You can't blame it on 'City Hall'. Once the power and phones have
gone (
not to mention the place is flooded ) there's essentially nothing much
they can do. It needs national scale action past that point.

Exactly. The US Army was the ONLY help and alternative available in the
immediate hours after this disaster.

Bush should have recognized, or have been told in his case, of the
scope of this disater and ordered in special forces within hours,
dropped by helicoper (just like those ARMY TV commercials?) ... to
secure the City. This is textbook military procedure.

Then there should have been water and MRE air drops the next day all
over the city for the survivors (they went at least 3 days with no food
or water which seriously destablized the situation)

With the quick drop off of troops, he city would have been secured much
quicker for rescuers to come in and much less looting from people
looking for food and water........ The evacuation would have had more
time to proceed once the population had basic sustenance.

Many lives were lost from a lack of leadership and quick response to
stabilize the situation.



J West

Arny Krueger wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote
Arny Krueger wrote:

How to obtain unlimited amounts of water after a flood -
boil the copiously available water in houseold kettles
over wood fires.

Which suggests the writer has little experience
attempting to find dry wood after a flood.

The writer has been backwoods camping for decades.

Just as I said, the writer has little experience attempting to find dry
wood after a flood.

I've had my water filtration fail out in the woods, about a
week trek from civilization. This is the Boundary Waters
area, so it rained good several times during that time.

It rained. Wow. And how deeply were you flooded? Could you still touch
ground with your feet?

We carried enough fuel for cooking, but not for boiling
water which does indeed have rather massive energy needs.

Have any idea
how much wood it takes, in makeshift conditions, to boil
a gallon of water?

I've done it. Twice a day for over a week. Party of 8 or 9.

While camping in the _woods_.

The furniture ain't going to cut for long.

This is my families life versus a room in a house that is
already pretty well ruined. Too bad about the house.

No, this is you imagining you have experience surviving a major flood.

--
ha

hank alrich wrote:


No, this is you imagining you have experience surviving a major flood.


Maybe he can abx the situation. This is the only way we'd know for sure.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:03:32 +0000, hank alrich wrote:

No, this is you imagining you have experience surviving a major flood.

That's our Arny.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:09:21 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote:

Holy **** Arny. You really wrore some idiotic stuff there.

I suppose you expect the survivors to be trained in bushcraft so as to
make fires from driftwood too ?

If ppl followed your advice I expect there'd be an outbreak of cholera or
whatever next !

That's our Arny.

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Jebabical" wrote in message


Um, perhaps you need to study the facts. 10's of
thousands of people were directed to the superdome and
the convention center. Could they at least have brought
these people water? How hard would it be?

Fact is, the city should have stockpiled enough water at
the Superdome.

Whilst the city is being evacuated ?

Before.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Jebabical" wrote in message


Um, perhaps you need to study the facts. 10's of
thousands of people were directed to the superdome and
the convention center. Could they at least have brought
these people water? How hard would it be?

Fact is, the city should have stockpiled enough water at
the Superdome.

Whilst the city is being evacuated ?

Before.

That would require forward planning. One that accepted using the
Superdome as a refuge. I'll bet there wouldbe ppl criticising such a
plan.

Graham

jakdedert wrote:

Dale Farmer wrote:

snip
The old disaster mantra was that one should have enough
food/water/medications to go for three days without outside
assistance. I think that I'm going to see about increasing that
to two weeks worth at my home. Mostly I need to find a
place to store that much potable water, and buy more propane
for the camp stove.

You're talking about people who, at the end of the month (which this
was), have little--if any--money left to address their *daily* needs.

You want them to go out and buy a camp stove?

jak

I was talking about me. I already own a camp stove. Cupboard
usually has enough random canned/dry foods that my family can
live on for a week, especially considering that we would be eating
everything out of the fridge/freezer the first day or so.
Couple of years ago I invested in a small campers water filter
pump, and bought a container of calcium hypochlorite ( swimming
pool chlorine powder) with the chlorine test strips so I could
sanitize the water. Long as the house stays more or less intact,
we're ok.


--Dale

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear"
wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Jebabical" wrote in message


Um, perhaps you need to study the facts. 10's of
thousands of people were directed to the superdome and
the convention center. Could they at least have
brought these people water? How hard would it be?

Fact is, the city should have stockpiled enough water
at the Superdome.

Whilst the city is being evacuated ?

Before.

That would require forward planning.

That's what leaders do, planning.

One that accepted
using the Superdome as a refuge. I'll bet there wouldbe
ppl criticising such a plan.

A refuge is supposed to be pre-stocked with food and water.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear"
wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Jebabical" wrote in message


Um, perhaps you need to study the facts. 10's of
thousands of people were directed to the superdome and
the convention center. Could they at least have
brought these people water? How hard would it be?

Fact is, the city should have stockpiled enough water
at the Superdome.

Whilst the city is being evacuated ?

Before.

That would require forward planning.

That's what leaders do, planning.

Apparently the US's top leader wasn't interested !


One that accepted
using the Superdome as a refuge. I'll bet there wouldbe
ppl criticising such a plan.

A refuge is supposed to be pre-stocked with food and water.

Were the old nuclear shelters so stocked in Cold War days ? I bet they
weren't !

Graham

Kind of hard to put any of these plans into motion when you are stuck on
a rooftop with water just below you. Or worse, in a tree.

Yeah, but blame the citizens, their situation is all their fault. Right.

Dale Farmer wrote:

jakdedert wrote:


Dale Farmer wrote:

snip

The old disaster mantra was that one should have enough
food/water/medications to go for three days without outside
assistance. I think that I'm going to see about increasing that
to two weeks worth at my home. Mostly I need to find a
place to store that much potable water, and buy more propane
for the camp stove.

You're talking about people who, at the end of the month (which this
was), have little--if any--money left to address their *daily* needs.

You want them to go out and buy a camp stove?

jak


I was talking about me. I already own a camp stove. Cupboard
usually has enough random canned/dry foods that my family can
live on for a week, especially considering that we would be eating
everything out of the fridge/freezer the first day or so.
Couple of years ago I invested in a small campers water filter
pump, and bought a container of calcium hypochlorite ( swimming
pool chlorine powder) with the chlorine test strips so I could
sanitize the water. Long as the house stays more or less intact,
we're ok.


--Dale

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jebabical" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

It has been recently revealed to me that it was
well-known,


Blah blah blah.

How about water? Humans can't go long without it. 5 days
before they could start dropping some bottles of water??

Under the circumstances, they had plenty of opportunity to stockpile safe
water before the slow flooding commenced.

They were adrift in a sea of water, it was just polluted. I guess nobody
ever heard of boiling water. They'd rather die of thirst.

Pathetic, ****ing pathetic. Seems we are worse than a
third world country. At least while Bush is in charge.
Unbelievable.

If you study the history of large scale disaster management, recently 3-5
days has been the benchmark number for broad national government emergency
support to show up.

Refugee situation aside, there has been no comparable national disaster in
the history of the US. Let's review - 100,000 people lost in an urban area
that started out with 500,000 people, urban infrastructure including
police, emergency and fire almost totally hindered by the fact that most
streets were impassible for the last 3-8 miles up to the victims were,
victims are poor uneducated people that lacked the resources to get out,
meet their own needs by simply stockpiling water after the hurricane
passed, or boil abundant but polluted water.

I don't think the water works were working after the hurricane passed. As
for boiling water, what would you use to heat it up? All of this presumes
that the people affected had the presence of mind to take these precautions.
I'm not even sure I would have under the circumstances.

Norm Strong

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jebabical" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

It has been recently revealed to me that it was
well-known,


Blah blah blah.

How about water? Humans can't go long without it. 5 days
before they could start dropping some bottles of water??

Under the circumstances, they had plenty of opportunity to stockpile safe
water before the slow flooding commenced.

They were adrift in a sea of water, it was just polluted. I guess nobody
ever heard of boiling water. They'd rather die of thirst.

Pathetic, ****ing pathetic. Seems we are worse than a
third world country. At least while Bush is in charge.
Unbelievable.

If you study the history of large scale disaster management, recently 3-5
days has been the benchmark number for broad national government emergency
support to show up.

Refugee situation aside, there has been no comparable national disaster in
the history of the US. Let's review - 100,000 people lost in an urban area
that started out with 500,000 people, urban infrastructure including
police, emergency and fire almost totally hindered by the fact that most
streets were impassible for the last 3-8 miles up to the victims were,
victims are poor uneducated people that lacked the resources to get out,
meet their own needs by simply stockpiling water after the hurricane
passed, or boil abundant but polluted water.

I don't think the water works were working after the hurricane passed. As
for boiling water, what would you use to heat it up? All of this presumes
that the people affected had the presence of mind to take these precautions.
I'm not even sure I would have under the circumstances.

Norm Strong

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear"
wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear"
wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Jebabical" wrote in message


Um, perhaps you need to study the facts. 10's of
thousands of people were directed to the superdome
and the convention center. Could they at least have
brought these people water? How hard would it be?

Fact is, the city should have stockpiled enough water
at the Superdome.

Whilst the city is being evacuated ?

Before.

That would require forward planning.

That's what leaders do, planning.

Apparently the US's top leader wasn't interested !

Not his job - it was the job of the leaders at the state and
city level. See the planning done for California:

http://www.oes.ca.gov/Operational/OE...nsf/1?OpenForm

and Los Angles:

http://www.updatela.com/

One that accepted
using the Superdome as a refuge. I'll bet there wouldbe
ppl criticising such a plan.

A refuge is supposed to be pre-stocked with food and
water.

Were the old nuclear shelters so stocked in Cold War days
? I bet they weren't !

You'd lose. Our church had one in our basement. There were
big drums of food and water.

wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jebabical" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

It has been recently revealed to me that it was
well-known,


Blah blah blah.

How about water? Humans can't go long without it. 5 days
before they could start dropping some bottles of water??

Under the circumstances, they had plenty of opportunity
to stockpile safe water before the slow flooding
commenced. They were adrift in a sea of water, it was
just
polluted. I guess nobody ever heard of boiling water.
They'd rather die of thirst.
Pathetic, ****ing pathetic. Seems we are worse than a
third world country. At least while Bush is in charge.
Unbelievable.

If you study the history of large scale disaster
management, recently 3-5 days has been the benchmark
number for broad national government emergency support
to show up. Refugee situation aside, there has been no
comparable
national disaster in the history of the US. Let's review
- 100,000 people lost in an urban area that started out
with 500,000 people, urban infrastructure including
police, emergency and fire almost totally hindered by
the fact that most streets were impassible for the last
3-8 miles up to the victims were, victims are poor
uneducated people that lacked the resources to get out,
meet their own needs by simply stockpiling water after
the hurricane passed, or boil abundant but polluted
water.

I don't think the water works were working after the
hurricane passed.

Nobody should wait so long.

As for boiling water, what would you
use to heat it up?

The city has been dry and sunny for days since the
hurrcane - plenty of dry wood around above the water in the
form of houses.

All of this presumes that the people
affected had the presence of mind to take these
precautions.

Plus their leaders.

I'm not even sure I would have under the circumstances.

A lesson learned?

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

snip

As for boiling water, what would you
use to heat it up?

The city has been dry and sunny for days since the hurrcane - plenty of
dry wood around above the water in the form of houses.

All of this presumes that the people

Beautiful, Arny. Build a fire on the roof of a frame house to boil water!
Very, very smart.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Les Cargill" wrote in message


Bob Cain wrote:



wrote:

[...]


while those areas continued to build up, NO stayed in
place until it was well below sea level. It's not nice
to fool with Mother Nature.


???

I don't understand how something that was above sea
level came to be below it without one going down or the
other going up.


Vegetative matter under the city dies and rots,
shrinking. There's silt deposition around the levees.


That and subsidance due to removal of minerals and ground
water.


Dunno from the Gulf, but old hand petro dewds I've known
won't allow that the sandstone formations that usually
contain oil change in size t'all when it gets pumped out.

And I know of no active drilling in the Nawlins basin.
It's all out on the other side of the levees. Could
be wrong, but drilling in marshes is worse than about
anything.

Also, sea level is rising.



Unfortunately, that's politically charged and
arguable. Wish we knew for sure.

--
Les Cargill

Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message


As for boiling water, what would you
use to heat it up?

The city has been dry and sunny for days since the
hurrcane - plenty of dry wood around above the water in the
form of houses.

You really are a classic boy scout ****wit clot Arny !

Most ppl aren't trained in bushcraft. I have a rough idea of how to make
a fire without matches and I'd have a try but I'm sure I'd have trouble
with damp wood. ( hint - it doesn't just dry to tinderwood overnight !
).

In any event you really shouldn't be drinking raw sewage ! We have
'treatment plants' for that and they don't just boil the water !

Ohhh - never mind the oil, gas and dead bodies in the water too.


Graham

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

http://www.theinfozone.net/


Anyone notice that the Red Cross has been denied access to New Orleans?



There are reports of rescue workers under sniper fire. Are these
reports bogus? I do not know.

"Osama bin Katrina" might just be putting a few 'things' into perspective here.






Nah. Not even close. I doubt the Loyal Opposition will be able to
glean much political capital, here. Sad, really...

--
Les Cargill

Hi folks:

This just in.

Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, appeared this
morning on Meet the Press.

Two quotes:

"Let me give you just three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three
trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said
we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA -- we had 1,000 gallons of
diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard
said, "Come get the fuel right away." When we got there with our trucks,
they got a word. "FEMA says don't give you the fuel. Yesterday --
yesterday -- FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication
lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in,
he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one
is getting near these lines." Sheriff Henry Lee said that if America --
American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we
wouldn't be in this crisis."

"The guy who runs this building I'm in, emergency management, he's
responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing
home and every day she called him and said, "Are you coming, son? Is
somebody coming?" And he said, "Yeah, Mama, somebosy'd coming to get you.
Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on
Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to
get you on Friday." And she drowned Friday night."

On top of that, last night the BBC World Service interviewed an official of
the Red Cross who said they had been barred from entering New Orleans after
the disaster, by FEMA and the Dept. of Homeland Security (of which FEMA is
now a part). The rationale she said the Red Cross had been given was that if
they helped people in New Orleans, they'd be less likely to evacuate
promptly. Asked what the Red Cross would have provided, she answered that it
would have been the usual things -- food, water, medical help. But FEMA
turned them away.

I say our government failed in its first duty: to protect the American
people.

Peace,
Paul

"Les Cargill" wrote in message .. .
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

http://www.theinfozone.net/


Anyone notice that the Red Cross has been denied access to New Orleans?



There are reports of rescue workers under sniper fire. Are these
reports bogus? I do not know.

Gee Les, if those who are left are those too poor to leave, or the drug addicts
and criminals who stupidly thought they could profit from the disaster, then it
seems very possible to me that the thug who's sitting on the goods he ripped
of or the heroin he needs to sell would stupidly defend his desire to stay.
When it's actually time to move into the neighborhoods and clear them out,
I think some more people are going to die.

Metro N.O is too unsafe for the presence of the Red Cross? Sick....

"Osama bin Katrina" might just be putting a few 'things' into perspective here.

Nah. Not even close. I doubt the Loyal Opposition will be able to
glean much political capital, here. Sad, really...

C'mon... we didn't lose a few buildings because of a lucky terrorist operation here,
the city of New Orleans (and a few others) are practically missing from the map.

Where is the heavy military construction machine? It's in Iraq building hard bases,
since after 911 we were kicked out of Saudi Arabia.

Where was the National Guard? It's in Iraq, contributing to the creation of an
Islamic state, to the detriment of our economy, human lives and any sort of
potential democracy. No more secular state in Iraq... mark me on that one.

Where were the long lines of trucks and equipment, pre-staged along the roads
and highways leading to New Orleans, like they were for brother Jeb when things
got rough, hurricane-wise, in Florida? They weren't... end of story.

Where was our illustrious new "Homeland Zecurity," who is now charged with
overseeing this sort of thing? They weren't... end of story.

Where was the president of the US? Va-f*ucking-cation....

I could go on...

Paul Stamler wrote:

I say our government failed in its first duty: to protect the American
people.

You have to realize that FEMA is basically an organization that came out
of the cold war, and was designed to deal with the effects of a nuclear
attack on the US. One of the major FEMA tenets is to keep information
as secret as possible so that the Russians won't know how badly we are
hit.

Needless to say, this does not make it an effective organization for
dealing with natural disasters in the post-cold war world.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

hank alrich kirjoitti:
We are presently demonstrating a level of federal incompetence that
woudl have been unthinkable a very short time ago. Some folks don't even
know when to quit vacationing.

That reminds me of a picture I saw in our local newspaper this morning:

http://www.turunsanomat.fi/verkkoleh...708,1:0:0:0:0:

See the second picture from the top. That picture made me feel sick. It
seems Bush never fails to find a photo op, no matter what.

Timo

Timo Haanpää wrote:

http://www.turunsanomat.fi/verkkolehti/?ts=
1,4:3:0:0,4:3:1:1:2005-09-04,4:324708,1:0:0:0:0:

See the second picture from the top. That picture made me feel sick. It
seems Bush never fails to find a photo op, no matter what.

ARD or ZDF (german) reported - as I understood what I watched
half-heartedly while doing something else - how a corps recovery with
dogs was arranged to go on in a known empty building so as to constitute
good background images for TV shots of The President. It is all getting
ever more unbelievable and unreal.


Timo


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Scott Dorsey wrote:


You have to realize that FEMA is basically an organization that came out
of the cold war, and was designed to deal with the effects of a nuclear
attack on the US. One of the major FEMA tenets is to keep information
as secret as possible so that the Russians won't know how badly we are
hit.

Needless to say, this does not make it an effective organization for
dealing with natural disasters in the post-cold war world.

Especially with Bush in charge:


---------------------------------------------------


From the Washington Monthly blog, Political Animal:

CHRONOLOGY....Here's a timeline that outlines the fate of both FEMA and
flood control projects in New Orleans under the Bush administration.
Read it and weep:


January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head
of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.


April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush
administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May,
Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that
federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized
entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal
government should be involved and the degree of involvement may
have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."


2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of
the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."


December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he
is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking
to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy, Michael Brown,
who, like Allbaugh, has no previous experience in disaster management.


March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded
into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on
fighting acts of terrorism.


2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation
and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness
and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.


Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding
requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You
would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the
grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."


June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in
New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs
Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in
the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq,
and I suppose that's the price we pay."


June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps
of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit
areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was
created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson,
Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.


August 2005: While New Orleans is undergoing a slow motion catastrophe,
Bush mugs for the cameras, cuts a cake for John McCain, plays the
guitar for Mark Wills, delivers an address about V-J day, and continues
with his vacation. When he finally gets around to acknowledging the
scope of the unfolding disaster, he delivers only a photo op on Air
Force One and a flat, defensive, laundry list speech in the Rose
Garden.


A crony with no relevant experience was installed as head of FEMA.
Mitigation budgets for New Orleans were slashed even though it was
known to be one of the top three risks in the country. FEMA was
deliberately downsized as part of the Bush administration's
conservative agenda to reduce the role of government. After DHS was
created, FEMA's preparation and planning functions were taken away.


Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a hurricane the
size of Katrina would hit this year, but the slow federal response when
it did happen was no accident. It was the result of four years of
deliberate Republican policy and budget choices that favor ideology and
partisan loyalty at the expense of operational competence. It's the Bush
administration in a nutshell.
__________________________________________________ ____

I've spent many a night there, many a weekend there, and all my leave there
when I was stationed at Keesler AFB, Biloxi, MS. in the late 60s. No city
has attracted me more since. I like Atlanta, but my wife wouldn't move
there. I love Savanah, and it's still a favorite, but no place has touched
my heart like New Orleans. ****, if Mike Rivers, Scott Dorsey and I had a
chance to do a job in New Orleans we'd be all over it like white on rice.
And we'd just barely be able to get up to do the job the next day, but we'd
do it.

There's a reason they called it "The Big Easy". No, it wasn't because
blacks could get music jobs there, but that was part of it. It wasn't
because life somehow moves smoother there, perhaps at a slower click of the
clock. It wasn't even because nine times out of ten you'd meet new people
worth meeting every single time you went out. It's somewhat a combination
of them all and something else. I can't even say what. I just know that
losing New Orleans is like losing the 5th vertebrae of my back and I feel
like my head isn't screwed on right. I know, without major effort there
will never be another town like it, and I don't say City because New Orleans
is a town of people that make New Orleans what it is.

Without the people, who cares?

With the people, it doesn't matter if we have to sleep in tents.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"J_West" wrote in message
oups.com...
A moment of silence for the greatest music city in the world.


"Do You Know What it Means to Miss New Orleans"

Do you know what it means to miss new orleans
And miss it each night and day
I know I'm not wrong... this feeling's gettin' stronger
The longer, I stay away
Miss them moss covered vines...the tall sugar pines
Where mockin' birds used to sing
And I'd like to see that lazy mississippi...hurryin' into spring

The moonlight on the bayou.......a creole tune
that fills the air
I dream... about magnolias in bloom......and I'm wishin' I was
there

Do you know what it means to miss new orleans
When that's where you left your heart
And there's one thing more...i miss the one I care for
More than I miss new orleans

The moonlight on the bayou.......a creole tune.... that fills the air
I dream... about magnolias in bloom......and I'm wishin' I was
there

Do you know what it means to miss new orleans
When that's where you left your heart
And there's one thing more...i miss the one I care for
More.....more than I miss.......new orleans

"Les Cargill" wrote in message



Dunno from the Gulf, but old hand petro dewds I've known
won't allow that the sandstone formations that usually
contain oil change in size t'all when it gets pumped out.

Apparently, that's not how it works.

http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ozsv...Subsidence.htm

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

snip

As for boiling water, what would you
use to heat it up?

The city has been dry and sunny for days since the
hurrcane - plenty of dry wood around above the water in
the form of houses.
All of this presumes that the people

Beautiful, Arny. Build a fire on the roof of a frame
house to boil water! Very, very smart.

So Harry, you've never seen or heard of anybody run a
barbarcue on a wood deck without burning down the wood deck?

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message


As for boiling water, what would you
use to heat it up?

The city has been dry and sunny for days since the
hurrcane - plenty of dry wood around above the water in
the form of houses.

You really are a classic boy scout ****wit clot Arny !

Since you can't keep a civil tongue Graham, end of
discussion.

Pooh Bear wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear"
wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Jebabical" wrote in message


Um, perhaps you need to study the facts. 10's of
thousands of people were directed to the superdome and
the convention center. Could they at least have
brought these people water? How hard would it be?

Fact is, the city should have stockpiled enough water
at the Superdome.

Whilst the city is being evacuated ?

Before.

That would require forward planning.

That's what leaders do, planning.

Apparently the US's top leader wasn't interested !

One that accepted
using the Superdome as a refuge. I'll bet there wouldbe
ppl criticising such a plan.

A refuge is supposed to be pre-stocked with food and water.

Were the old nuclear shelters so stocked in Cold War days ? I bet they
weren't !

You lose. We used an old fallout shelter in my high school as deep
storage for old scenery. Boxes of old biscuits and canned water, all
slowly rusting away. Also things like Geiger counters, air filters, and
other wonderful old junk. Then they discovered asbestos pipe insulation
in there. In the panic of removing the asbestos, they also removed
everything else.
I suspect that a lot of them were not that well stocked. All that
stuff cost money, and budgets, as always, were tight. My town was
about five miles away from an air force base, so I suspect that they
put a bit higher priority on stocking the shelter. In theory, my town's
high school had a large portion of the main building that could be
turned into shelter by stacking sandbags or piling dirt up against the
windows on the side that wasn't half buried in a hillside.
The feds spent billions of dollars on civil defense things during the
50s. Much of the money was in the supplies for the shelters. Building
a building such that it could be a fallout shelter was only a small
increase
in cost. But they recognized that stocking them would be a harder
thing for a town to spend money on. So they bought large amounts
of CD food, water, and other supplies, and sold them to municipalities
at low cost for shelters.


--Dale

Jebabical wrote:

Kind of hard to put any of these plans into motion when you are stuck on
a rooftop with water just below you. Or worse, in a tree.

Yeah, but blame the citizens, their situation is all their fault. Right.

If you stop putting words in my mouth, I'll stop thinking you
are a ****wit.

--Dale

Dale Farmer wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear"
wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Jebabical" wrote in message


Um, perhaps you need to study the facts. 10's of
thousands of people were directed to the superdome and
the convention center. Could they at least have
brought these people water? How hard would it be?

Fact is, the city should have stockpiled enough water
at the Superdome.

Whilst the city is being evacuated ?

Before.

That would require forward planning.

That's what leaders do, planning.

Apparently the US's top leader wasn't interested !

One that accepted
using the Superdome as a refuge. I'll bet there wouldbe
ppl criticising such a plan.

A refuge is supposed to be pre-stocked with food and water.

Were the old nuclear shelters so stocked in Cold War days ? I bet they
weren't !

You lose. We used an old fallout shelter in my high school as deep
storage for old scenery. Boxes of old biscuits and canned water, all
slowly rusting away. Also things like Geiger counters, air filters, and
other wonderful old junk. Then they discovered asbestos pipe insulation
in there. In the panic of removing the asbestos, they also removed
everything else.
I suspect that a lot of them were not that well stocked. All that
stuff cost money, and budgets, as always, were tight. My town was
about five miles away from an air force base, so I suspect that they
put a bit higher priority on stocking the shelter. In theory, my town's
high school had a large portion of the main building that could be
turned into shelter by stacking sandbags or piling dirt up against the
windows on the side that wasn't half buried in a hillside.
The feds spent billions of dollars on civil defense things during the
50s. Much of the money was in the supplies for the shelters. Building
a building such that it could be a fallout shelter was only a small
increase
in cost. But they recognized that stocking them would be a harder
thing for a town to spend money on. So they bought large amounts
of CD food, water, and other supplies, and sold them to municipalities
at low cost for shelters.

Interesting.

Of course the big issue with stocking shelters is that that it all has shelf
life and needs to be periodically replaced.

I'll bet the associated cost is the first one to get struck out of the budget
when tax cuts are demanded.

Graham

Dale Farmer wrote:

If you stop putting words in my mouth, I'll stop thinking you
are a ****wit.


Like I would care what you think? Puleeze.

Peter Larsen wrote:

Timo Haanpää wrote:

http://www.turunsanomat.fi/verkkolehti/?ts=
1,4:3:0:0,4:3:1:1:2005-09-04,4:324708,1:0:0:0:0:

See the second picture from the top. That picture made me feel sick. It
seems Bush never fails to find a photo op, no matter what.

ARD or ZDF (german) reported - as I understood what I watched
half-heartedly while doing something else - how a corps recovery with
dogs was arranged to go on in a known empty building so as to constitute
good background images for TV shots of The President. It is all getting
ever more unbelievable and unreal.

This regime floats its boat on fakeness. And a people enamored with
virtual reality haven't time or minds for the real thing, baby.

--
ha

"SSJVCmag" wrote in message ...
On 9/2/05 7:01 AM, in article
, "Mike Rivers"
wrote:


David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

Has anyone seen signs of Richard Webb this week ??

No. I've been wondering about him, and I thought he lived in or very
close to the French Quarter. With him being blind and his wife being
disabled, they probably needed some help to move quickly. On the other
hand, he's an active ham radio operator and may have been spirited away
by that group to help with communication.

Wherever he is, I wish him well. I heard that Little Richard has been
found alive and wet.

I think it's an embarassment that the National Guard has to waste their
time on looters when there are people who need food and a place to
rest.


...what National Guard...?


The National Guard is in Iraq... they compose over 30% of our forces there.

If we owe a debt for service in this case (other than to the city services
who didn't stand much of a chance alone), it is to the US Coast Guard,
along with a few brave soles who simply drove in with their boats and
started bringing people out. The Coast Guard (our only remaining
on-shore line of defense), appeared to do mighty valiant work with their
limited resources.


DM

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message

Of course the big issue with stocking shelters is that
that it all has shelf life and needs to be periodically
replaced.

It all takes planning.

I'll bet the associated cost is the first one to get
struck out of the budget when tax cuts are demanded.

Graham, are you aware of the fact that cities in the US have
the right to tax themselves?

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message

Of course the big issue with stocking shelters is that
that it all has shelf life and needs to be periodically
replaced.

It all takes planning.

I'll bet the associated cost is the first one to get
struck out of the budget when tax cuts are demanded.

Graham, are you aware of the fact that cities in the US have
the right to tax themselves?

And I bet that's equally vulnerable to political pressure to keep them
low.

Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear"
wrote in message

Of course the big issue with stocking shelters is that
that it all has shelf life and needs to be periodically
replaced.

It all takes planning.

I'll bet the associated cost is the first one to get
struck out of the budget when tax cuts are demanded.

Graham, are you aware of the fact that cities in the US
have the right to tax themselves?

And I bet that's equally vulnerable to political pressure
to keep them low.

Right, its very easy to avoid political pressure by not
spending money on emergency preparedness.

Arny Krueger wrote:


Right, its very easy to avoid political pressure by not
spending money on emergency preparedness.



You do realize that every time you open your mouth you sound even dumber?

Better get back to your dbt's. At least their you can hide you
incompetence from those that don't know better.

Canada has sent over 2,000 relief workers specializing in health,
engineering and construction.
The citizens here have raised millions for the Red Cross. Amazingly it
took 3 days for the Bush administration to reply to Canada's offer.
??????.
I hope it helps the people afflicted.
Kevin