[Nate Najar]

So I'll be doing a little recording soon, just me on classical guitar and an upright bassist. I'm going to do it in the bassist's living room. This is for reasons of ease and relaxation of performance. I want to do it as easily as possible. If I only use 2 channels I can bring minimal gear. I would use my sound devices USBpre2 and a laptop running reaper. I can bring extra converters and preamps for multichannel but I feel that would over complicate things for a variety of reasons. It is important to document this particular duo and now is definitely the time to do it.

The best mics I have available to me are a pair of schoeps cmc641, a pair of dpa 4061, a decent sounding 414buls and a THE with a LD cardioid head. But I am only planning on 2 channels.....

My inclination is to go one of two ways. Close mic each of us with the schoeps like a studio recording, and apply mild eq, reverb and pan after the fact. Considering the room this may be the best way to go. Although the room isn't "bad", it just sounds like a living room!

Or put them on a stereo bar and go to town. Since they're super cardioid, I am not sure the proper angle and spacing for something like this. Going the stereo bar route would be the most comfortable for the bassist, as he can forget the mics are there. We can balance ourselves naturally and without conscious consideration in a small setting like this, although the aesthetic will be different in the final product. I am used to recording the guitar and making it sound much larger than it is in real life! Close miking with a schoeps is good for that!

Since I am the recordist and performer, I am inclined to close mic so I can worry about the performance and deal with the sound later. But the ease of the stereo approach is tempting, plus the natural sound. I cannot listen to the group and move the mics around to find the best method for the obvious reason, and some trial and error is possible but not too much or it will kill the moment with this particular combination of musicians.

So I really have 2 questions, one more important than the other. The most pressing one to me is, if I use the schoeps on a stereo bar, how the heck do you orient them considering they are super cardioid and not regular cardioid?

The other question (I know this room so I am pretty sure I know the answer to this) is, would you just do it on the stereo bar given the circumstances?

Thanks!

N

[Carey Carlan]

Nate Najar wrote in
:

So I'll be doing a little recording soon, just me on classical guitar
and an upright bassist. I'm going to do it in the bassist's living
room. This is for reasons of ease and relaxation of performance. I
want to do it as easily as possible. If I only use 2 channels I can
bring minimal gear. I would use my sound devices USBpre2 and a laptop
running reaper. I can bring extra converters and preamps for
multichannel but I feel that would over complicate things for a
variety of reasons. It is important to document this particular duo
and now is definitely the time to do it.

The best mics I have available to me are a pair of schoeps cmc641, a
pair of dpa 4061, a decent sounding 414buls and a THE with a LD
cardioid head. But I am only planning on 2 channels.....

My inclination is to go one of two ways. Close mic each of us with
the schoeps like a studio recording, and apply mild eq, reverb and pan
after the fact. Considering the room this may be the best way to go.
Although the room isn't "bad", it just sounds like a living room!

Or put them on a stereo bar and go to town. Since they're super
cardioid, I am not sure the proper angle and spacing for something
like this. Going the stereo bar route would be the most comfortable
for the bassist, as he can forget the mics are there. We can balance
ourselves naturally and without conscious consideration in a small
setting like this, although the aesthetic will be different in the
final product. I am used to recording the guitar and making it sound
much larger than it is in real life! Close miking with a schoeps is
good for that!

Since I am the recordist and performer, I am inclined to close mic so
I can worry about the performance and deal with the sound later. But
the ease of the stereo approach is tempting, plus the natural sound.
I cannot listen to the group and move the mics around to find the best
method for the obvious reason, and some trial and error is possible
but not too much or it will kill the moment with this particular
combination of musicians.

So I really have 2 questions, one more important than the other. The
most pressing one to me is, if I use the schoeps on a stereo bar, how
the heck do you orient them considering they are super cardioid and
not regular cardioid?

The other question (I know this room so I am pretty sure I know the
answer to this) is, would you just do it on the stereo bar given the
circumstances?

Thanks!

N

I live off my MK41's (plus some DPA 4006 omnis). They are wonderful
mics.

The decision of close or stereo pair rests entirely with your ears. Do
you like the sound of that living room enough to preserve it forever or
could you do better in post? Therein lies your answer.

As for stereo pair, they perform like everyone thinks a cardioid pair is
supposed to work, only better. They give you a very clean stereo image
with their superb off-axis response, and the supercardioid (not really
quite hypercardioid) pattern takes out much of that room you worry
about.

The general consensus as I perceive it is that an ORTF pattern works
very well. If the microphones are within about five feet of you
performers, you will probably want to drop down to a coincident pattern
to minimize violent shifts in the stereo space if you move about while
playing.

For close mic placement, I've discovered that a 41 pointed straight down
about a foot in front of a guitar near the bottom of the neck (out of
range of the right hand) gives an excellent illusion of being farther
away while still retaining that ultra clean close-mike performance.

The equivalent position on a bass would be in front of the bass's left
side, about 18" in front of the bass, also pointing straight down.

Both of these settings require you to stay fairly still while playing.
If that's an issue, three feet in front staring directly into the f-hole
of the bass or the sound hole of the guitar also works well.

Remember that the null is at 120 degrees, so stay together to mix or
separate a third of a circle apart to isolate.

[Nate Najar]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 9:43:29 PM UTC-4, Carey Carlan wrote:
Nate Najar wrote in

:



So I'll be doing a little recording soon, just me on classical guitar

and an upright bassist. I'm going to do it in the bassist's living

room. This is for reasons of ease and relaxation of performance. I

want to do it as easily as possible. If I only use 2 channels I can

bring minimal gear. I would use my sound devices USBpre2 and a laptop

running reaper. I can bring extra converters and preamps for

multichannel but I feel that would over complicate things for a

variety of reasons. It is important to document this particular duo

and now is definitely the time to do it.



The best mics I have available to me are a pair of schoeps cmc641, a

pair of dpa 4061, a decent sounding 414buls and a THE with a LD

cardioid head. But I am only planning on 2 channels.....



My inclination is to go one of two ways. Close mic each of us with

the schoeps like a studio recording, and apply mild eq, reverb and pan

after the fact. Considering the room this may be the best way to go.

Although the room isn't "bad", it just sounds like a living room!



Or put them on a stereo bar and go to town. Since they're super

cardioid, I am not sure the proper angle and spacing for something

like this. Going the stereo bar route would be the most comfortable

for the bassist, as he can forget the mics are there. We can balance

ourselves naturally and without conscious consideration in a small

setting like this, although the aesthetic will be different in the

final product. I am used to recording the guitar and making it sound

much larger than it is in real life! Close miking with a schoeps is

good for that!



Since I am the recordist and performer, I am inclined to close mic so

I can worry about the performance and deal with the sound later. But

the ease of the stereo approach is tempting, plus the natural sound.

I cannot listen to the group and move the mics around to find the best

method for the obvious reason, and some trial and error is possible

but not too much or it will kill the moment with this particular

combination of musicians.



So I really have 2 questions, one more important than the other. The

most pressing one to me is, if I use the schoeps on a stereo bar, how

the heck do you orient them considering they are super cardioid and

not regular cardioid?



The other question (I know this room so I am pretty sure I know the

answer to this) is, would you just do it on the stereo bar given the

circumstances?



Thanks!



N



I live off my MK41's (plus some DPA 4006 omnis). They are wonderful

mics.



The decision of close or stereo pair rests entirely with your ears. Do

you like the sound of that living room enough to preserve it forever or

could you do better in post? Therein lies your answer.



As for stereo pair, they perform like everyone thinks a cardioid pair is

supposed to work, only better. They give you a very clean stereo image

with their superb off-axis response, and the supercardioid (not really

quite hypercardioid) pattern takes out much of that room you worry

about.



The general consensus as I perceive it is that an ORTF pattern works

very well. If the microphones are within about five feet of you

performers, you will probably want to drop down to a coincident pattern

to minimize violent shifts in the stereo space if you move about while

playing.



For close mic placement, I've discovered that a 41 pointed straight down

about a foot in front of a guitar near the bottom of the neck (out of

range of the right hand) gives an excellent illusion of being farther

away while still retaining that ultra clean close-mike performance.



The equivalent position on a bass would be in front of the bass's left

side, about 18" in front of the bass, also pointing straight down.



Both of these settings require you to stay fairly still while playing.

If that's an issue, three feet in front staring directly into the f-hole

of the bass or the sound hole of the guitar also works well.



Remember that the null is at 120 degrees, so stay together to mix or

separate a third of a circle apart to isolate.

thanks Carey, this is very helpful. I think I will close mic... that will be the easiest way to get a decent, consistent sound. thanks for the tips I'm looking forward to trying those placements....

N