[Bill Baxter]

For years, I had used a Sandisk Sansa Clip + in my car mainly because I
liked the fidelity and also the fact that I can play .flac files.
Recently, after seven years, it went bad and upon my search for a new
one, I see that this model has been discontinued and replaced with the
Sansa Clip Sport. I promptly ordered one and ended up disappointed
immediately. No where near the quality build of the Clip+ and problems
with stuttering, stuck files that won't play, etc and I am returning it.
Unless I want to pay about 2.5x what I paid for the Clip+ originally
for "discontinued-new" units, I see that refurbished options are
available for about the same price that I paid for the Clip Sport. Now
while I don't mind refurb options for certain things, I'm always a
little hesitant when it comes to electronics and thought I would pose
the issue to the group. Would you buy the Clip Plus as a refurbished
unit, or better to buy new at 2.5x the price? If refurb, why or why not?

Thanks,
Bill

[[email protected]]

Bill Baxter:

Before iPod and iPhone I owned several
of the Clip's bigger/slightly older cousin -
the View. And from what you described
it sounds like you are experiencing some
of the *joys* of Sansa player ownership
that finally pushed me over the brink in
going the i-route.

I found nothing wrong with the physical
or graphical user interface of the View(or
first-gen Clip I played with in the store).
And loading them with media was a breeze-
no intermediary software as with the Apple
devices. Features such as graphic EQ and
FM tuner made them the iPod Classic-killer
of their day.

Where Sandisk's Sansa media player
division fell flat was two-fold: incredibly
horrible OS/firmware/if you can call it that,
and, absolutely ZERO customer support for
their own product. In straight play mode,
the 16Gb View was solid. But in shuffle, it
would freeze up. When it started playing
the next song, the screen still displayed
album cover art and title/artist details for
the last song! And the wheel and center
button controlled nothing. I ended up having
to turn it off and back on to restore control of
it.

So, take your chances. Although if I really
really wanted another Sansa media player,
I'd probably start fresh and buy new.

[JackA]

On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 5:44:39 PM UTC-4, Bill Baxter wrote:
For years, I had used a Sandisk Sansa Clip + in my car mainly because I
liked the fidelity and also the fact that I can play .flac files.
Recently, after seven years, it went bad and upon my search for a new
one, I see that this model has been discontinued and replaced with the
Sansa Clip Sport. I promptly ordered one and ended up disappointed
immediately. No where near the quality build of the Clip+ and problems
with stuttering, stuck files that won't play, etc and I am returning it.
Unless I want to pay about 2.5x what I paid for the Clip+ originally
for "discontinued-new" units, I see that refurbished options are
available for about the same price that I paid for the Clip Sport. Now
while I don't mind refurb options for certain things, I'm always a
little hesitant when it comes to electronics and thought I would pose
the issue to the group. Would you buy the Clip Plus as a refurbished
unit, or better to buy new at 2.5x the price? If refurb, why or why not?

Thanks,
Bill

My experience with *newer* Sandisk (64GB and (128GB) USB sticks is wonderful. Have 3 or 4, never a problem.

Jack

[geoff]

On 12/04/2016 9:44 a.m., Bill Baxter wrote:
For years, I had used a Sandisk Sansa Clip + in my car mainly because
I liked the fidelity and also the fact that I can play .flac files.
Recently, after seven years, it went bad and upon my search for a new
one, I see that this model has been discontinued and replaced with the
Sansa Clip Sport. I promptly ordered one and ended up disappointed
immediately. No where near the quality build of the Clip+ and
problems with stuttering, stuck files that won't play, etc and I am
returning it. Unless I want to pay about 2.5x what I paid for the
Clip+ originally for "discontinued-new" units, I see that refurbished
options are available for about the same price that I paid for the
Clip Sport. Now while I don't mind refurb options for certain things,
I'm always a little hesitant when it comes to electronics and thought
I would pose the issue to the group. Would you buy the Clip Plus as a
refurbished unit, or better to buy new at 2.5x the price? If refurb,
why or why not?

Thanks,
Bill

Should be fine. Probably just shop returns given a wipe-down. Do ensure
you have some sort of warranty that includes battery though.

But why not simply use a mobile phone ? Don't know if the 'i-world'
let's you use FLAC, but the free world does. Samsung at least.

geoff

[Bill Baxter]

On 04/11/2016 09:21 PM, geoff wrote:
On 12/04/2016 9:44 a.m., Bill Baxter wrote:
For years, I had used a Sandisk Sansa Clip + in my car mainly because
I liked the fidelity and also the fact that I can play .flac files.
Recently, after seven years, it went bad and upon my search for a new
one, I see that this model has been discontinued and replaced with the
Sansa Clip Sport. I promptly ordered one and ended up disappointed
immediately. No where near the quality build of the Clip+ and
problems with stuttering, stuck files that won't play, etc and I am
returning it. Unless I want to pay about 2.5x what I paid for the
Clip+ originally for "discontinued-new" units, I see that refurbished
options are available for about the same price that I paid for the
Clip Sport. Now while I don't mind refurb options for certain things,
I'm always a little hesitant when it comes to electronics and thought
I would pose the issue to the group. Would you buy the Clip Plus as a
refurbished unit, or better to buy new at 2.5x the price? If refurb,
why or why not?

Thanks,
Bill

Should be fine. Probably just shop returns given a wipe-down. Do ensure
you have some sort of warranty that includes battery though.

But why not simply use a mobile phone ? Don't know if the 'i-world'
let's you use FLAC, but the free world does. Samsung at least.

Some others elsewhere have suggested a mobile phone also, but the
problem is that I don't own one and don't have plans to in the future,
unless there's a certain brand that's cheap, would allow FLAC, and
wouldn't have to have a subscription.

The only other player in the same price range that I've seen allowing
FLAC is a FiiO X3. Don't know anything about it other than reviews that
seem to point to the same problems as I had with the Clip Sport, so I'm
shying away from it.

Bill

geoff

[geoff]

On 12/04/2016 2:52 p.m., Bill Baxter wrote:
.

Some others elsewhere have suggested a mobile phone also, but the
problem is that I don't own one and don't have plans to in the future,
unless there's a certain brand that's cheap, would allow FLAC, and
wouldn't have to have a subscription.


A used Samsung S3 should be pretty cheap, and presumably you have
'prepay' (non-account) plans where you are. But you don't actually have
to use the phone side of things anyway ;-).

Just didn't imagine people don't routinely have cell-phones these days !
I guess no reason that they should. Just nobody I know doesn't,
including a few well into their 80s !

Whatever works best for you at the right price. But as earlier,
'refurbished' units - phones or other media players - are usually
essentially (if not actually) brand-new.

geoff

[Trevor]

On 12/04/2016 1:41 PM, geoff wrote:
On 12/04/2016 2:52 p.m., Bill Baxter wrote:

Some others elsewhere have suggested a mobile phone also, but the
problem is that I don't own one and don't have plans to in the future,
unless there's a certain brand that's cheap, would allow FLAC, and
wouldn't have to have a subscription.

A used Samsung S3 should be pretty cheap, and presumably you have
'prepay' (non-account) plans where you are. But you don't actually have
to use the phone side of things anyway ;-).

Just didn't imagine people don't routinely have cell-phones these days !
I guess no reason that they should. Just nobody I know doesn't,
including a few well into their 80s !



But don't ignore the fact that most mobile phones have nowhere near the
quality sound that the Sansa had. I have no idea about the S3, but
usually people use mobile phones as audio players simply because they
are convenient, not for the sound quality. I certainly wouldn't buy one
primarily as an audio player!

Trevor.

[[email protected]]

Trevor wrote: "But don't ignore the fact that most mobile
phones have nowhere near the quality sound that the
Sansa had. I have no idea about the S3, but "

(Not singling you out Trevor but..)

I'm amazed at the support you all
have given Sandisk's Sansa line
of players in this thread. I guess I'm
the only one in rec.audio.pro who's
had the trouble I described with
one of their players(the freezeups
in Shuffle mode, etc). I guess the
better sound and other benefits
just weren't worth the hassles for
me.

[Bill Baxter]

On 04/12/2016 05:59 AM, wrote:
Trevor wrote: "But don't ignore the fact that most mobile
phones have nowhere near the quality sound that the
Sansa had. I have no idea about the S3, but "

(Not singling you out Trevor but..)

I'm amazed at the support you all
have given Sandisk's Sansa line
of players in this thread. I guess I'm
the only one in rec.audio.pro who's
had the trouble I described with
one of their players(the freezeups
in Shuffle mode, etc). I guess the
better sound and other benefits
just weren't worth the hassles for
me.


I personally had no problem with the Clip+. It was in my car for years,
never taken out so all sorts of temperatures, and up until a couple of
weeks ago worked fine. Basically, it ended up freezing on the "clover"
at bootup and there was no way to unlock it.

The phone idea someone mentioned might be feasible, but as someone else
pointed out, I do imagine the quality would suffer over a standard player.

So I guess it's down to another Clip+. If I can wing it, I'll go for a
"new-discontinued" one over a refurb, but if the extra funds aren't
available, I guess a refurb.

I don't know if it's just me, but I notice quality degradation of
products more and more over time when the product is supposedly upgraded
to a better model. This same thing happened to me with a pulse watch
that I use for monitoring my pulse during physical activity. For years,
I had used a certain brand of watch and model, then it had been replaced
by a newer version which turned out to be junk. My solution in that
case ended up being finding the original model in a "tiny" style (made
for women I guess). I replaced the band and, aside from being a little
harder to see, works just like my original. Why manufacturers want to
mess up a good thing I'll never know when they should leave it well
enough alone.

Bill

[[email protected]]

Bill Baxter wrote: "harder to see, works just like my original.
Why manufacturers want to mess up a good thing I'll never
know when they should leave it well enough alone"


It's called making money. It's also why I
stopped upgrading after a point - sticking
with my 4thgen iPhone and iPod,
running iOS 5 & 6, and iOS 8 on last
year's iPad mini. It's become, as Sammy
Hagar sang on "Right Now": trading
one for another.

As far as the Sansa players go, in the
Amazon reviews I see the "halo" effect
a lot: lots of 5- and and 1-star ratings,
but only a few in-between(3 or 4-star).
That indicates peoples' experience with
them has been either heavenly or
downright horrible(me)!

[Bill Baxter]

On 04/12/2016 06:56 AM, wrote:
Bill Baxter wrote: "harder to see, works just like my original.
Why manufacturers want to mess up a good thing I'll never
know when they should leave it well enough alone"


It's called making money. It's also why I
stopped upgrading after a point - sticking
with my 4thgen iPhone and iPod,
running iOS 5 & 6, and iOS 8 on last
year's iPad mini. It's become, as Sammy
Hagar sang on "Right Now": trading
one for another.

As far as the Sansa players go, in the
Amazon reviews I see the "halo" effect
a lot: lots of 5- and and 1-star ratings,
but only a few in-between(3 or 4-star).
That indicates peoples' experience with
them has been either heavenly or
downright horrible(me)!

On a whim, I decided to do an Amazon search for "flac player" and to my
surprise several came up at reasonable prices. There is one called the
AGPtEK A02 which seems to be getting consistently good reviews and
supports most audio file formats including flac. For $22, I may take a
chance on this. I followed the Clip+ with a preamp from the headphone
output, so it looks like I could do the same with this one.

If anyone wants to chime in about the AGPtEK line as I see there are
others, your comments welcome! The reviews certainly seem better and
more consistent than the latest Sansas.

Bill

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/11/2016 11:41 PM, geoff wrote:

Whatever works best for you at the right price. But as earlier,
'refurbished' units - phones or other media players - are usually
essentially (if not actually) brand-new.

I got a refurbished ZTE Android phone for my AT&T prepaid account. It
cost about $30 and actually has pretty decent sounding audio output. It
even works as a phone, though I rarely use it in that capacity. It has a
slot for a micro SD memory card, so I can load it up with 16 GB worth of
music.

One thing I haven't found (and please, folks, don't tell me what you use
- I've probably already tried it) is a good player app. Although I don't
need iTunes in order to load it up, I can't seem to find one that lets
me manage a playlist the way I want to manage it. I don't listen to
individual songs, when I go on a trip (which is about the only time I
use a music player) I load it up with a handful of 2 or 3 hour radio
programs of music. It seems like it would be so simple to just drag them
into the position on a list where I want to hear them, and have the
player remember where I left off and pick up from there next time I
start it up, but it always seems like a struggle.

I put up with it because it saves me from carrying one more thing with
me when I travel. And in addition to a music player, I have an excellent
instrument tuner, a spectrum analyzer, a scientific calculator, an SPL
meter, a place to store my airline boarding passes, subway and street
maps, a GPS, a crappy camera, a decent recorder if I use a decent mic
with it, a remote controller for my TASCAM DR-44WL portable recorder
(which has perfectly decent mics), and a few other occasionally useful
things. I don't have to make phone calls with it.

Android devices, particularly those from the non-major manufacturers
(like my ZTE) are dirt cheap. Apple devices, however, aren't. I'd love
to have a Series 4 or later iAnything to play with audio apps on, but
haven't been able to score a free or cheap one yet.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Bill Baxter]

On 04/12/2016 09:34 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 4/11/2016 11:41 PM, geoff wrote:

Whatever works best for you at the right price. But as earlier,
'refurbished' units - phones or other media players - are usually
essentially (if not actually) brand-new.

I got a refurbished ZTE Android phone for my AT&T prepaid account. It
cost about $30 and actually has pretty decent sounding audio output. It
even works as a phone, though I rarely use it in that capacity. It has a
slot for a micro SD memory card, so I can load it up with 16 GB worth of
music.

Which model is this? Do you have to have a subscription or prepay to
just use it for music or to run apps?


One thing I haven't found (and please, folks, don't tell me what you use
- I've probably already tried it) is a good player app. Although I don't
need iTunes in order to load it up, I can't seem to find one that lets
me manage a playlist the way I want to manage it. I don't listen to
individual songs, when I go on a trip (which is about the only time I
use a music player) I load it up with a handful of 2 or 3 hour radio
programs of music. It seems like it would be so simple to just drag them
into the position on a list where I want to hear them, and have the
player remember where I left off and pick up from there next time I
start it up, but it always seems like a struggle.

I put up with it because it saves me from carrying one more thing with
me when I travel. And in addition to a music player, I have an excellent
instrument tuner, a spectrum analyzer, a scientific calculator, an SPL
meter, a place to store my airline boarding passes, subway and street
maps, a GPS, a crappy camera, a decent recorder if I use a decent mic
with it, a remote controller for my TASCAM DR-44WL portable recorder
(which has perfectly decent mics), and a few other occasionally useful
things. I don't have to make phone calls with it.

Android devices, particularly those from the non-major manufacturers
(like my ZTE) are dirt cheap. Apple devices, however, aren't. I'd love
to have a Series 4 or later iAnything to play with audio apps on, but
haven't been able to score a free or cheap one yet.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

I wrote:

I got a refurbished ZTE Android phone for my AT&T prepaid account. It

cost about $30 and actually has pretty decent sounding audio output.

On 4/12/2016 9:50 AM, Bill Baxter wrote:
Which model is this? Do you have to have a subscription or prepay to
just use it for music or to run apps?

This is a Z-740, which AT&T called (and has since discontinued) the
Radiant. I've had an AT&T prepaid phone account for years and years, so
I use it with that, and also to play music. I don't use any paid music
subscriptions, but I could if I wanted to.

The phone supports WiFi, and anything but making phone calls will work
on it without a phone account. Its replacement seems to be the ZTE Maven
for $30 without phone service. It has the Android 5.1 operating system,
so it _might_ be compatible with some USB audio recording devices should
you want to use it for some audio applications beyond playing music.
Mine isn't compatible with USB audio and, while I'd like to play with
that feature, I don't care enough about it to want to switch phones at
this point.

https://www.att.com/cellphones/zte/m...sku=sku7780712

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Nil[_2_]]

On 12 Apr 2016, Trevor wrote in rec.audio.pro:

But don't ignore the fact that most mobile phones have nowhere
near the quality sound that the Sansa had.

How have you determined that? Certainly the speaker in a phone will
make everything sound bad, but where have the outputs from their
internal converters and amplifiers been compared or rated?

I don't depend on or expect pristine sound from my portable devices,
but my LG phone and Clip Zip+ sound pretty much the same to me when
pumped through my car audio system or through ear buds.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 12 Apr 2016, Bill Baxter wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I personally had no problem with the Clip+. It was in my car for
years, never taken out so all sorts of temperatures, and up until
a couple of weeks ago worked fine. Basically, it ended up
freezing on the "clover" at bootup and there was no way to unlock
it.

My Clip Zip+ does freeze up every once in a great while. There's a
certain combination of button presses that can reboot it. Have you
tried that solution? I can probably find the recipe if you need it.

The phone idea someone mentioned might be feasible, but as someone
else pointed out, I do imagine the quality would suffer over a
standard player.

I wouldn't assume the quality would be worse. I think it would probably
be comparable.

I don't know if it's just me, but I notice quality degradation of
products more and more over time when the product is supposedly
upgraded to a better model.

I see that, too. I imagine that when a product is first developed and
marketed, they try to fill it up with miraculous features to attract
consumers. Later on, they try to lower manufacturing overhead by
eliminating features they think people don't care about (even if many
of them do) and by cheapening materials where they think people won't
notice (even if many of them do.)

[Bill Baxter]

On 04/12/2016 02:12 PM, Nil wrote:
On 12 Apr 2016, Bill Baxter wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I personally had no problem with the Clip+. It was in my car for
years, never taken out so all sorts of temperatures, and up until
a couple of weeks ago worked fine. Basically, it ended up
freezing on the "clover" at bootup and there was no way to unlock
it.

My Clip Zip+ does freeze up every once in a great while. There's a
certain combination of button presses that can reboot it. Have you
tried that solution? I can probably find the recipe if you need it.

Thanks. I tried everything I could find about unfreezing the unit, but
to no avail as it just wouldn't go past the clover screen. The only
thing I didn't try was opening it up and shorting the pins as some
recommended.


The phone idea someone mentioned might be feasible, but as someone
else pointed out, I do imagine the quality would suffer over a
standard player.

I wouldn't assume the quality would be worse. I think it would probably
be comparable.

I don't know if it's just me, but I notice quality degradation of
products more and more over time when the product is supposedly
upgraded to a better model.

I see that, too. I imagine that when a product is first developed and
marketed, they try to fill it up with miraculous features to attract
consumers. Later on, they try to lower manufacturing overhead by
eliminating features they think people don't care about (even if many
of them do) and by cheapening materials where they think people won't
notice (even if many of them do.)

Sort of like "Coke Classic" and the "new" Coke. The latter went over
really well, not!

[JackA]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 2:30:47 PM UTC-4, Bill Baxter wrote:
On 04/12/2016 02:12 PM, Nil wrote:
On 12 Apr 2016, Bill Baxter wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I personally had no problem with the Clip+. It was in my car for
years, never taken out so all sorts of temperatures, and up until
a couple of weeks ago worked fine. Basically, it ended up
freezing on the "clover" at bootup and there was no way to unlock
it.

My Clip Zip+ does freeze up every once in a great while. There's a
certain combination of button presses that can reboot it. Have you
tried that solution? I can probably find the recipe if you need it.

Thanks. I tried everything I could find about unfreezing the unit, but
to no avail as it just wouldn't go past the clover screen. The only
thing I didn't try was opening it up and shorting the pins as some
recommended.


The phone idea someone mentioned might be feasible, but as someone
else pointed out, I do imagine the quality would suffer over a
standard player.

I wouldn't assume the quality would be worse. I think it would probably
be comparable.

I don't know if it's just me, but I notice quality degradation of
products more and more over time when the product is supposedly
upgraded to a better model.

I see that, too. I imagine that when a product is first developed and
marketed, they try to fill it up with miraculous features to attract
consumers. Later on, they try to lower manufacturing overhead by
eliminating features they think people don't care about (even if many
of them do) and by cheapening materials where they think people won't
notice (even if many of them do.)

Sort of like "Coke Classic" and the "new" Coke. The latter went over
really well, not!

More enjoyable when they included COCAINE!

Jack

[Bill Baxter]

On 04/12/2016 03:26 PM, JackA wrote:
On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 2:30:47 PM UTC-4, Bill Baxter wrote:
On 04/12/2016 02:12 PM, Nil wrote:
On 12 Apr 2016, Bill Baxter wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I personally had no problem with the Clip+. It was in my car for
years, never taken out so all sorts of temperatures, and up until
a couple of weeks ago worked fine. Basically, it ended up
freezing on the "clover" at bootup and there was no way to unlock
it.

My Clip Zip+ does freeze up every once in a great while. There's a
certain combination of button presses that can reboot it. Have you
tried that solution? I can probably find the recipe if you need it.

Thanks. I tried everything I could find about unfreezing the unit, but
to no avail as it just wouldn't go past the clover screen. The only
thing I didn't try was opening it up and shorting the pins as some
recommended.


The phone idea someone mentioned might be feasible, but as someone
else pointed out, I do imagine the quality would suffer over a
standard player.

I wouldn't assume the quality would be worse. I think it would probably
be comparable.

I don't know if it's just me, but I notice quality degradation of
products more and more over time when the product is supposedly
upgraded to a better model.

I see that, too. I imagine that when a product is first developed and
marketed, they try to fill it up with miraculous features to attract
consumers. Later on, they try to lower manufacturing overhead by
eliminating features they think people don't care about (even if many
of them do) and by cheapening materials where they think people won't
notice (even if many of them do.)

Sort of like "Coke Classic" and the "new" Coke. The latter went over
really well, not!

More enjoyable when they included COCAINE!

Jack

You know, I never knew that until I was nearly 30 years old.

Bill

[JackA]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 6:08:31 PM UTC-4, Bill Baxter wrote:
On 04/12/2016 03:26 PM, JackA wrote:
On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 2:30:47 PM UTC-4, Bill Baxter wrote:
On 04/12/2016 02:12 PM, Nil wrote:
On 12 Apr 2016, Bill Baxter wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I personally had no problem with the Clip+. It was in my car for
years, never taken out so all sorts of temperatures, and up until
a couple of weeks ago worked fine. Basically, it ended up
freezing on the "clover" at bootup and there was no way to unlock
it.

My Clip Zip+ does freeze up every once in a great while. There's a
certain combination of button presses that can reboot it. Have you
tried that solution? I can probably find the recipe if you need it.

Thanks. I tried everything I could find about unfreezing the unit, but
to no avail as it just wouldn't go past the clover screen. The only
thing I didn't try was opening it up and shorting the pins as some
recommended.


The phone idea someone mentioned might be feasible, but as someone
else pointed out, I do imagine the quality would suffer over a
standard player.

I wouldn't assume the quality would be worse. I think it would probably
be comparable.

I don't know if it's just me, but I notice quality degradation of
products more and more over time when the product is supposedly
upgraded to a better model.

I see that, too. I imagine that when a product is first developed and
marketed, they try to fill it up with miraculous features to attract
consumers. Later on, they try to lower manufacturing overhead by
eliminating features they think people don't care about (even if many
of them do) and by cheapening materials where they think people won't
notice (even if many of them do.)

Sort of like "Coke Classic" and the "new" Coke. The latter went over
really well, not!

More enjoyable when they included COCAINE!

Jack

You know, I never knew that until I was nearly 30 years old.

Bill

Like, when Sears & Roebuck were legally threatened, "Hang them by their necks until dead!", for fully clothed catalog sketches, of evening wear?

How time change.

Jack

[JackA]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 6:08:31 PM UTC-4, Bill Baxter wrote:
On 04/12/2016 03:26 PM, JackA wrote:
On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 2:30:47 PM UTC-4, Bill Baxter wrote:
On 04/12/2016 02:12 PM, Nil wrote:
On 12 Apr 2016, Bill Baxter wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I personally had no problem with the Clip+. It was in my car for
years, never taken out so all sorts of temperatures, and up until
a couple of weeks ago worked fine. Basically, it ended up
freezing on the "clover" at bootup and there was no way to unlock
it.

My Clip Zip+ does freeze up every once in a great while. There's a
certain combination of button presses that can reboot it. Have you
tried that solution? I can probably find the recipe if you need it.

Thanks. I tried everything I could find about unfreezing the unit, but
to no avail as it just wouldn't go past the clover screen. The only
thing I didn't try was opening it up and shorting the pins as some
recommended.


The phone idea someone mentioned might be feasible, but as someone
else pointed out, I do imagine the quality would suffer over a
standard player.

I wouldn't assume the quality would be worse. I think it would probably
be comparable.

I don't know if it's just me, but I notice quality degradation of
products more and more over time when the product is supposedly
upgraded to a better model.

I see that, too. I imagine that when a product is first developed and
marketed, they try to fill it up with miraculous features to attract
consumers. Later on, they try to lower manufacturing overhead by
eliminating features they think people don't care about (even if many
of them do) and by cheapening materials where they think people won't
notice (even if many of them do.)

Sort of like "Coke Classic" and the "new" Coke. The latter went over
really well, not!

More enjoyable when they included COCAINE!

Jack

You know, I never knew that until I was nearly 30 years old.

Bill

Things and trends I watch that tell me America is degrading or in an act of desperation.

A.) When growing up, when Mom cooked Chicken, I never recall anyone wanting the wings. Felt they were scrap. Sure enough, I check online and in the 50's they were considered scrap. These days, they are like a delicacy!

B.) Friend and I were chatting about Energy Drinks, like 5-Hour Energy. They can be costly, at $3.49 a bottle. I joked and said, you watch, someone will offer clean air in a can. Months later, I go to Wall Mart and on their shelf is, by weight, empty cans. What is it? Pure oxygen, 20 shots! Not cheap!
[At one time, with newborns in incubators, they felt pure oxygen was best for them. Later, they discovered that pure oxygen caused many to go blind]!!

C.) Maybe because prepared food tastes so bland, everyone is on the "Buffalo" kick, spice-up everything!!

Just my two cents

Jack