[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:27:46 +1000, Trevor wrote:

On 1/07/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:
As I just said, THAT is a function of the BRAIN, *not* hearing
capabilities.

The "brain" and "hearing" are so closely related, I don't understand why you are trying to differentiate the brain from hearing...

The brain INTERPRETS the sensory input, and is very subjective in the
process. The two are quite distinct in their functions, even if they
cannot be separated in order to still work.

Trevor.

The brain literally creates sound. Sound does not exist anywhere but
in the brain. Outside there are certainly vibrations and movements,
but that thing we "hear" as a voice or a note is created by the brain
as a response to those stimuli.

d

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[Trevor]

On 2/07/2016 5:00 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:27:46 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 1/07/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:
As I just said, THAT is a function of the BRAIN, *not* hearing
capabilities.

The "brain" and "hearing" are so closely related, I don't understand why you are trying to differentiate the brain from hearing...

The brain INTERPRETS the sensory input, and is very subjective in the
process. The two are quite distinct in their functions, even if they
cannot be separated in order to still work.


The brain literally creates sound. Sound does not exist anywhere but
in the brain. Outside there are certainly vibrations and movements,
but that thing we "hear" as a voice or a note is created by the brain
as a response to those stimuli.

Sure, but how does that contradict anything I said though?

Trevor.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 19:15:45 +1000, Trevor wrote:

On 2/07/2016 5:00 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:27:46 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 1/07/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:
As I just said, THAT is a function of the BRAIN, *not* hearing
capabilities.

The "brain" and "hearing" are so closely related, I don't understand why you are trying to differentiate the brain from hearing...

The brain INTERPRETS the sensory input, and is very subjective in the
process. The two are quite distinct in their functions, even if they
cannot be separated in order to still work.


The brain literally creates sound. Sound does not exist anywhere but
in the brain. Outside there are certainly vibrations and movements,
but that thing we "hear" as a voice or a note is created by the brain
as a response to those stimuli.

Sure, but how does that contradict anything I said though?

Nope, I was sitting here a bit bored and just thought I'd throw it in
there.

d

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[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Trevor wrote:
On 2/07/2016 5:00 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:27:46 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 1/07/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:
As I just said, THAT is a function of the BRAIN, *not* hearing
capabilities.

The "brain" and "hearing" are so closely related, I don't understand why you are trying to differentiate the brain from hearing...

The brain INTERPRETS the sensory input, and is very subjective in the
process. The two are quite distinct in their functions, even if they
cannot be separated in order to still work.


The brain literally creates sound. Sound does not exist anywhere but
in the brain. Outside there are certainly vibrations and movements,
but that thing we "hear" as a voice or a note is created by the brain
as a response to those stimuli.

Sure, but how does that contradict anything I said though?

The thing is, the ear isn't just a simple transducer... it's not possible
to draw a sharp line anywhere.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Scott Dorsey wrote: ".. it's not possible
to draw a sharp line anywhere. "


Unless one has a 4B or higher pencil.

[Gray_Wolf]

On 7/2/2016 11:30 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 2/07/2016 5:00 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:27:46 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 1/07/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:
As I just said, THAT is a function of the BRAIN, *not* hearing
capabilities.

The "brain" and "hearing" are so closely related, I don't understand why you are trying to differentiate the brain from hearing...

The brain INTERPRETS the sensory input, and is very subjective in the
process. The two are quite distinct in their functions, even if they
cannot be separated in order to still work.


The brain literally creates sound. Sound does not exist anywhere but
in the brain. Outside there are certainly vibrations and movements,
but that thing we "hear" as a voice or a note is created by the brain
as a response to those stimuli.

Sure, but how does that contradict anything I said though?

The thing is, the ear isn't just a simple transducer... it's not possible
to draw a sharp line anywhere.
--scott

I wonder, at this point, are we nearing the quantum realm with its uncertainties

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 17:17:29 -0500, gray_wolf
wrote:

On 7/2/2016 11:30 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 2/07/2016 5:00 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:27:46 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 1/07/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:
As I just said, THAT is a function of the BRAIN, *not* hearing
capabilities.

The "brain" and "hearing" are so closely related, I don't understand why you are trying to differentiate the brain from hearing...

The brain INTERPRETS the sensory input, and is very subjective in the
process. The two are quite distinct in their functions, even if they
cannot be separated in order to still work.


The brain literally creates sound. Sound does not exist anywhere but
in the brain. Outside there are certainly vibrations and movements,
but that thing we "hear" as a voice or a note is created by the brain
as a response to those stimuli.

Sure, but how does that contradict anything I said though?

The thing is, the ear isn't just a simple transducer... it's not possible
to draw a sharp line anywhere.
--scott

I wonder, at this point, are we nearing the quantum realm with its uncertainties

Not even close. Sound is very much in the macro world.

d

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[Trevor]

On 3/07/2016 2:30 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 2/07/2016 5:00 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:27:46 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 1/07/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:
As I just said, THAT is a function of the BRAIN, *not* hearing
capabilities.

The "brain" and "hearing" are so closely related, I don't understand why you are trying to differentiate the brain from hearing...

The brain INTERPRETS the sensory input, and is very subjective in the
process. The two are quite distinct in their functions, even if they
cannot be separated in order to still work.


The brain literally creates sound. Sound does not exist anywhere but
in the brain. Outside there are certainly vibrations and movements,
but that thing we "hear" as a voice or a note is created by the brain
as a response to those stimuli.

Sure, but how does that contradict anything I said though?

The thing is, the ear isn't just a simple transducer... it's not possible
to draw a sharp line anywhere.


But the great thing for us is that the brain compensates for gross non
linearities in the auditory system, and even for external ones. A
particular favorite of mine has always been HiFi reviewers saying
speakers sound so much better after a "break in" period, not realising
that is mainly their own brain simply adjusting. :-)

Trevor.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

gray_wolf wrote:
On 7/2/2016 11:30 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor
wrote:
On 2/07/2016 5:00 PM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 13:27:46 +1000, Trevor wrote:
On 1/07/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:
As I just said, THAT is a function of the BRAIN, *not* hearing
capabilities.

The "brain" and "hearing" are so closely related, I don't
understand why you are trying to differentiate the brain from
hearing...

The brain INTERPRETS the sensory input, and is very subjective in the
process. The two are quite distinct in their functions, even if they
cannot be separated in order to still work.


The brain literally creates sound. Sound does not exist anywhere but
in the brain. Outside there are certainly vibrations and movements,
but that thing we "hear" as a voice or a note is created by the brain
as a response to those stimuli.

Sure, but how does that contradict anything I said though?

The thing is, the ear isn't just a simple transducer... it's not possible
to draw a sharp line anywhere.
--scott

I wonder, at this point, are we nearing the quantum realm with its
uncertainties


Roger Penrose tried that as an explanation for consciousness.

It didn't work out.

--
Les Cargill

[geoff]

On 3/07/2016 5:14 PM, Trevor wrote:


But the great thing for us is that the brain compensates for gross non
linearities in the auditory system, and even for external ones. A
particular favorite of mine has always been HiFi reviewers saying
speakers sound so much better after a "break in" period, not realising
that is mainly their own brain simply adjusting. :-)

Surely that would be assuming that they are listening exclusively to the
speakers under review, and nothing else in the the world during the
period in question.

geoff

[John Williamson]

On 04/07/2016 01:14, geoff wrote:
On 3/07/2016 5:14 PM, Trevor wrote:


But the great thing for us is that the brain compensates for gross non
linearities in the auditory system, and even for external ones. A
particular favorite of mine has always been HiFi reviewers saying
speakers sound so much better after a "break in" period, not realising
that is mainly their own brain simply adjusting. :-)

Surely that would be assuming that they are listening exclusively to the
speakers under review, and nothing else in the the world during the
period in question.

Not at all, the brain is quite capable of holding in memory and using
more than one audio profile at a time.

It can even hold in memory a few profiles, and while it can tell which
set of speakers is in use, it could have difficulty in picking out which
is more accurate to the original sound, especially if the original
source hasn't been heard for a while. This also applies when the
speakers are moved into a different room, as it automatically
compensates to some extent for the room acoustic within a few seconds of
entering the room.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Trevor]

On 4/07/2016 4:05 PM, John Williamson wrote:
On 04/07/2016 01:14, geoff wrote:
On 3/07/2016 5:14 PM, Trevor wrote:
But the great thing for us is that the brain compensates for gross non
linearities in the auditory system, and even for external ones. A
particular favorite of mine has always been HiFi reviewers saying
speakers sound so much better after a "break in" period, not realising
that is mainly their own brain simply adjusting. :-)

Surely that would be assuming that they are listening exclusively to the
speakers under review, and nothing else in the the world during the
period in question.

Not at all, the brain is quite capable of holding in memory and using
more than one audio profile at a time.

Exactly, I'm always amazed how different speakers sometimes sound
strange until I get used to them, but can come back months later without
that original feeling returning. Still easy to pick differences in an
A-B comparison of course. The brain is much better at picking rapid
changes than slow ones.

Trevor.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
wrote:
My guess is that with time and practice, a person should be able to look at
a spectrogram and guess about what the instrument sounds like, at least to
the point of general description of tone color. My next guess is that such
a skill would be pretty much useless to have.

I would guess that if you had say 5 spectrum plots of 2 violins, (10 total) and you could listen to the 10 samples as well, you would be hard pressed to assign the 10 plots to the 2 instruments.

I would be, certainly. But someone who had carefully trained by looking at
lots of spectrograms and listening to the corresponding instruments probably
would be able to. It wouldn't be a trivial thing to learn to do, but I think
one could learn.

If it was just some tones with various harmonic amplitudes, yes, it would be easy.

That's what all sounds are when you look closely enough.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , gray_wolf wrote:
On 7/2/2016 11:30 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

The thing is, the ear isn't just a simple transducer... it's not possible
to draw a sharp line anywhere.

I wonder, at this point, are we nearing the quantum realm with its uncertainties

It's all pretty deterministic until you start thinking abut noise.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
wrote:

My guess is that with time and practice, a person should be able to look at
a spectrogram and guess about what the instrument sounds like, at least to
the point of general description of tone color. My next guess is that such
a skill would be pretty much useless to have.

there was a guy that could ID a phonograph record by looking at the grooves.

I remember that. I always wondered if he was actually looking at the matrix
number....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

On 5/07/2016 1:25 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

My guess is that with time and practice, a person should be able to look at
a spectrogram and guess about what the instrument sounds like, at least to
the point of general description of tone color. My next guess is that such
a skill would be pretty much useless to have.

there was a guy that could ID a phonograph record by looking at the grooves.

I remember that. I always wondered if he was actually looking at the matrix
number....
--scott



I can spot my old Telarc 1812 from a line-up ________/\_______

geoff

[Trevor]

On 5/07/2016 6:29 AM, geoff wrote:
On 5/07/2016 1:25 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
there was a guy that could ID a phonograph record by looking at the
grooves.

I remember that. I always wondered if he was actually looking at the
matrix
number....

I can spot my old Telarc 1812 from a line-up ________/\_______

:-)
That one should be pretty easy!
Bet there are a few of my test records I could pick fairly easily too.

Trevor.