On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:36:15 -0400, Bob Cain wrote
(in article ):



killermike wrote:


Why don't you post these things into one of the politics groups?

Scott Fraser summarized the reason we do it here in an
earlier post.

Mike, if you are tired of hearing this just tell me to
bugger off, but you, among us, are the only one who knows
the ropes for setting up a new usenet group from the
exellent job you did with the h-s group. You would be a
real hero to a lot of people if you could turn that
expertise toward the establishment of a rec.audio.pro.saloon
group where these discussions could be partitioned but would
likely have the same participants.


Bob


Jesus Mike, do it so the rest of us can have some peace around here. You'll
be ****ing cannonized.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:36:15 -0400, Bob Cain wrote
(in article ):



killermike wrote:


Why don't you post these things into one of the politics groups?

Scott Fraser summarized the reason we do it here in an
earlier post.

Mike, if you are tired of hearing this just tell me to
bugger off, but you, among us, are the only one who knows
the ropes for setting up a new usenet group from the
exellent job you did with the h-s group. You would be a
real hero to a lot of people if you could turn that
expertise toward the establishment of a rec.audio.pro.saloon
group where these discussions could be partitioned but would
likely have the same participants.


Bob


Jesus Mike, do it so the rest of us can have some peace around here. You'll
be ****ing cannonized.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Blind Joni wrote:

It's curious how the OT political threads rile so many to anger and name
calling but
the real concerns of audio seem to have so much less effect.

Try questioning or trying to quantify Doppler mixing. I was
astonished to find how politicized a technical matter could
be. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Blind Joni wrote:

It's curious how the OT political threads rile so many to anger and name
calling but
the real concerns of audio seem to have so much less effect.

Try questioning or trying to quantify Doppler mixing. I was
astonished to find how politicized a technical matter could
be. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"Blind Joni" wrote in message
...
But there are other people's opinions to consider, and some people seem
really taken aback not so much by OT posts, but political OT posts. OTOH,
I
agree with you in that these things are incredibly important for people
to
discuss, and I feel that there are facts which need to be brought out,
about
current events and hsitorical events, that are best reiterated as often
as
possible in every possible media.

It's curious how the OT political threads rile so many to anger and name
calling but
the real concerns of audio seem to have so much less effect.


Well, I don't want to say something that sounds like a hallmark card, but
politics can be divisive, where art can bring people together. Even if you
are arguing about Audio, you know at some point that you're arguing with one
of the few others who cares at all.

jb

"Blind Joni" wrote in message
...
But there are other people's opinions to consider, and some people seem
really taken aback not so much by OT posts, but political OT posts. OTOH,
I
agree with you in that these things are incredibly important for people
to
discuss, and I feel that there are facts which need to be brought out,
about
current events and hsitorical events, that are best reiterated as often
as
possible in every possible media.

It's curious how the OT political threads rile so many to anger and name
calling but
the real concerns of audio seem to have so much less effect.


Well, I don't want to say something that sounds like a hallmark card, but
politics can be divisive, where art can bring people together. Even if you
are arguing about Audio, you know at some point that you're arguing with one
of the few others who cares at all.

jb

Blind Joni wrote:

It's like bumper stickers..the only one gaining is the guy selling the
stickers.

Really? I thought the undecideds kept a running count on the bumper
stickers they saw and voted for the guy with the most..

Blind Joni wrote:

It's like bumper stickers..the only one gaining is the guy selling the
stickers.

Really? I thought the undecideds kept a running count on the bumper
stickers they saw and voted for the guy with the most..

In article ,
(John) wrote:

From: George

I absolutly belongs here, and in the food newsgroups and in the car
newsgroups, it belongs anywhere one can find anyone to tell it to

What is wrong with you? The people who share your viewpoint don't need
convincing. Those who disagree, well, you're only serving to **** them off.
Does fanatical, belligerant behaviour really accomplish anything? Take a
lesson from your own writings.

-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com

I have often reconsidered what i believed as true, and changed my
position. I used to be catholic, now I am not
even years of ignorant head in the sand indoctrination can become
enlightened
It does work
and If GW doesn't scare the jimminies out of you , you just arn't paying
attention
George

In article ,
(John) wrote:

From: George

I absolutly belongs here, and in the food newsgroups and in the car
newsgroups, it belongs anywhere one can find anyone to tell it to

What is wrong with you? The people who share your viewpoint don't need
convincing. Those who disagree, well, you're only serving to **** them off.
Does fanatical, belligerant behaviour really accomplish anything? Take a
lesson from your own writings.

-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com

I have often reconsidered what i believed as true, and changed my
position. I used to be catholic, now I am not
even years of ignorant head in the sand indoctrination can become
enlightened
It does work
and If GW doesn't scare the jimminies out of you , you just arn't paying
attention
George

Pete Dimsman wrote:

Really? I thought the undecideds kept a running count on the bumper
stickers they saw and voted for the guy with the most..


As Larry David said, there are no undecided voters. These people are
looking for attention.

Pete Dimsman wrote:

Really? I thought the undecideds kept a running count on the bumper
stickers they saw and voted for the guy with the most..


As Larry David said, there are no undecided voters. These people are
looking for attention.

Blind Joni wrote:

There must be a way for an intelligent guy like yourself to find a way to stop
this behavior. If these events really are affecting you so personally there may
be something else going on.



Why *wouldn't* these events affect someone so personally? Every knows
the numbers. I don't need to reapeat them.

Perhaps we just got a reminder this past week with the show they put on
in the Garden.

When I was a kid, I saw the Circus in the Garden. All that was missing
this past week was the other two rings.

What is wrong with these people?

Blind Joni wrote:

There must be a way for an intelligent guy like yourself to find a way to stop
this behavior. If these events really are affecting you so personally there may
be something else going on.



Why *wouldn't* these events affect someone so personally? Every knows
the numbers. I don't need to reapeat them.

Perhaps we just got a reminder this past week with the show they put on
in the Garden.

When I was a kid, I saw the Circus in the Garden. All that was missing
this past week was the other two rings.

What is wrong with these people?

On Sep 4, 2004, Roger W. Norman commented:

Hey, why don't you tell me why it doesn't apply to audio or to life as a
business in the first place. Tell me how what I'm talking about doesn't
effect your business, or others.
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------

Roger, I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but this is a PRO AUDIO
DISCUSSION GROUP.

It'd be very helpful if you'd precede your non-audio threads with "OT," for
OFF-TOPIC.

Please.


--MFW
[remove the extra M above for email]

On Sep 4, 2004, Roger W. Norman commented:

Hey, why don't you tell me why it doesn't apply to audio or to life as a
business in the first place. Tell me how what I'm talking about doesn't
effect your business, or others.
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------

Roger, I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but this is a PRO AUDIO
DISCUSSION GROUP.

It'd be very helpful if you'd precede your non-audio threads with "OT," for
OFF-TOPIC.

Please.


--MFW
[remove the extra M above for email]

John wrote:

What is wrong with you? The people who share your viewpoint don't need
convincing. Those who disagree, well, you're only serving to **** them off.

I hope against hope that there is a signifigantly large
third group that is a whole lot less vocal and who are less
convinced in these matters than those of us who choose to
speak out. It is those people that I attempt to reach when
I engage in discussion of the issues or put others so
engaged in a critical light.

There is really a whole lot at stake now and the charter of
a group written in _much_ different times does not negate
the fact that there are now 84 nuclear suitcase bombs
missing from the inventory of the former USSR.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

John wrote:

What is wrong with you? The people who share your viewpoint don't need
convincing. Those who disagree, well, you're only serving to **** them off.

I hope against hope that there is a signifigantly large
third group that is a whole lot less vocal and who are less
convinced in these matters than those of us who choose to
speak out. It is those people that I attempt to reach when
I engage in discussion of the issues or put others so
engaged in a critical light.

There is really a whole lot at stake now and the charter of
a group written in _much_ different times does not negate
the fact that there are now 84 nuclear suitcase bombs
missing from the inventory of the former USSR.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

From: George

and If GW doesn't scare the jimminies out of you , you just arn't paying
attention

George, he does. Scares me ****less. But that's not my point. I have friends
in real life that I talk to about these things... The absolute least you could
do, I feel, is to mark your posts with the "OT" preface. I could beg and plead
with you not to keep bringing this group down, but I can see you're not
interested in that. Can we at least compromise here? Although I feel I'm
basically admitting defeat rather than reaching a happy medium.

-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com

From: George

and If GW doesn't scare the jimminies out of you , you just arn't paying
attention

George, he does. Scares me ****less. But that's not my point. I have friends
in real life that I talk to about these things... The absolute least you could
do, I feel, is to mark your posts with the "OT" preface. I could beg and plead
with you not to keep bringing this group down, but I can see you're not
interested in that. Can we at least compromise here? Although I feel I'm
basically admitting defeat rather than reaching a happy medium.

-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com

Ty Ford wrote:

And while you're at it George, pitch in with Bob so he stops complaining
about not having what it takes to start your own newsgroup.

What was that about backhands? That comes real close to
robbing me of the motivation to try and do _anything_ about
a situation you don't like.

It's clear that we just don't like each other and what seems
to make the other tick (which need not be enumerated.) I
doubt it would be the first time for either of is and it's
quite ok. Ya just can't like or be liked by everybody if
you are a real person. I think it would be a really good
idea if we both stopped referring to each other when not
directly addressing the other.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Ty Ford wrote:

And while you're at it George, pitch in with Bob so he stops complaining
about not having what it takes to start your own newsgroup.

What was that about backhands? That comes real close to
robbing me of the motivation to try and do _anything_ about
a situation you don't like.

It's clear that we just don't like each other and what seems
to make the other tick (which need not be enumerated.) I
doubt it would be the first time for either of is and it's
quite ok. Ya just can't like or be liked by everybody if
you are a real person. I think it would be a really good
idea if we both stopped referring to each other when not
directly addressing the other.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Why *wouldn't* these events affect someone so personally? Every knows
the numbers. I don't need to reapeat them.


Well...let's see...something happens ..to none of us personally..no matter how
much we hate it....so we take it out on our families???
Healthy perspective??



What is wrong with these people?


What's wrong is that they don't share your opinion. I know a lot of people
don't share mine on a lot of important things to me..but I don't yell at my
mother because of it.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Why *wouldn't* these events affect someone so personally? Every knows
the numbers. I don't need to reapeat them.


Well...let's see...something happens ..to none of us personally..no matter how
much we hate it....so we take it out on our families???
Healthy perspective??



What is wrong with these people?


What's wrong is that they don't share your opinion. I know a lot of people
don't share mine on a lot of important things to me..but I don't yell at my
mother because of it.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Blind Joni wrote:


There must be a way for an intelligent guy like yourself to find a way to
stop this behavior. If these events really are affecting you so personally
there may be something else going on.

Yes , there must be something going on....

Like, maybe, having a concience? Or, (heaven forbid) loving his country &
his fellow man more than some abstract ideology? Roger, you've got to seek
professional help right away before you do something that might possibly
make the world a better place.

You know, if the Romans had an internet, Jesus would have probably been the
biggest OT poster of all time. Of course, they crucified him, so what does
that tell you?

Blind Joni wrote:


There must be a way for an intelligent guy like yourself to find a way to
stop this behavior. If these events really are affecting you so personally
there may be something else going on.

Yes , there must be something going on....

Like, maybe, having a concience? Or, (heaven forbid) loving his country &
his fellow man more than some abstract ideology? Roger, you've got to seek
professional help right away before you do something that might possibly
make the world a better place.

You know, if the Romans had an internet, Jesus would have probably been the
biggest OT poster of all time. Of course, they crucified him, so what does
that tell you?

There must be a way for an intelligent guy like yourself to find a way to
stop this behavior. If these events really are affecting you so personally
there may be something else going on.

Yes , there must be something going on....

Like, maybe, having a concience? Or, (heaven forbid) loving his country &
his fellow man more than some abstract ideology?

Roger said he was"taking it out on loved ones"..I don't know what that means.
If we are upset it is always from some kind of problem with our own
integrity..which I'm sure most will try to argue..give it some thought.
And if the terrorists loved their country and fellow man more than some
abstract ideology we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. I just read
some C.S Lewis about 'national repentance'...written about Britain in
WW2..basically saying how many find it easier to forgive an enemy than a
neighbor.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

There must be a way for an intelligent guy like yourself to find a way to
stop this behavior. If these events really are affecting you so personally
there may be something else going on.

Yes , there must be something going on....

Like, maybe, having a concience? Or, (heaven forbid) loving his country &
his fellow man more than some abstract ideology?

Roger said he was"taking it out on loved ones"..I don't know what that means.
If we are upset it is always from some kind of problem with our own
integrity..which I'm sure most will try to argue..give it some thought.
And if the terrorists loved their country and fellow man more than some
abstract ideology we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. I just read
some C.S Lewis about 'national repentance'...written about Britain in
WW2..basically saying how many find it easier to forgive an enemy than a
neighbor.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Try questioning or trying to quantify Doppler mixing. I was
astonished to find how politicized a technical matter could
be. :-)

I watched that one from the sidelines..didn't have time to keep up.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Try questioning or trying to quantify Doppler mixing. I was
astonished to find how politicized a technical matter could
be. :-)

I watched that one from the sidelines..didn't have time to keep up.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Blind Joni wrote:

Well...let's see...something happens ..to none of us personally..no matter how
much we hate it....so we take it out on our families???
Healthy perspective??


Do you know something about my family that I don't know?



What is wrong with these people?


What's wrong is that they don't share your opinion. I know a lot of people
don't share mine on a lot of important things to me..but I don't yell at my
mother because of it.


My mother passed away, so I'm still not following.

Of course everyone has their own opinion, and that's a natural and good thing.

What's wrong, is the travesty that these people (the ones in NY this
week), took the most horrible event of my lifetime in my hometown, and
have been exploiting it for the past three years.

I, for one, and I don't give a flying **** if I'm the only one, took
offense at the "bullhorn" speech that Bush gave. I saw it live on TV, or
as live as this administration would allow it to be.

Now, almost three years later, this is supposed to be a moment of
heroism and strength?

This guy needs to go, and January 20 is not a moment too soon.

Blind Joni wrote:

Well...let's see...something happens ..to none of us personally..no matter how
much we hate it....so we take it out on our families???
Healthy perspective??


Do you know something about my family that I don't know?



What is wrong with these people?


What's wrong is that they don't share your opinion. I know a lot of people
don't share mine on a lot of important things to me..but I don't yell at my
mother because of it.


My mother passed away, so I'm still not following.

Of course everyone has their own opinion, and that's a natural and good thing.

What's wrong, is the travesty that these people (the ones in NY this
week), took the most horrible event of my lifetime in my hometown, and
have been exploiting it for the past three years.

I, for one, and I don't give a flying **** if I'm the only one, took
offense at the "bullhorn" speech that Bush gave. I saw it live on TV, or
as live as this administration would allow it to be.

Now, almost three years later, this is supposed to be a moment of
heroism and strength?

This guy needs to go, and January 20 is not a moment too soon.

killermike wrote:

Roger W. Norman wrote:
Hey, why don't you tell me why it doesn't apply to audio or to life as a
business in the first place. Tell me how what I'm talking about doesn't
effect your business, or others.

I agree, this isn't anything to do with audio. These are world events
which affect the whole world and everyone in the world to some extent.
So are other things - environmentalism would just be one example.

These threads are nearly always American-centric.

True, but would you deny that the policies & actions of the President of
the USA have an effect on the rest of the world in this day & age?

Tell me, what would
you judge to have been the principle events this year in Norway?

Don't know. If You're in Norway & feel compelled, I, for one, am all ears.


Should
rec.audio.pro be used as a forum to discuss them? America is 5% of the
worlds population.

I suspect Americans make up way more than 5% of RAP
posters/readers/subscribers. And probably way more than 5% of audio
engineers & techs worldwide. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


Perhaps you should explicitly state exactly what you think RAP is for.
What is on topic, professional audio and 9/11 orientated politics?
Anything that interests you or anyone else?

Why don't you post these things into one of the politics groups? Why
have an hierarchy in Usenet if any group can be used to post threads on
any topic? I'm sure a lot of people come onto these groups to get away
from world events. I don't think that you could claim that these
political topics are not being raised in other forums and other mediums.

Sorry if I seem to getting at you but people not obeying the Usenet
hierarchy is a pet hate of mine.

I guess everybody is entitled to their own pet peeves. One of my biggest
ones is people who think they can control the ****ing internet. If you're
one of those anal retentive control freaks, why dont you start your own
moderated news group. Granted, RAP has a charter, but the people who
started RAP don't OWN any part of the internet. Not even the tiny little
bit of bandwidth that RAT occupies. So, untill we see rec.audio.ty, or
rec.audio.killermike, or rec.audio.will, Roger can post whatever the hell
he wants. and anybody that has a problem with that can bite his ass. And
if they're still hungry, they can bite mine too.

killermike wrote:

Roger W. Norman wrote:
Hey, why don't you tell me why it doesn't apply to audio or to life as a
business in the first place. Tell me how what I'm talking about doesn't
effect your business, or others.

I agree, this isn't anything to do with audio. These are world events
which affect the whole world and everyone in the world to some extent.
So are other things - environmentalism would just be one example.

These threads are nearly always American-centric.

True, but would you deny that the policies & actions of the President of
the USA have an effect on the rest of the world in this day & age?

Tell me, what would
you judge to have been the principle events this year in Norway?

Don't know. If You're in Norway & feel compelled, I, for one, am all ears.


Should
rec.audio.pro be used as a forum to discuss them? America is 5% of the
worlds population.

I suspect Americans make up way more than 5% of RAP
posters/readers/subscribers. And probably way more than 5% of audio
engineers & techs worldwide. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


Perhaps you should explicitly state exactly what you think RAP is for.
What is on topic, professional audio and 9/11 orientated politics?
Anything that interests you or anyone else?

Why don't you post these things into one of the politics groups? Why
have an hierarchy in Usenet if any group can be used to post threads on
any topic? I'm sure a lot of people come onto these groups to get away
from world events. I don't think that you could claim that these
political topics are not being raised in other forums and other mediums.

Sorry if I seem to getting at you but people not obeying the Usenet
hierarchy is a pet hate of mine.

I guess everybody is entitled to their own pet peeves. One of my biggest
ones is people who think they can control the ****ing internet. If you're
one of those anal retentive control freaks, why dont you start your own
moderated news group. Granted, RAP has a charter, but the people who
started RAP don't OWN any part of the internet. Not even the tiny little
bit of bandwidth that RAT occupies. So, untill we see rec.audio.ty, or
rec.audio.killermike, or rec.audio.will, Roger can post whatever the hell
he wants. and anybody that has a problem with that can bite his ass. And
if they're still hungry, they can bite mine too.

(John)



and If GW doesn't scare the jimminies out of you , you just arn't paying
attention

George, he does. Scares me ****less.

Come on John, don't be a "Girlie man"...

G


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

(John)



and If GW doesn't scare the jimminies out of you , you just arn't paying
attention

George, he does. Scares me ****less.

Come on John, don't be a "Girlie man"...

G


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Wayne wrote:

Still adding to my killfile, relunctantly.

Have at it. That's why they invented killfiles in the first place.

Wayne wrote:

Still adding to my killfile, relunctantly.

Have at it. That's why they invented killfiles in the first place.

ScotFraser wrote:


Once you guys get off topic, I cease to read what you submit. It's
boring, redundant, and takes up bandwidth. Still adding to my killfile,
relunctantly.

I probably read only 10 per cent of what's posted anymore. I'd prefer more
audio being discussed but I'm cool with people bringing out whatever's
gotten under their collar also. Just chill & participate in that which
interests you, ignore the rest. Your blood pressure doesn't need to get
worked up about any of this, it's only an internet newsgroup, nothing
more.

Yep. I probably read about 20% of NEW threads, but seldom follow any to
their conclusion any more. But that's mainly because the topic of audio
itself has gotten so broad. I'm more likely to ignore a "What's better:
Pro Tools, Nuendo, or Sonar" thread that an obviously marked OT thread
just because i don't really care very much about computers being uszed as
tape recorders (but that's just me). Hell, if a thread about U87s can end
up being about Stratocasters and nobody bothers to change the subject line
until a week later, it's hard to complain about ANYTHING being off topic.

ScotFraser wrote:


Once you guys get off topic, I cease to read what you submit. It's
boring, redundant, and takes up bandwidth. Still adding to my killfile,
relunctantly.

I probably read only 10 per cent of what's posted anymore. I'd prefer more
audio being discussed but I'm cool with people bringing out whatever's
gotten under their collar also. Just chill & participate in that which
interests you, ignore the rest. Your blood pressure doesn't need to get
worked up about any of this, it's only an internet newsgroup, nothing
more.

Yep. I probably read about 20% of NEW threads, but seldom follow any to
their conclusion any more. But that's mainly because the topic of audio
itself has gotten so broad. I'm more likely to ignore a "What's better:
Pro Tools, Nuendo, or Sonar" thread that an obviously marked OT thread
just because i don't really care very much about computers being uszed as
tape recorders (but that's just me). Hell, if a thread about U87s can end
up being about Stratocasters and nobody bothers to change the subject line
until a week later, it's hard to complain about ANYTHING being off topic.