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#42
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Yes, but they used two-prong outlets. I believe using a three-prong
outlet and NOT actually grounding it violates the electrical code. In article lH%4d.359927$8_6.120251@attbi_s04, says... I hardly think it is illegal. Probably 50 % of homes built before WW2 probably have an ungrounded outlet in every room.... "Jay Levitt" wrote in message ... In article , says... I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. That's not only unsafe but I believe illegal.. you should double-check the grounds on all your three-prong outlets, and if there are any you aren't fixing, replace them with two-prong outlets. -- Jay Levitt | Wellesley, MA | Hi! Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going? http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket? |
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#43
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Yes, but they used two-prong outlets. I believe using a three-prong
outlet and NOT actually grounding it violates the electrical code. In article lH%4d.359927$8_6.120251@attbi_s04, says... I hardly think it is illegal. Probably 50 % of homes built before WW2 probably have an ungrounded outlet in every room.... "Jay Levitt" wrote in message ... In article , says... I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. That's not only unsafe but I believe illegal.. you should double-check the grounds on all your three-prong outlets, and if there are any you aren't fixing, replace them with two-prong outlets. -- Jay Levitt | Wellesley, MA | Hi! Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going? http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket? |
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#44
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Snowdog wrote:
It appears to be a rigid copper wire wrapped in a mesh shielding..kind of like a potato sack mesh...i don't think it's metal. There are only two wires..no ground wire. I do understand your point about grounding from the panel. I guess i will have to rerun a new wire. I forget the NEMA designation for that, but it's basically the predicessor to Romex. Putting a three-prong outlet on the end of that stuff is a big, big code violation. You may want to make sure the rest of the house isn't the same way. if it is, you can legally keep three-prong outlets by using a GFI on each circuit. (The GFIs will trip if there is substantial leakage, like there is with that bass amp. That doesn't help you with the bass amp, though.) But you do not want to have three-prong ungrounded outlets, if only because it probably invalidates your insurance. (I am assuming it _is_ a house... that stuff was never code for commercial construction....) --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#45
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Snowdog wrote:
It appears to be a rigid copper wire wrapped in a mesh shielding..kind of like a potato sack mesh...i don't think it's metal. There are only two wires..no ground wire. I do understand your point about grounding from the panel. I guess i will have to rerun a new wire. I forget the NEMA designation for that, but it's basically the predicessor to Romex. Putting a three-prong outlet on the end of that stuff is a big, big code violation. You may want to make sure the rest of the house isn't the same way. if it is, you can legally keep three-prong outlets by using a GFI on each circuit. (The GFIs will trip if there is substantial leakage, like there is with that bass amp. That doesn't help you with the bass amp, though.) But you do not want to have three-prong ungrounded outlets, if only because it probably invalidates your insurance. (I am assuming it _is_ a house... that stuff was never code for commercial construction....) --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#46
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Snowdog wrote:
It appears to be a rigid copper wire wrapped in a mesh shielding..kind of like a potato sack mesh...i don't think it's metal. There are only two wires..no ground wire. I do understand your point about grounding from the panel. I guess i will have to rerun a new wire. I forget the NEMA designation for that, but it's basically the predicessor to Romex. Putting a three-prong outlet on the end of that stuff is a big, big code violation. You may want to make sure the rest of the house isn't the same way. if it is, you can legally keep three-prong outlets by using a GFI on each circuit. (The GFIs will trip if there is substantial leakage, like there is with that bass amp. That doesn't help you with the bass amp, though.) But you do not want to have three-prong ungrounded outlets, if only because it probably invalidates your insurance. (I am assuming it _is_ a house... that stuff was never code for commercial construction....) --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#47
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Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? Graham |
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#48
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Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? Graham |
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#49
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Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? Graham |
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#50
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George wrote:
From what I understand the two prong outlets were grounded through the armored jacket or conduit so if a ground path is in place through one of thes methods then simply bond the green screw of the three hole edison connector to the metal job box I think the OP said the wire was two conductor enclosed in a mesh that did not appear to be metal. So, apparently there really is no separate ground. - Logan |
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#51
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George wrote:
From what I understand the two prong outlets were grounded through the armored jacket or conduit so if a ground path is in place through one of thes methods then simply bond the green screw of the three hole edison connector to the metal job box I think the OP said the wire was two conductor enclosed in a mesh that did not appear to be metal. So, apparently there really is no separate ground. - Logan |
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#52
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George wrote:
From what I understand the two prong outlets were grounded through the armored jacket or conduit so if a ground path is in place through one of thes methods then simply bond the green screw of the three hole edison connector to the metal job box I think the OP said the wire was two conductor enclosed in a mesh that did not appear to be metal. So, apparently there really is no separate ground. - Logan |
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#53
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Snowdog wrote: There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? On older houses (say, 1960s or before, or maybe it's 1950s or before), yes they are common, but not on newer construction. Keep in mind that, in the US, virtually everything is "new construction" by UK standards. We do have the occasional house that is over 100 years old, but it's really quite rare, and if I had to guess, I'd say 50% or even 75% of EVERYTHING in the US was built in the 1970s or later. - Logan |
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#54
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Snowdog wrote: There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? On older houses (say, 1960s or before, or maybe it's 1950s or before), yes they are common, but not on newer construction. Keep in mind that, in the US, virtually everything is "new construction" by UK standards. We do have the occasional house that is over 100 years old, but it's really quite rare, and if I had to guess, I'd say 50% or even 75% of EVERYTHING in the US was built in the 1970s or later. - Logan |
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#55
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Snowdog wrote: There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? On older houses (say, 1960s or before, or maybe it's 1950s or before), yes they are common, but not on newer construction. Keep in mind that, in the US, virtually everything is "new construction" by UK standards. We do have the occasional house that is over 100 years old, but it's really quite rare, and if I had to guess, I'd say 50% or even 75% of EVERYTHING in the US was built in the 1970s or later. - Logan |
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#56
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"Snowdog" Thanks to everyone for your helpful comments. Quick recap..bass player gets shocked on the lips by vocal mic while wearing his bass. I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. What are my options to add a ground? ** Step 1. Buy an extension lead and plug it into an earthed outlet. Step 2. Buy a multi outlet power adaptor - if possible one with a GFI included. Step 3. Have all the instrument amps plug into it. Step 4. Plug the adaptor board into the extension lead. ............. Phil |
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#57
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"Snowdog" Thanks to everyone for your helpful comments. Quick recap..bass player gets shocked on the lips by vocal mic while wearing his bass. I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. What are my options to add a ground? ** Step 1. Buy an extension lead and plug it into an earthed outlet. Step 2. Buy a multi outlet power adaptor - if possible one with a GFI included. Step 3. Have all the instrument amps plug into it. Step 4. Plug the adaptor board into the extension lead. ............. Phil |
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#58
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"Snowdog" Thanks to everyone for your helpful comments. Quick recap..bass player gets shocked on the lips by vocal mic while wearing his bass. I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. What are my options to add a ground? ** Step 1. Buy an extension lead and plug it into an earthed outlet. Step 2. Buy a multi outlet power adaptor - if possible one with a GFI included. Step 3. Have all the instrument amps plug into it. Step 4. Plug the adaptor board into the extension lead. ............. Phil |
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#59
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On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:17:04 -0400, Stu Venable wrote
(in article et): "George" wrote in message ... In article lH%4d.359927$8_6.120251@attbi_s04, "Tony Briggs" wrote: I hardly think it is illegal. Probably 50 % of homes built before WW2 probably have an ungrounded outlet in every room.... I don't think you can sell a house in my local with outdated wiring George I bought my house about 6 years ago (in Southern Calif.), nearly all of my outlets were two-prong, with no ground. Only in the kitchen and bathrooms did I have grounds, and they were GFCIs with the ground wires looped around to "fool" them from shutting off. Stu I have a mixture of 2 and 3 here. We bought this 1954 rancher 7 years ago. Also be aware that the wiring may have been incorrectly installed. Just cause it's in the walls, don't mean it's right. As mentioned earlier, be careful, YOU COULD DIE FROM THIS! Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#60
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On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:17:04 -0400, Stu Venable wrote
(in article et): "George" wrote in message ... In article lH%4d.359927$8_6.120251@attbi_s04, "Tony Briggs" wrote: I hardly think it is illegal. Probably 50 % of homes built before WW2 probably have an ungrounded outlet in every room.... I don't think you can sell a house in my local with outdated wiring George I bought my house about 6 years ago (in Southern Calif.), nearly all of my outlets were two-prong, with no ground. Only in the kitchen and bathrooms did I have grounds, and they were GFCIs with the ground wires looped around to "fool" them from shutting off. Stu I have a mixture of 2 and 3 here. We bought this 1954 rancher 7 years ago. Also be aware that the wiring may have been incorrectly installed. Just cause it's in the walls, don't mean it's right. As mentioned earlier, be careful, YOU COULD DIE FROM THIS! Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#61
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On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:56:01 -0400, Pooh Bear wrote
(in article ): Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? Graham Graham, As I mentioned earlier, my 1956 house is a mix of 2 and 3. If something buzzed in a two, we just replugged it 180 degrees to solve the problem. There are also polarized 2-prong plugs (one blade is larger than the other) that can only be plugged in ONE WAY. If the wiring scheme is proper, the ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. (Unfortunately, sometimes they get flipped) Maybe someone else can pipe in here. I'm at the edge of my correct info border on this specific point. Regards, Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#62
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On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:56:01 -0400, Pooh Bear wrote
(in article ): Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? Graham Graham, As I mentioned earlier, my 1956 house is a mix of 2 and 3. If something buzzed in a two, we just replugged it 180 degrees to solve the problem. There are also polarized 2-prong plugs (one blade is larger than the other) that can only be plugged in ONE WAY. If the wiring scheme is proper, the ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. (Unfortunately, sometimes they get flipped) Maybe someone else can pipe in here. I'm at the edge of my correct info border on this specific point. Regards, Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
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#63
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"Ty Ford" = Typhoid Pooh Bear Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? As I mentioned earlier, my 1956 house is a mix of 2 and 3. If something buzzed in a two, we just replugged it 180 degrees to solve the problem. ** Only possible if you are still alive to do it. There are also polarized 2-prong plugs (one blade is larger than the other) that can only be plugged in ONE WAY. If the wiring scheme is proper, the ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. ** Only one of those wires carries the AC current while the other does NOT. (Unfortunately, sometimes they get flipped) ** Errr - that is why an independent third wire is a good idea. Maybe someone else can pipe in here. I'm at the edge of my correct info border on this specific point. ** ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Typhoid is over the border's edge of sanity with all his putrid posts. .............. Phil |
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#64
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"Ty Ford" = Typhoid Pooh Bear Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? As I mentioned earlier, my 1956 house is a mix of 2 and 3. If something buzzed in a two, we just replugged it 180 degrees to solve the problem. ** Only possible if you are still alive to do it. There are also polarized 2-prong plugs (one blade is larger than the other) that can only be plugged in ONE WAY. If the wiring scheme is proper, the ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. ** Only one of those wires carries the AC current while the other does NOT. (Unfortunately, sometimes they get flipped) ** Errr - that is why an independent third wire is a good idea. Maybe someone else can pipe in here. I'm at the edge of my correct info border on this specific point. ** ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Typhoid is over the border's edge of sanity with all his putrid posts. .............. Phil |
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#65
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If the wiring scheme is proper, the
ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. BRBR A small clarification: the ground & neutral are separate wires, but are tied together at the service panel. Scott Fraser |
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#66
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If the wiring scheme is proper, the
ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. BRBR A small clarification: the ground & neutral are separate wires, but are tied together at the service panel. Scott Fraser |
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#67
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Logan Shaw wrote:
George wrote: From what I understand the two prong outlets were grounded through the armored jacket or conduit so if a ground path is in place through one of thes methods then simply bond the green screw of the three hole edison connector to the metal job box I think the OP said the wire was two conductor enclosed in a mesh that did not appear to be metal. So, apparently there really is no separate ground. Right. I have wiring like that in my house. My electrician calls it "knob and tube" wiring. That's because it consists (inside the walls) of pairs of wires several inches apart that are supported by knobs and protected by tubes when passing through studs. It has a cloth-like layer of insulation. Where it passes into the electrical box, there is usually an additional layer of insulation, presumably for mechanical protection against abrasion. AFAIK this was the standard form of wiring until sometime in the late 50's or early 60's when Romex took over. Although it is no longer up to code, it is perfectly safe if properly maintained. Its only drawback is the lack of a ground line. That's why I have added modern circuits where I use electronics. |
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#68
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Logan Shaw wrote:
George wrote: From what I understand the two prong outlets were grounded through the armored jacket or conduit so if a ground path is in place through one of thes methods then simply bond the green screw of the three hole edison connector to the metal job box I think the OP said the wire was two conductor enclosed in a mesh that did not appear to be metal. So, apparently there really is no separate ground. Right. I have wiring like that in my house. My electrician calls it "knob and tube" wiring. That's because it consists (inside the walls) of pairs of wires several inches apart that are supported by knobs and protected by tubes when passing through studs. It has a cloth-like layer of insulation. Where it passes into the electrical box, there is usually an additional layer of insulation, presumably for mechanical protection against abrasion. AFAIK this was the standard form of wiring until sometime in the late 50's or early 60's when Romex took over. Although it is no longer up to code, it is perfectly safe if properly maintained. Its only drawback is the lack of a ground line. That's why I have added modern circuits where I use electronics. |
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#69
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#71
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? No, not even a little bit. That's the sort of thing that insurance companies like to point at when they decide not to pay on a claim, too. Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? They are very common in older construction, but it is VERY illegal to put a three-prong outlet up without a ground connected. Older construction with two-prong outlets is common, though. The one cheat around this is that if a GFI is used, a three-prong outlet can be installed because the GFI protects against ground leakage by shutting the circuit off if it detects any imbalance. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#72
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? No, not even a little bit. That's the sort of thing that insurance companies like to point at when they decide not to pay on a claim, too. Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? They are very common in older construction, but it is VERY illegal to put a three-prong outlet up without a ground connected. Older construction with two-prong outlets is common, though. The one cheat around this is that if a GFI is used, a three-prong outlet can be installed because the GFI protects against ground leakage by shutting the circuit off if it detects any imbalance. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#73
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Logan Shaw wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote: Snowdog wrote: There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? On older houses (say, 1960s or before, or maybe it's 1950s or before), yes they are common, but not on newer construction. But they ought to be 2 pin sockets - right ? I can remember that the new build UK house my family moved into in 1956 had grounded 3 pole sockets ( but still the older 5/15Amp 'round pin' type - still used in India - and most likely elsewhere too - before we went to rectangular pin with internal fusing ). The round pin sockets date back to the 30s or 40s at a guess. Keep in mind that, in the US, virtually everything is "new construction" by UK standards. We do have the occasional house that is over 100 years old, but it's really quite rare, and if I had to guess, I'd say 50% or even 75% of EVERYTHING in the US was built in the 1970s or later. My own house is 112 yrs old. Obviously it had no electricity to begin with. The evidence suggest that it was originally wired maybe in the 30s or 40s and rewired probably in the 60s . Both types of cable ( remnants of the old rubber insulated type and the new PVC insulated ) are 3 core. Graham |
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#74
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Logan Shaw wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote: Snowdog wrote: There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? On older houses (say, 1960s or before, or maybe it's 1950s or before), yes they are common, but not on newer construction. But they ought to be 2 pin sockets - right ? I can remember that the new build UK house my family moved into in 1956 had grounded 3 pole sockets ( but still the older 5/15Amp 'round pin' type - still used in India - and most likely elsewhere too - before we went to rectangular pin with internal fusing ). The round pin sockets date back to the 30s or 40s at a guess. Keep in mind that, in the US, virtually everything is "new construction" by UK standards. We do have the occasional house that is over 100 years old, but it's really quite rare, and if I had to guess, I'd say 50% or even 75% of EVERYTHING in the US was built in the 1970s or later. My own house is 112 yrs old. Obviously it had no electricity to begin with. The evidence suggest that it was originally wired maybe in the 30s or 40s and rewired probably in the 60s . Both types of cable ( remnants of the old rubber insulated type and the new PVC insulated ) are 3 core. Graham |
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#75
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Scott Dorsey wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? No, not even a little bit. That's the sort of thing that insurance companies like to point at when they decide not to pay on a claim, too. I'll bet they do ! Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? They are very common in older construction, but it is VERY illegal to put a three-prong outlet up without a ground connected. I suspected as much. So the ungrounded 3 pin outlets are most likely installed by a previous owner with no sense ? Older construction with two-prong outlets is common, though. The one cheat around this is that if a GFI is used, a three-prong outlet can be installed because the GFI protects against ground leakage by shutting the circuit off if it detects any imbalance. As in a GFI at the 'panel' ( commonly referred to as the 'fusebox' in the UK although it normally contains a mixture of MCBs and RCDs these days ). Mine actually only has good old fashioned fuses but it's an older house ;-) MCB = miniature circuit breaker ( fuse replacement ) RCD = residual current device aka. ELCB ( earth leakage current breaker ) or GFI ( US terminology ground fault interruptor ). Graham |
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#76
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Scott Dorsey wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: Snowdog wrote: I pulled the three prong outlet from the wall that the bass player plugs into...and sure enough, there are only two wires connected to the plug. There is no grounding wire. I do see a ground terminal on the outlet to add a ground wire. House was built in '56. Is that legal ? No, not even a little bit. That's the sort of thing that insurance companies like to point at when they decide not to pay on a claim, too. I'll bet they do ! Certainly wouldn't be in the UK. Are ungrounded outlets common in the US ? They are very common in older construction, but it is VERY illegal to put a three-prong outlet up without a ground connected. I suspected as much. So the ungrounded 3 pin outlets are most likely installed by a previous owner with no sense ? Older construction with two-prong outlets is common, though. The one cheat around this is that if a GFI is used, a three-prong outlet can be installed because the GFI protects against ground leakage by shutting the circuit off if it detects any imbalance. As in a GFI at the 'panel' ( commonly referred to as the 'fusebox' in the UK although it normally contains a mixture of MCBs and RCDs these days ). Mine actually only has good old fashioned fuses but it's an older house ;-) MCB = miniature circuit breaker ( fuse replacement ) RCD = residual current device aka. ELCB ( earth leakage current breaker ) or GFI ( US terminology ground fault interruptor ). Graham |
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#77
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ScotFraser wrote: If the wiring scheme is proper, the ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. BRBR A small clarification: the ground & neutral are separate wires, but are tied together at the service panel. In the UK, the ground conductor is only connected to neutral at the relevant 'sub-station' - the local transformer supplying the district. Grounds are commonly additionally tied or 'strapped' to copper pipes carrying the water supply. Called multiple protective ground earthing IIRC. Graham |
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#78
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ScotFraser wrote: If the wiring scheme is proper, the ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. BRBR A small clarification: the ground & neutral are separate wires, but are tied together at the service panel. In the UK, the ground conductor is only connected to neutral at the relevant 'sub-station' - the local transformer supplying the district. Grounds are commonly additionally tied or 'strapped' to copper pipes carrying the water supply. Called multiple protective ground earthing IIRC. Graham |
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#79
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"Mike Rivers" Phil Allison As I mentioned earlier, my 1956 house is a mix of 2 and 3. If something buzzed in a two, we just replugged it 180 degrees to solve the problem. ** Only possible if you are still alive to do it. And only dangerous if one side of the power line is tied to something in the box that you can touch. ** Just what a "polarity cap" in fact does. There are also polarized 2-prong plugs (one blade is larger than the other) that can only be plugged in ONE WAY. If the wiring scheme is proper, the ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. ** Only one of those wires carries the AC current while the other does NOT. Phil, Phyl, Chlorophyll, must we go through this again? If there's something plugged into the outlet that's turned on and working, both wires carry the AC current. It's a circuit. Have a beer, relax, and come back when you have a clearer head. ** Learn to read you stinking, Parrott moron . The two wires are the "ground" and "neutral" conductors. (Unfortunately, sometimes they get flipped) ** Errr - that is why an independent third wire is a good idea. Not in this country. ** **** off you brain dead Parrott. The safety ground (unless they have a different "third wire" in your country) is there to assure that if a short circuit develops between the hot side of the line and the case, it will find a return path through a lower impedance than someone who touches it who's grounded. ** That is WHY it must be a third, independent conductor - not one of the two wires carrying AC current that MIGHT get flipped. The neutral wire CANNOT be used as a safety ground, even though it is at ground potential at the wall outlet. ............. Phil |
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"Mike Rivers" Phil Allison As I mentioned earlier, my 1956 house is a mix of 2 and 3. If something buzzed in a two, we just replugged it 180 degrees to solve the problem. ** Only possible if you are still alive to do it. And only dangerous if one side of the power line is tied to something in the box that you can touch. ** Just what a "polarity cap" in fact does. There are also polarized 2-prong plugs (one blade is larger than the other) that can only be plugged in ONE WAY. If the wiring scheme is proper, the ground and neutral are the same all the way back to the panel. ** Only one of those wires carries the AC current while the other does NOT. Phil, Phyl, Chlorophyll, must we go through this again? If there's something plugged into the outlet that's turned on and working, both wires carry the AC current. It's a circuit. Have a beer, relax, and come back when you have a clearer head. ** Learn to read you stinking, Parrott moron . The two wires are the "ground" and "neutral" conductors. (Unfortunately, sometimes they get flipped) ** Errr - that is why an independent third wire is a good idea. Not in this country. ** **** off you brain dead Parrott. The safety ground (unless they have a different "third wire" in your country) is there to assure that if a short circuit develops between the hot side of the line and the case, it will find a return path through a lower impedance than someone who touches it who's grounded. ** That is WHY it must be a third, independent conductor - not one of the two wires carrying AC current that MIGHT get flipped. The neutral wire CANNOT be used as a safety ground, even though it is at ground potential at the wall outlet. ............. Phil |
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