[nebulax]

I just uncovered a copy of Recording magazine from Oct 2001, and the
theme for this issue was mastering. They interviewed Doug Sax, and
when asked about what wire he used at the Mastering Lab, here's what
he said:

"We have done extensive listening to wire.We use Alpha
1775C. It is inexpensive, but very hard to work with since
it is solid core wire, and cannot be flexed much at all."

I looked up that wire at Alpha's site - http://www.alphawire.com/pages/194.cfm
.. Seems to be a pretty basic communications cable. Has anybody else
tried using this as an interconnect?

-Neb

[Scott Dorsey]

nebulax wrote:
I just uncovered a copy of Recording magazine from Oct 2001, and the
theme for this issue was mastering. They interviewed Doug Sax, and
when asked about what wire he used at the Mastering Lab, here's what
he said:

"We have done extensive listening to wire.We use Alpha
1775C. It is inexpensive, but very hard to work with since
it is solid core wire, and cannot be flexed much at all."

I looked up that wire at Alpha's site - http://www.alphawire.com/pages/194.cfm
. Seems to be a pretty basic communications cable. Has anybody else
tried using this as an interconnect?

Yes, I see it (and the Belden equivalent) in installed sound installations
all the time. It's cable.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
nebulax wrote:

Yes, I see it (and the Belden equivalent) in installed sound installations
all the time. It's cable.

BTW Scott, I think it was you who mentioned Gotham US's sale on GAC-2. I
used up a roll of it, but it was a tad salty at the then-current price, when
I shopped for a replacement.

Two 100 meter rolls are on their way to me for just a tad over $100 each
including shipping. If one can work with the red and blue outer colors - it
is quite a deal.

Thanks for the tip!

[[email protected]]

On Nov 1, 1:40 am, nebulax wrote:
I just uncovered a copy of Recording magazine from Oct 2001, and the
theme for this issue was mastering. They interviewed Doug Sax, and
when asked about what wire he used at the Mastering Lab, here's what
he said:

"We have done extensive listening to wire.We use Alpha
1775C. It is inexpensive, but very hard to work with since
it is solid core wire, and cannot be flexed much at all."

I looked up that wire at Alpha's site -http://www.alphawire.com/pages/194.cfm
. Seems to be a pretty basic communications cable. Has anybody else
tried using this as an interconnect?

-Neb

It's a common PVC copper wire, nothing special. I find the teflon
stuff to be clearer, like the belden 9182 which is a lan network cable
ideal for mic cables with it's 150 ohm impedance and 14 ohms per 1k
feet resistance and 8 pf per foot capacitance. Then the pure silver
Kimber stuff is in another league altogether.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[[email protected]]

On Nov 1, 4:14 pm, wrote:
Then the pure silver Kimber stuff is in another
league altogether.

Yup, just like Ponzi schemes are investments strategies
in another league altogether.

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message
oups.com...

On Nov 1, 4:14 pm, wrote:

Then the pure silver Kimber stuff is in another
league altogether.

Yup, just like Ponzi schemes are investments strategies
in another league altogether.

Yup, Williams is another promoter of esoteric ideas whose life would be
signficantly changed by reference to some of the hard facts of life.

[Mark]

On Nov 2, 9:31 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

On Nov 1, 4:14 pm, wrote:
Then the pure silver Kimber stuff is in another
league altogether.
Yup, just like Ponzi schemes are investments strategies
in another league altogether.

Yup, Williams is another promoter of esoteric ideas whose life would be
signficantly changed by reference to some of the hard facts of life.

yep its just crazy,

you may argue that you need a listening test for a mic or a speaker,,,

but a hunk of wire!!!!...

we can MEASURE any characteristic about a wire that you might care to
think of down to the 0.001 dB level out to 1000MHz and beyond.

Mark

[hank alrich]

Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

On Nov 1, 4:14 pm, wrote:

Then the pure silver Kimber stuff is in another
league altogether.

Yup, just like Ponzi schemes are investments strategies
in another league altogether.

Yup, Williams is another promoter of esoteric ideas whose life would be
signficantly changed by reference to some of the hard facts of life.

Having run his mod'd AKG C460's against the stock item, I call bull****
on you. I'm pretty sure the guy's test bench can hold its own against
yours.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Arny Krueger]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

On Nov 1, 4:14 pm, wrote:

Then the pure silver Kimber stuff is in another
league altogether.

Yup, just like Ponzi schemes are investments strategies
in another league altogether.

Yup, Williams is another promoter of esoteric ideas whose life would be
signficantly changed by reference to some of the hard facts of life.

Having run his mod'd AKG C460's against the stock item, I call bull****
on you.

Preference is based on historical knowlege, expectations and the immediate
experience. Since only 1/3 of those things actually relate directly to any
listening test that any of us might do, all listening tests are therefore
highly suspect unless they somehow deal with the other 2/3.

I'm pretty sure the guy's test bench can hold its own against yours.

Anybody can buy equipment, and the more intelligent ones can learn how to
properly use it. Thing is, I haven't seen just one post from Williams that
says that he actually has any relevant bench test results to share.

For example, if one of Williams' mods dropped a mic's A-weighted noise by 6
dB that would be very good news for all of us. Have I missed something? If
so, post the relevant URL in google's Usenet archive, or from a web site.

[Geoff]

hank alrich wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

On Nov 1, 4:14 pm, wrote:

Then the pure silver Kimber stuff is in another
league altogether.

Yup, just like Ponzi schemes are investments strategies
in another league altogether.

Yup, Williams is another promoter of esoteric ideas whose life would
be signficantly changed by reference to some of the hard facts of
life.

Having run his mod'd AKG C460's against the stock item, I call
bull**** on you. I'm pretty sure the guy's test bench can hold its
own against yours.

I can mod a C460 to sound way better than stock. And my test bench ain't
fancy.

geoff

[Geoff]

hank alrich wrote:


Having run his mod'd AKG C460's against the stock item, I call
bull**** on you.

Hell, the front end of a C460 has an LM301 in it, only a FET away from the
capsule ! I would be worried if a schoolkid couldn't improved that
significantly !

;-)

geoff

[Geoff]

wrote:


It's a common PVC copper wire, nothing special. I find the teflon
stuff to be clearer, like the belden 9182 which is a lan network cable
ideal for mic cables with it's 150 ohm impedance and 14 ohms per 1k
feet resistance and 8 pf per foot capacitance. Then the pure silver
Kimber stuff is in another league altogether.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Presumably you are referring soley to price, as opposed to any supposed
audio qualities ?

geoff

[Eeyore]

nebulax wrote:

I just uncovered a copy of Recording magazine from Oct 2001, and the
theme for this issue was mastering. They interviewed Doug Sax, and
when asked about what wire he used at the Mastering Lab, here's what
he said:

"We have done extensive listening to wire.

IDIOTS !

[Richard Crowley]

"Eeyore" wrote ...
nebulax wrote:
I just uncovered a copy of Recording magazine from Oct 2001, and the
theme for this issue was mastering. They interviewed Doug Sax, and
when asked about what wire he used at the Mastering Lab, here's what
he said:

"We have done extensive listening to wire.

IDIOTS !

Are you saying that you DO believe in magic wire?
Doug Sax appears to have confirmed that ordinary wire is just fine.

[Scott Dorsey]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote ...
nebulax wrote:
I just uncovered a copy of Recording magazine from Oct 2001, and the
theme for this issue was mastering. They interviewed Doug Sax, and
when asked about what wire he used at the Mastering Lab, here's what
he said:

"We have done extensive listening to wire.

IDIOTS !

Are you saying that you DO believe in magic wire?
Doug Sax appears to have confirmed that ordinary wire is just fine.

Well, I have heard differences between wires, but for the most part I am
hard pressed to say any of them were important or in any way improvements.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Eeyore]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Well, I have heard differences between wires,

That weren't speaker cables or high capacitance interconnects ?


but for the most part I am hard pressed to say any of them were important or
in any way improvements.

Details please.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Scott Dorsey wrote:

Well, I have heard differences between wires,

That weren't speaker cables or high capacitance interconnects ?


but for the most part I am hard pressed to say any of them were important
or
in any way improvements.

Details please.

I must admit that listening tests involving 50 feet runs of 24 gauge versus
12 gauge using some speakers with wild impedance curves were positive for
audible differences.

OTOH, comparisons of parallel runs of 8 feet of 3/8" steel rebar versus some
$300 a pair Monster Cable were negative for audible differences.

[Scott Dorsey]

Eeyore wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Well, I have heard differences between wires,

That weren't speaker cables or high capacitance interconnects ?

Well, in some cases they were very long microphone cables with ribbon
mike sources, where the cable reactance WAS becoming a problem.

But in other cases I have heard weirdness that I cannot explain. I can
tell the difference between an 18ga solid core and an 18ga stranded
speaker cable. Makes no sense at all, but it was there.

I can believe someone might hear a difference between a non-copper cable
like the silver cable, and I can believe it might be due to rectification
effects. I know that I can hear a difference between copper-clad-steel
RG-174 and similar copper cable. I am pretty sure that is due to junction
issues.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Eeyore]

Richard Crowley wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote ...
nebulax wrote:
I just uncovered a copy of Recording magazine from Oct 2001, and the
theme for this issue was mastering. They interviewed Doug Sax, and
when asked about what wire he used at the Mastering Lab, here's what
he said:

"We have done extensive listening to wire.

IDIOTS !

Are you saying that you DO believe in magic wire?

No, I'm suggesting that they must have been crazy to imagine that brand A copper
'sounded' any different to brand B copper or indeed any other brand of copper.


Doug Sax appears to have confirmed that ordinary wire is just fine.

Which didn't really require listening did it ? Unless you do indeed believe in
'magic' things that affect the sound that can't be measured. Aside from peoples
brains of course ! ;~)

Graham

[anahata]

Eeyore wrote:

No, I'm suggesting that they must have been crazy to imagine that brand A copper
'sounded' any different to brand B copper or indeed any other brand of copper.

As plausible interpretation of that quote was that the listening tests
confirmed that wire A did indeed sound very much the same as wire B so
they might as well pick the cheap one.

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

[Eeyore]

anahata wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

No, I'm suggesting that they must have been crazy to imagine that brand A copper
'sounded' any different to brand B copper or indeed any other brand of copper.

As plausible interpretation of that quote was that the listening tests
confirmed that wire A did indeed sound very much the same as wire B so
they might as well pick the cheap one.

Only 'very much the same' ? This is the trouble with listening tests. They can be
deceptive.

Graham

[Ty Ford]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:12:11 -0400, Richard Crowley wrote
(in article ):

"Eeyore" wrote ...
nebulax wrote:
I just uncovered a copy of Recording magazine from Oct 2001, and the
theme for this issue was mastering. They interviewed Doug Sax, and
when asked about what wire he used at the Mastering Lab, here's what
he said:

"We have done extensive listening to wire.

IDIOTS !

Are you saying that you DO believe in magic wire?
Doug Sax appears to have confirmed that ordinary wire is just fine.



oops! Snneezed and hit the send.

Guitar cords.

Check Louis out at http://www,gothamaudiousa.com

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Ty Ford]

oops! Snneezed and hit the send.

Guitar cords.

Check Louis out at http://www,gothamaudiousa.com

Regards,

Ty Ford


Weirder yet, I don't see the pre-sneeze post....

Anyway. We heard differences when comparing the house belden with Gotham
GAC-3 and EMT 2220 a few years ago. Subtle, but it was there.

Not so much in another studio a few days later. We figured it had to do with
the existing wiring and console/preamp I/Os.

Lou Frisch atGotham audio has some NOS GAC-3 that has a different jacket
color. I got some because it's good cable, and would help me find mine during
those events where more than one person's cable is being used. Louis also has
it at a good price...while it lasts.

www.gothamaudious.com

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Geoff]

Ty Ford wrote:
oops! Snneezed and hit the send.

Guitar cords.

Check Louis out at http://www,gothamaudiousa.com

Regards,

Ty Ford


Weirder yet, I don't see the pre-sneeze post....

Anyway. We heard differences when comparing the house belden with
Gotham GAC-3 and EMT 2220 a few years ago. Subtle, but it was there.

Maybe you moved your head, furniture, or listening position a few inches,
or yawned. That should totally swamp any cable differences.

geoff