[Walt]

wrote:

Another problem is power availability using the
USB cable as the power source. A sudden burst of sound will need
sudden immediate power avaiable to the DAC to create the analog audio
wave at proper power amplitude.

Power? You're mixing up the concepts of power and voltage.

A sound card does not need much "power" to reproduce a full scale
waveform. A full scale (2 volts) sine wave into a typical analog input
(10k ohms) requires less than half a milliwatt.

//Walt

[[email protected]]

On Oct 17, 8:52 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

Bottom line is that I don't see anything wrong with cleaning up the audio
mixer code in XP for Vista, but anybody who thinks that this is going to
lead to mind-blowing improvements is very poorly informed.

If you read what I actual said, the words "subtle" and "slight" were
prominent. Not the word "mind-blowing". Many solutions will work.
The quest for "high-end" becomes subjective, and may involve esoteric
concerns that will make little difference in the final sound. Note
above, I used that phrase "esoteric" concerns. Such they are, and
they have been argued ceaselessly for several years. They will not be
resolved with posts back and forth here.

There is substantial disagreement on all issues related to quality
sound production, and this thread reveals a good deal about that
disagreement.

The individual who started the thread asked about using a PC as an
audio source. Perhaps to summarize, it could be simply said:

Yes. Use your PC. It can sound very good. But how good it will
sound using a variety of components and/or alternate operating systems
you alone will be left to judge. Because no one else's opinion really
matters!

[Arny Krueger]

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:50:18 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:00:50 -0700, MRC01 wrote
(in article ):

As shipped from the manufacturer (standard OEM equipment), most PCs
have a cheap sound card that, while functional, does not produce audio
quality deserving of the name "high end".

In fact PC's haven't come with OEM sound cards for about a decade.

Also, unless precautions are taken in design and assembly (not
economical
in
your standard cheap sound card) most sound cards are noisy.

Absolutely false. Some of the quietest audio interfaces that exist are
packaged on PCI cards.

I didn't say that they didn't. I said CHEAP ones can be noisy

There are so many
clock signals floating around inside of a computer that it's hard to
keep
them out of the audio

Every product that does D/A conversion has this exposure. CD players have
just as many, if not more unshielded clock signals running around inside
them.

Of course it does/ But well designed ones use layout and shielding
practices
that keep these noise and distortion components to a minimum. Many cheap
ones
do not.

where they cause distortion,

Clock signal leakage would not cause distortion, but it could cause
noise.

IM distortion can be caused by clock signals leaking.

beat together causing noise in the audible pass band, etc.

Never obsevered to happen.

Maybe you should get out more.

It can be done, but such sound cards
tend to cost almost as much as another complete computer .

Complete and total error and misrepresentation of the true facts.

Right. The best sound cards from RME start at around $300 list.

You're cherry-picking to prove a point. Very fine audio interfaces (110 dB
dynamic range) can be obtained for a little more than $100.

A cheap computer can be had for around $300 too. Would you like to
explain where my
"total error and misrepresentation of the true facts" is in that
sentence?

The fact that one need not pay even half of $300 to get a CD-quality audio
interface. Right now, its more like 1/10th.

[Sonnova]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:09:33 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:50:18 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:00:50 -0700, MRC01 wrote
(in article ):

As shipped from the manufacturer (standard OEM equipment), most PCs
have a cheap sound card that, while functional, does not produce audio
quality deserving of the name "high end".

In fact PC's haven't come with OEM sound cards for about a decade.

Also, unless precautions are taken in design and assembly (not
economical
in
your standard cheap sound card) most sound cards are noisy.

Absolutely false. Some of the quietest audio interfaces that exist are
packaged on PCI cards.

I didn't say that they didn't. I said CHEAP ones can be noisy

There are so many
clock signals floating around inside of a computer that it's hard to
keep
them out of the audio

Every product that does D/A conversion has this exposure. CD players have
just as many, if not more unshielded clock signals running around inside
them.

Of course it does/ But well designed ones use layout and shielding
practices
that keep these noise and distortion components to a minimum. Many cheap
ones
do not.

where they cause distortion,

Clock signal leakage would not cause distortion, but it could cause
noise.

IM distortion can be caused by clock signals leaking.

beat together causing noise in the audible pass band, etc.

Never obsevered to happen.

Maybe you should get out more.

It can be done, but such sound cards
tend to cost almost as much as another complete computer .

Complete and total error and misrepresentation of the true facts.

Right. The best sound cards from RME start at around $300 list.

You're cherry-picking to prove a point. Very fine audio interfaces (110 dB
dynamic range) can be obtained for a little more than $100.

They sound pretty poor too, compared to the RME models. But I do agree that
they are, for the most part, more than acceptable for most people. In fact
Turtle Beach sound cards at under $50 are acceptable, they just don't have
the top common mode noise rejection specs nor the extremely clean sound of
the more expensive units, which I assumed was what we are talking about. If
we were talking about acceptable as opposed to excellent, then I'm sorry for
the misunderstanding.

A cheap computer can be had for around $300 too. Would you like to
explain where my
"total error and misrepresentation of the true facts" is in that
sentence?

The fact that one need not pay even half of $300 to get a CD-quality audio
interface. Right now, its more like 1/10th.

I'll agree to that if you agree that what I said was NOT a "total error and
misrepresentation of the true facts"

I'm not here to make enemies or to pontificate like a pompous know-it-all. If
I'm wrong about something, I think you will find that I have no problem
acknowledging the fact or apologizing for my error. I'm just here to discuss
whatever audio topics I find interesting. I hope the same can be said for the
rest of the posters on this NG.

[Rob Tweed]

Just a follow up - I just bought the E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 and I confirm
it sounds fabulous. Very flexible in terms of inputs and outputs too,
very simple installation on both my PC and Mac - a very nice piece of
kit IMHO.

You'll probably need 1/4 inch jack to phono adaptors or leads, though,
for most hi-fi set-ups.

.....next step is to replace my trusty Arcam A64 amp with just a power
amp...

On 16 Oct 2007 23:08:01 GMT, Rob Tweed wrote:

On 14 Oct 2007 21:57:48 GMT, wrote:

DAC (digital to audio converter)

You will need a "sound card", but internal sound cards -- even the
best internal sound cards -- are inferior to an excellent external USB
DAC. The DAC you want is the Trends UD-10 USB audio converter.
Search Google for the audiophile reviews of this little box. It sells
for about $120. It really is an extraordinary piece of hardware.
This box can be powered directly from the USB interface, but the sound
quality will be better if it is powered independently from a battery
source (I can confirm this, and most reviewers will mention this).


For a considerably larger amount of money there's the Benchmark DAC-1
USB which seems to always get the rave reviews. At nearly 900 UK
pounds I'm still saving!

At the cheap and chearful end there's the Edirol UA-1EX which I
currently use - not bad for the money but not earth-shattering either.

I'm considering the E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 right now (about 130 UK pounds),
particularly since i want to be able to make field recordings from
microphones as well - it's received some very good reviews, eg
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...-0404-usb.html and
sounds like it should work well for playback of ripped CDs from iTunes
etc. Not sure I like the 1/4 inch jacks for audio output though.

For really cheap but interesting gear check out Behringer. I've not
heard any of their equipment but they have an equivalent to the Edirol
UA-1EX: the UCA202 for 22 UK pounds - half the price of the Edirol.
They also have interesting power amps that have been mentioned in this
forum in the past: eg the A500 which costs 125 UK pounds. And their
speakers (their Truth range, eg: http://www.dv247.com/invt/25944/)?
Dunno - anyone listened to any?
---

Rob Tweed
Company: M/Gateway Developments Ltd
Registered in England: No 3220901
Registered Office: 58 Francis Road,Ashford, Kent TN23 7UR

Web-site: http://www.mgateway.com

Out of the Slipstream: Come to the conference!
http://www.outoftheslipstream.com

---

Rob Tweed
Company: M/Gateway Developments Ltd
Registered in England: No 3220901
Registered Office: 58 Francis Road,Ashford, Kent TN23 7UR

Web-site: http://www.mgateway.com