[[email protected]]

Peter
Why so combative over a simple proposal? I've played Jazz for 40 years and know how to use dynamics. The PA will sound cleaner if my mic is turned down most of the time except when I need it. That way it's not picking up all the other instruments.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

skrev i en meddelelse
...

Peter

Please use a proper usenet client, Netscape 4.7 is good if you can find it
and please quote properly.

Why so combative over a simple proposal?

Because you are in my professionel opinion plain wrong. Some of the time
being direct sounds blunt, I'm sorry.

I've played Jazz for 40 years and know how to use dynamics.

Then do it. Forget the PA is there. Play as if it isn't there.

10 dB of gain riding is just a plain annoyance, it is absurdly too much, 0.2
to 4 dB might be correct to focus or it might not depending on whether it is
first set or third and the audience is half drunk and more noisy. The actual
increments used in real mixing can be surprisingly small and some of the
time it is just a tweak of a tone control instead of fader movement. That is
not something you can replace with a 10 dB stomp box and you shouldn't even
try, make music.

The PA will sound cleaner if my mic is turned down most
of the time except when I need it. That way it's not picking
up all the other instruments.

In a narrow sense you are right. In an equally narrow sense it would be
technically proper to use autotune, just to make sure that it is in tune
with the agreed tuning. But that one concern applies does not make it the
optimum decision.

If the PA can not be left untouched for a jazz concert, then the setup is
plain wrong. It is an acoustic event that needs carry under some
circumstances, but not a frigging x-factor event where everything is
ultraproduced, the PA is there to convey it to the entire room.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[geoff]

On 21/04/2015 9:45 a.m., wrote:
Peter Why so combative over a simple proposal? I've played Jazz for
40 years and know how to use dynamics. The PA will sound cleaner if
my mic is turned down most of the time except when I need it. That
way it's not picking up all the other instruments.


Thinking about it more, as a one-time aspiring sax player (beautiful
Buescher tenor, but too young and not enough self-discipline,
application, and stickability to get anywhere), if you need a boost for
solos, then maybe you are playing too hard the rest of the time. Like
Clemons did.

geoff

[[email protected]]

Putting aside all the expressions of puritanical musical moral outrage, what I am interested in is whether or not there is s market for such a device. Sometimes I play jazz jobs and have no mic at all , the and other times I'm playing in a funk band, and when the guitar player stomps on his solo switch , I want to do the same. Why doesn't the guitar player just set his volume higher and then play more softly? Because when you turn up the volume , you amplify the hum and noise and fretboard sounds. Same for me, if I set my volume high and then back off the mic during non-solo periods, it picks up every little clank and rattle of my 1954 vintage sax, not to mention all the other Amps and drums around me. So my suggestion is a practical solution for real-world musicians, and if it violates someone's concept of a utopian musical world , then I can live with that.

[geoff]

On 25/04/2015 11:37 p.m., wrote:
Putting aside all the expressions of puritanical musical moral
outrage, what I am interested in is whether or not there is s market
for such a device. Sometimes I play jazz jobs and have no mic at all

You'll just have to use your technique there then !


, the and other times I'm playing in a funk band, and when the
guitar player stomps on his solo switch ,

Aren't they a pain ?

I want to do the same. Why
doesn't the guitar player just set his volume higher and then play
more softly?

Or set his volume higher and play the same. That is what he is actually
doing. Lazy.



Because when you turn up the volume , you amplify the
hum and noise and fretboard sounds.

Um, theoretically, but for the audience it's the loud guitar that is
noticed.

Same for me, if I set my volume
high and then back off the mic during non-solo periods, it picks up
every little clank and rattle of my 1954 vintage sax, not to mention
all the other Amps and drums around me.

Get a more appropriate mic, and maintain your instrument.

So my suggestion is a
practical solution for real-world musicians,

Easy to do - I posted a link to gadgets that will do it. Not rare or
esoteric. Ever wonder why not often used ?

Actually at a gig with a 'sound engineer', he/she may often raise the
fader for a solo. But that's a lot more subtle, and interactive.

and if it violates
someone's concept of a utopian musical world , then I can live with
that.

;-)

geoff

[[email protected]]

Geof
Thanks for the links, but all those devices have attenuations in the 20-40 db range, I'm looking for 3-6 db, and easily activated while standing in front of a mic.

Regarding your comments on how the musical world should ideally be, I have no control over what others do, so as a practical matter I need to do what works when I am asked to fill in with a band. I take it you are not an active musician yourself?

Bob

[Randy Yates[_2_]]

writes:

Geof
Thanks for the links, but all those devices have attenuations in the 20-40 db range, I'm looking for 3-6 db, and easily activated while standing in front of a mic.

Regarding your comments on how the musical world should ideally be, I
have no control over what others do, so as a practical matter I need
to do what works when I am asked to fill in with a band. I take it you
are not an active musician yourself?

Bob,

Consider this: acoustic pianos do not have volume knobs, so how do we
ever get loud enough to do a solo?
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

skrev i en meddelelse
...

Geof
Thanks for the links, but all those devices have attenuations
in the 20-40 db range, I'm looking for 3-6 db, and easily
activated while standing in front of a mic.

You asked for 10 dB at first, so you must have listened, thanks. Surely you
have better control over your playing fortitude than to need assistance with
the difference between a mf and a single f? - surely you take your solo to a
p?

Regarding your comments on how the musical world should
ideally be, I have no control over what others do,

You really really need to go to some chamber music concerts or other
concerts that are not amplified in any way or even simply listening to some
78 rpm records or go to a proper bluegrass concert. Just as you make way for
other people playing a solo then you could try trusting your fellow ensemble
partners making way for your solo.

so as a practical matter I need to do what works when I am asked
to fill in with a band.

The terse comment is: be a member of it. If you want to fight your solo to
the front when you want to play a solo by owerpowering, then you are not a
member of a band nor a good teammate. Like in city traffic: negotiate you
way and use the openings you are given. Be a part of the teamwork and
provide a good show to the audience.

Bob

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[[email protected]]

So why don't we completely abandon all electronic effects and processing gear and just insist that all music be performed live with only acoustic instruments? I'm sure some on this thread would be very happy with that state of affairs. But 99.9% of the rest of us would miss the last 60 years of popular music. The guitar player next to me has an astonishing amount of signal processing in his pedal, and has learned to use this power very tastefully and artistically. I just want 3 resistors and a switch. Seems like I should be able to talk about this without people who have never heard me play make all sorts of judgmental statements about my musicianship.

I am strictly an amateur musician, and my day job is designing chips that are likely in the signal path of equipment everyone on this thread uses. I play in bars and restaurants and VFW halls and do it for free. So let's say that you are all correct and that the guitar player is too loud and sometimes I don't play with enough dynamics. So should we bash all those amateurs and substitute string quartets in their place? I must say I am offended by the high-handed snobbish attitude that is evident in these posts. All I asked about was 3 resistors and a switch.

Bob

[geoff]

On 26/04/2015 2:42 a.m., wrote:
Geof Thanks for the links, but all those devices have attenuations in
the 20-40 db range,

A simple change of 2 or 4 resistors.

I'm looking for 3-6 db, and easily activated
while standing in front of a mic.

Easier still to simple blow a little harder. Or to be playing a little
softer beforehand. And you are only talking about a little.


Regarding your comments on how the musical world should ideally be, I
have no control over what others do, so as a practical matter I need
to do what works when I am asked to fill in with a band. I take it
you are not an active musician yourself?

Active yes, professional (musician) no, unless you call some basic
backing tracks 'pro'. But with my producer hat on I think I know what
to request from, or suggest to musicians who I am working with. And that
is usually to address the problem in the performance rather than with
equipment.

geoff

[Black Iccy]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 07:42:22 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Geof
Thanks for the links, but all those devices have attenuations in the 20-40 db range,
I'm looking for 3-6 db, and easily activated while standing in front of a mic.

You _really_ think 6 dB will be enough?
How soon before you forget to reduce level again?

Regarding your comments on how the musical world should ideally be, I have no control over what others do,

But you _do_ have control over yourself. Ideally the others should contribute
equally to the overall performance and that is the argument being proposed by
the people with, let's say, an acoustic purist appoach.
If " the band" is frequently composed of strangers, then I'd have
some sympathy for your predicaments but it sounds like a free-for-all
situation with a sound reinforcement process added in.

Read up on this. It will probably be situationally unobtainable
but it should mark out the performance approach to be taken.
Section: Mercury Living Presence series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Records

so as a practical matter I need to do what works when I am asked to fill in with a band.
I take it you are not an active musician yourself?

Sorry, but that's a poor type of response which gets no kudos from me
(and I am NOT a musician in case you ask). I used to sit in on a local radio
station weekly Jazz recording sessions (early 60's). We had no problem when
reducing inputs to a mono recording (no multi channel broadcasts in those
days). As for mics, someone mentioned a "bell" ? (yes I know what it means)
and if you, yourself, are getting extraneous "spill", a very effective
cardiod.

[geoff]

On 27/04/2015 12:56 p.m., Black Iccy wrote:

But you _do_ have control over yourself. Ideally the others should contribute
equally to the overall performance and that is the argument being proposed by
the people with, let's say, an acoustic purist appoach.


The scenario I see (happens often, but mostly with teens) is that
cyclicly EVERYBODY ends up turning things up, until everybody is at "11".

"That naughty sax is getting too prominent, maybe I need a 200W guitar
amp rather than a 100W one". Only a potential 3dB increase, but the
average guitarist doesn't know that.

geoff

[~misfit~[_3_]]

Once upon a time on usenet wrote:
Putting aside all the expressions of puritanical musical moral
outrage, what I am interested in is whether or not there is s market
for such a device. Sometimes I play jazz jobs and have no mic at all
, the and other times I'm playing in a funk band, and when the
guitar player stomps on his solo switch , I want to do the same. Why
doesn't the guitar player just set his volume higher and then play
more softly? Because when you turn up the volume , you amplify the
hum and noise and fretboard sounds. Same for me, if I set my volume
high and then back off the mic during non-solo periods, it picks up
every little clank and rattle of my 1954 vintage sax, not to mention
all the other Amps and drums around me. So my suggestion is a
practical solution for real-world musicians, and if it violates
someone's concept of a utopian musical world , then I can live with
that.

God-damnned wall-of-text!

If posters can't write properly I'm not reading it. (Yes I realise it's 12
months old.)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)