"ScotFraser" wrote in message

I don't think so. If you want to de-couple tracks enough to make a
difference, you need to nudge them many milliseconds.

Not at all. A nudge of a millesecond or less can result in a
substantial timbre shift.

Sure, massive comb filter effects. Is that the best way to deal with the
issue?

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:34:52 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Ty Ford" wrote in message

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 01:49:11 -0500,
wrote (in article
. com):

hello everyone,

let's say you 2-miked an instrument and recorded it as a stereo file
into the DAW. then when you listened back, you thought it sounded
out of phase.

would it make sense to simply de-couple the stereo file in a wave
editor and then nudge one of the left or right tracks a few samples
to get it in phase?


absolutely.

I don't think so. If you want to de-couple tracks enough to make a
difference, you need to nudge them many milliseconds. You want them to be
far enough apart so that they sound different from each other, but not far
enough to create an audible echo.


I do it in Pro Tools all the time. It's quite easy to zoom in and align the
wave forms. Correcting for mic distances or azimuth errors is a snap.

Smiles,

Ty Ford





-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

would it make sense to simply de-couple the stereo file in a wave
editor and then nudge one of the left or right tracks a few samples to
get it in phase?
BRBR


Yes. For that reason, I typically record stereo sources to dual mono tracks.
Once I've slipped the tracks until I'm happy I lock them as stereo.


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

would it make sense to simply de-couple the stereo file in a wave
editor and then nudge one of the left or right tracks a few samples to
get it in phase?

Yes, you can do that. Or alternatively you could try one of the
allpass filters available in a plugin form.

http://www.voxengo.com/pha979/

Mark
"In this business egos can be wonderful, but they also can be a curse."
Michael Wagener

Mark Plancke wrote:
would it make sense to simply de-couple the stereo file in a wave
editor and then nudge one of the left or right tracks a few samples
to
get it in phase?

Yes, you can do that. Or alternatively you could try one of the
allpass filters available in a plugin form.

http://www.voxengo.com/pha979/

Mark

Does this plug essentially do (for already recorded files) what the
Little Labs Phase tool does for tracks being recorded?

Thanks

wrote:

hello everyone,

let's say you 2-miked an instrument and recorded it as a stereo file
into the DAW. then when you listened back, you thought it sounded out
of phase.

would it make sense to simply de-couple the stereo file in a wave
editor and then nudge one of the left or right tracks a few samples to
get it in phase?

Hmmm, if I hear something odd like that I'd run the file through some
test software to see if there in fact are phase anomalies. Once identified

I'd have a better chance of adjusting things properly. Inverting the
polarity,
then (normalized) mix to mono can also give some clues...
However, the final check (as always) is by ear.


Later...

Ron Capik
--

wrote:

let's say you 2-miked an instrument and recorded it as a
stereo file into the DAW. then when you listened back,
you thought it sounded out of phase.

Why should it? - what possible cause is it that you have in mind?

Also: You ask about delay, not about phase. Phase unlinearity is about
different delay time in different frequency ranges, which is why it is
compensated - if relevant, it was relevant for analog tape recording,
but hardly ever done, and it was relevant for example for the Sony PCM
F1, in which context I have heard it cause amazing improvement - with a
circuit called an all pass filter.

would it make sense to simply de-couple the stereo file
in a wave editor and then nudge one of the left or right
tracks a few samples to get it in phase?

Allow me to label that an "advanced stereo modification to be used with
great caution by highly skilled operators". It is possible to slightly
alter the "midline axis" of the sound from a valid stereo mic setup by
doing what you suggest, but that is a very different concept.

I have done it twice: with a chamber music recording of a piano trio
that placed themselves somewhat different from what was assumed in the
mic placement and with a mandolin and guitar ensemble that was
asymmetrically positioned on a bar scene to focus their sound in the
direction of the majority of the audience.

The indication for doing was with both recordings a perceived inbalance
that could not be compensated with a simple level change. This was not
about something that sounded "partially out of phase".

The proper thing to do is generally to position the mic pair correctly,
delaying one channel relative to the other is a potential cause of more
problems than it solves and mono compatibility is certainly a major
worry to consider.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

AEA makes an XY scope for observing phase called the Winkie Blinkie.
Has anyone here used one of those? If so, how well did it work?
Thanks

In article .com,
Haolemon wrote:

AEA makes an XY scope for observing phase called the Winkie Blinkie.
Has anyone here used one of those? If so, how well did it work?

I tried it and didn't like it. The resolution isn't as high as a real
CRT. It'll fit in a bag, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Is there software that would do this? I presume that there are scope
applications, but I've never used a real one and have always been told
that the learning curve is steep. The simplicity of a dedicated device
like the Winkie Blinkie is appealing for that reason.

In article .com,
"Haolemon" wrote:

Is there software that would do this? I presume that there are scope
applications, but I've never used a real one and have always been told
that the learning curve is steep. The simplicity of a dedicated device
like the Winkie Blinkie is appealing for that reason.


I'll be releasing an AudioUnit (OSX only, sorry PC guys) that does just
this in the next couple of weeks. It's already written, but I need to
polish it up a bit and get a web page running before I "release" it.
It's OpenGL accelerated and thus very low on CPU -- easy to stick on
your master bus and glance over at while mixing without worrying about
it effecting track count. If you want to try it out with the
understanding it's a prerelease, send me an email and I'll send you a
link.

Screenshot at:
http://goldbarterholdings.com/todd/pscope.jpg

Haven't decided pricing yet. What would people pay for a simple thing
like this? $15 asking too much?

-Todd

how about just inverting the track.

Bob

wrote in message
ups.com...
hello everyone,

let's say you 2-miked an instrument and recorded it as a stereo file
into the DAW. then when you listened back, you thought it sounded out
of phase.

would it make sense to simply de-couple the stereo file in a wave
editor and then nudge one of the left or right tracks a few samples to
get it in phase?

how about just inverting the track.

Bob

wrote in message
oups.com...
hello everyone,

let's say you 2-miked an instrument and recorded it as a stereo file
into the DAW. then when you listened back, you thought it sounded out
of phase.

would it make sense to simply de-couple the stereo file in a wave
editor and then nudge one of the left or right tracks a few samples to
get it in phase?



Inverting the track will only work if there is a polarity problem.

The OP was asking about a phase problem. His Idea of nudging by a few samples
may work.

When recording a guitar with two microphones, I can tell which mic is closer
by looking at the waveform. If the sound is what I want, i wouldn't mess with
trying to align them.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty