dean led party.
committs

Obviously, the federal government's involvement in education never
helped YOU. Nor did the attempt at education, for that matter.

"You're too wound up in your weird thought process and anger to see
otherwise. "

Even when an observation has all the subtlety of an outhouse on a hot
summer day, you still manage to miss the point.

On 13 Feb 2006 09:19:17 -0800, "ScottW" wrote:


dave weil wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:08:41 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You really think a FU'd administration has that much influence on
Congressional races? The GOP is still way better organized than
a Dean led party. Personally... I'll vote for anyone who committs

Obviously, the federal government's involvement in education never
helped YOU. Nor did the attempt at education, for that matter.

"You're too wound up in your weird thought process and anger to see
otherwise. "

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Oh wait...