"DeserTBoB" wrote in message
...

Electronics grade solder (60/40) uses rosin flux, which is water
soluable. The flux is there to deoxidize the joint while the solder
is in a plastic state. After some use, it will start to cake on the
tip and will start to burn into a black/brown crust, which isn't heat
conductive. Eventually, you'll have trouble heating the joint and
will wind up making "cold" joints.

MIL-spec soldering required distilled water, as the calcuim and
chlorimines in tap water can also contaminate a joint, but for
everyday electronic stuff, it's fine. Just swipe the tip through the
wet sponge every time and the moisture will clean off the rosin flux
form the tip. Then, "tin" the tip with just a little solder to give
you heat conductivity. Placce the tip on the mechanically sound joint
(presuming the joint has been cleaned already with a "solder sucker",
solder wick or an orange stick) and heat. When the JOINT is up to
melting temperature of the solder, then flow enough solder to cover
the joint...done.

Rules: NEVER use acid core flux. NEVER use 50/50 or 40/60 (radiator
solder). Good idea: Have a tin of rosin flux handy and a little tin
of "Re-Tip"...keep that tip nice and tinned and prevent tip corrosion.

What he said. I wipe the iron on the damp sponge before every soldering
operation, and afterwards dab a tiny bit of solder on the end so that it
goes back into the holder with at least a thin film of solder. At the end of
the session, I wipe it on the sponge one last time, then flow a good-sized
hunk of solder onto the tip and turn it off.

Peace,
Paul

DeserTBoB wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:21:01 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

The difference in price between 60/40 and 63/37 is not great. There's no excuse
for not using the latter. snip

The problem with using 63/37 on a hand soldered joint is that it is
not easy to work with on some joints, due to its change from solid to
liquid without a transitory plastic state. However, eutectic solder
is prefered for wave soldering and the like, and when applicable,
generally turns out a better joint than does 60/40. However, if
someone is skilled at soldering and knows how to properly clean and
heat a joint, there should be no functional difference.

Yes, but when you're cramped up in the bottom of a rack, or hanging off
the side of an antenna tower, being able to solder without having the
work tightly secured is a real plus. The thing about 63/37 is that, in
spite of the poorer flow, you don't have to hold things perfectly steady
to avoid a cold joint.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article ,
says...
Scott Dorsey wrote:

S O'Neill wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The key to making good connections is to keep the iron as clean as possible,
keep the work as clean as possible, and use eutectic solder.

I had been build electronic stuff for years in high school, and I had
NEVER seen eutectic solder; I *had* seen 60-40 and 50-50 and even 70-30.
When I took properties of materials as a 1st year engineering student,
I asked the prof why they didn't make eutectic solder, it seemed like a
no-brainer. His reply was that there was probably a mechanical reason,
perhaps to make a more rigid connection.

A lot of people still prefer 60/40 solder because it flows much more easily
than 63/37. 60/40 has an easier time holding onto a surface. Also, of
course, if you are doing rework and you mix two kinds of solder, you are
going to get something weird with unknown characteristics.

So when was 63-47 first marketed? I'm guessing it was long before 1968
and we were both just clueless. I was a kid, he was an ME, so we both
had an excuse.

I don't know. I know that in the late sixties it was being used in military
work. But for the most part, I didn't see it outside of the military until
rather recently.
--scott

Hmmmm.

You haven't seen the recent upcoming lead free legislation obviously ?


Graham


During electronics training we were told 60-40 was easier to manufacture
than 63-37 eutectic. I worked electronics for 30+ years and used both
60-40 and 63-37. I believe 63-37 had a slightly lower melting point
(361 deg F), (60-40 368 deg F). I found the flow nearly the same, flow
seemed more to do with the flux. Eutectic solder has no plastic state,
it goes from liquid to solid with no between soft plastic state as it
cools. The advantage is less chance of causing a disturbed solder joint
since you don't have to hold the joint steady as long while it cools
through the plastic state.
--
I.Care
Address fake
until the SPAM goes away

So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
while using the soldering station?

Yes.

Al.

Joe Sensor wrote:

Speaking of which.. I once grabbed the wrong end.

Tried it. Do not do that.

Must have been 20 some
years ago. Probably high or something.

Not me, it was just a small mains powered soldering iron with a lead
that was rigid enough to cause it to turn 180 degrees on the chair it
was lying on.

I never did THAT again.

7-9-13 ...


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Joe Sensor wrote:


I never did THAT again.

7-9-13 ...

Wow, that was a while back.

Glenn D.

In article . com writes:

During electronics training we were told 60-40 was easier to manufacture
than 63-37 eutectic.

I don't know that it's any easier to manufacture, but it's certainly
cheaper. Tin is (or at least was) considerably more expensive than
lead. The hard part is drilling those little holes down the middle and
pouring in the flux. Does anyone know what a solder-making machine
looks like?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1105393219k@trad...

In article . com
writes:

During electronics training we were told 60-40 was easier to manufacture
than 63-37 eutectic.

I don't know that it's any easier to manufacture, but it's certainly
cheaper. Tin is (or at least was) considerably more expensive than
lead. The hard part is drilling those little holes down the middle and
pouring in the flux. Does anyone know what a solder-making machine
looks like?

I can tell you how a machine that makes flux-cored welding wire operates.
The steel alloy wire starts as a relatively robust metal strap. Through
successive drawing operations it is made much longer and much thinner. In
the final stage it is folded upon itself longitudinally while immersed in
flux. The flux is trapped in the center. The fold is controlled so that
the join is very tight, and the result is a closed tube full of flux. Cored
solder is likely made with a similar process.

Steve King

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

Yes, but when you're cramped up in the bottom of a rack, or hanging off
the side of an antenna tower, being able to solder without having the
work tightly secured is a real plus. The thing about 63/37 is that, in
spite of the poorer flow, you don't have to hold things perfectly steady
to avoid a cold joint.

That sounds like just the thing for soldering the shield to those
pain-in-the-ass Neutrik TRS plugs where there's no way to make a mechanical
connection. I'm going to have to finally getting around to trying the
stuff.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore, Maryland

Thanks for all your replies. I got it. Wet the sponge. Plus more than
I ever wanted or will need to know about soldering.

Odds and ends:

Yes my daughter is smarter than me. Getting straight A's a Swarthmore
majoring in astrophysics.

Can I play better jazz guitar than Pooh Bear? I have no idea.
Something else I do not know.

And it was a stupid question, because it seemed trivial, as opposed to
a dumb question, which merely demonstrates ignorance so massive that
the questioner should have kept his mouth shut. OTOH, given the number
of responses, it was not trivial, therefore . . . uh, forget it, my
head is starting to hurt.


On 10 Jan 2005 21:46:47 GMT, Al wrote:

So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
while using the soldering station?

Yes.

Al.

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 17:34:06 -0600, "Steve King"
wrote:


I can tell you how a machine that makes flux-cored welding wire operates.
The steel alloy wire starts as a relatively robust metal strap. Through
successive drawing operations it is made much longer and much thinner. In
the final stage it is folded upon itself longitudinally while immersed in
flux. The flux is trapped in the center. The fold is controlled so that
the join is very tight, and the result is a closed tube full of flux. Cored
solder is likely made with a similar process. snip

Not necissarily. Remember the good "Multicore" solder from England?
The best, and it indeed had five lines of rosin flux in the wire.

dB

"DeserTBoB"

Not necissarily. Remember the good "Multicore" solder from England?
The best, and it indeed had five lines of rosin flux in the wire.



** Been using their "Savbit" 5 core solder for 35 years at least - got a
reel on the bench right now.

Says " Made in Malaysia " on the label !!





.............. Phil

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...

My occasionally used and 30 years old Weller is still A OK.

Which begs the question: "Which vintage soldering iron for under $200 makes
the best-sounding connections?"

Neil Henderson

Willie K.Yee, M.D. wrote:

Yes my daughter is smarter than me. Getting straight A's a Swarthmore
majoring in astrophysics.

She's probably smarter than anyone who posts here, too. g

--
ha
"If you get one noxious piece of **** device in your signal chain,
you will get a bad result and there is no magic cure that will undo
this." Scott Dorsey

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." wrote in message
...
I have a temp controlled soldering station. On the top of it is a
metal tray with a small dry sponge on it. I thought it was asbestos or
something to wipe the excess solder off the tip.

I was going to show my daughter how to solder, and she got out the
kit, took out the sponge and wet it with water. Now that never
occurred to me (stuff like this is why we have females in our lives).

So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
while using the soldering station?

Yes.

My forst thought was that leaving
that damp thing there is eventually going to rust the tray, but what
do I know?

The tray is plated.

geoff

"Joe Sensor" wrote in message
...
jtougas wrote:

But I like that sizzling sound... though I imagine Carla's sizzle
wouldn't've been nearly as...ummm... well, I was gonna say
entertaining, but I imagine, the cruel ******* I am, I'd've died
laughing.

Speaking of which.. I once grabbed the wrong end. Must have been 20 some
years ago. Probably high or something.

I never did THAT again.

Sommething I've never done again was to hold the iron tip to my lip, "to
see if it was on" .

geoff

8
\\
||
o

"Iain Fraser" wrote in message
...
Dropped the iron one time and it landed between my shoe and my leg. Made
me dance - and I don't dance.

I did that with a clothes iron, while wearing shorts.

geoff

"Joe Sensor" wrote in message
...
jtougas wrote:

But I like that sizzling sound... though I imagine Carla's sizzle
wouldn't've been nearly as...ummm... well, I was gonna say
entertaining, but I imagine, the cruel ******* I am, I'd've died
laughing.

Speaking of which.. I once grabbed the wrong end. Must have been 20 some
years ago. Probably high or something.

If you drop your soldering iron, don't ry to catch it.

geoff

PS Do you yanks know that in most of the english-speaking world ( incl.
non-native-english-speaking) that solder is pronounce SOL-DER. As in no
silent 'r'. Your pronounciation sound to us more like a shirt-lifter !

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
)

It doesn't clean the tip anywhere near as well, though. And it very
quickly
wears off the iron plating on the tip. You'll find tips last a lot longer
with the sponge. Same goes for the copper mesh stuff.
--scott

That tip-cleaner sticky-goo-in-sandstone-like stuff really polishes up one's
tip. Smells nice too. Must be chenically wicked (as in evil).

geoff

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Electronics grade solder (60/40)...

If you can find it (it's not difficult), you should purchase 63/37 solder.
That
ratio is "eutectic" -- it has the lowest melting point of any tin/lead
alloy,
and does not have a plastic state -- it goes directly from solid to
liquid. Both
these properties reduce the chance of a "cold" or otherwise defective
joint.

I think you mean "dry". Cold solder is a lead-bearing paste in a tube that
dries like glue
..

The difference in price between 60/40 and 63/37 is not great.

6 ?

There's no excuse
for not using the latter.
Laziness ?


geoff

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
..

The water-washable flux sold as "organic flux" smells nasty,

- a bit like soap powder ?

Oh sorry, not orgasmic flux....

geoff

In article writes:

** Been using their "Savbit" 5 core solder for 35 years at least - got a
reel on the bench right now.

Says " Made in Malaysia " on the label !!

As I recall, the Savabit solder contained a little copper. Does it say
that on the label too?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

these properties reduce the chance of a "cold" or otherwise defective
joint.

I think you mean "dry". Cold solder is a lead-bearing paste in a tube that
dries like glue

"Cold solder joint" is a common term over here. I think I've heard
"dry solder joint" but only by furriners.

We have "liquid solder" which is like glue and looks like solder
(probably contains some metal dust for some reason) and "paste solder"
which is actually powdered solder alloy in a fulx paste. There's also
"soldering paste" which is a paste flux. None of which is appropriate
for electronic work.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On 2005-01-10, Willie K.Yee, M.D. wrote:

So, my stupid question is: Is one _supposed_ to dampen the sponge
while using the soldering station?

If you leave the sponge dry, you'll just melt it. The tray might rust
eventually, but I didn't see that in a cable plant I worked in where the
Weller stations had been in 24 hour service for ten years or more.

On 2005-01-11, Geoff Wood wrote:

I think you mean "dry". Cold solder is a lead-bearing paste in a tube that
dries like glue

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.

Mike Rivers wrote:


As I recall, the Savabit solder contained a little copper. Does it say
that on the label too?



That makes a lot of sense, that would allow less of the tip's copper to
dissolve in the solder.

james of tucson wrote:

On 2005-01-11, Geoff Wood wrote:


I think you mean "dry". Cold solder is a lead-bearing paste in a tube that
dries like glue


A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.


not on my planet. perhaps even the opposite.

In article y.com,
james of tucson wrote:
On 2005-01-11, Geoff Wood wrote:

I think you mean "dry". Cold solder is a lead-bearing paste in a tube that
dries like glue

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.

No, quite the opposite. A cold joint has crystallized and is often open
and not shorted. Sometimes it's actually a diode.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I think you mean "dry". Cold solder is a lead-bearing paste in a tube
that
dries like glue

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.

In my world a short is caused by a solder bridge. Short, open...it's all the
same. ;-)

-John O

james of tucson wrote:

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.

In the universe where I live it means open circuit.

--
ha

In article ,
(hank alrich) wrote:

james of tucson wrote:

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.

In the universe where I live it means open circuit.

--
ha

Or worse, an intermittent connection that's nearly impossible to find.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

hank alrich wrote:
james of tucson wrote:


A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.


In the universe where I live it means open circuit.

Gotta agree with Hank. How could a cold solder joint cause a short circuit?

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article y.com,
james of tucson wrote:
On 2005-01-11, Geoff Wood wrote:

I think you mean "dry". Cold solder is a lead-bearing paste in a tube
that
dries like glue

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.

No, quite the opposite. A cold joint has crystallized and is often open
and not shorted. Sometimes it's actually a diode.

We call that a "dry joint" . Not tro be confused with any other sort of
joint in a non-wet scenario.

geoff

Perhaps a "cold solder joint" means a joint where there is a sphere of
solder on the lead, but none that reached the copper pad because the pad
never reached a high enough temperature for the solder to flow into it
(and the flux did not clean the pad enough for proper flow either).
Don't make me dig out one of my Heathkit manuals...

John Hardy

Don't make me dig out one of my Heathkit manuals...

And yes, 75% of all kits REALLY WERE fixed by resoldering. :-) Sometimes I
wondered if the builder was dropping blobs of molten solder onto the boards
from two feet above.

-John O

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:32:22 GMT, james of tucson
wrote:

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.

A "cold joint" is a bad joint, surely? Quite the opposite of a short
circuit.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

In article y.com writes:

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood to mean a short
circuit.

Maybe it will in Tucson, but not around here.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood
to mean a short circuit.

I've been soldering for almost 50 years, and that is absolutely not the meaning
of a cold joint.

A cold joint is "dry," lumpy, and dull. The soldered has not flowed smoothly.

William Sommerwerck wrote:


I've been soldering for almost 50 years, and that is absolutely not the meaning
of a cold joint.


Yes, I think James has been enlightened.

james of tucson wrote:

On 2005-01-11, Geoff Wood wrote:

I think you mean "dry". Cold solder is a lead-bearing paste
in a tube that dries like glue

A "cold solder joint" will be universally understood
to mean a short circuit.

No, obviously not.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************