[Don P.]

brassplyer scribbled:

On Marvin Gaye's cut "Mercy Mercy Me" there's this repetitive echoing
"ponk" that sort of sounds like a sonar ping or something. Anyone know
how that sound was created? Seems I may have heard it on other songs
as well.


I just happen to have a copy of the 16-track. Let's take a look (Listen?).
There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the kick, track 2 is the
rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4 is woodblock (with some
alternate celeste in it).

Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the snare. Stick
that thru a plate and there's your sound.

Incidentally, there's lots of electric guitar bleed, some bass bleed, and a
little bit of piano bleed on the conga track. Interesting stuff.

[brassplyer]

On Apr 3, 10:03*am, "Don P." wrote:

I just happen to have a copy of the 16-track. Let's take a look (Listen?)..
There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the kick, track 2 is the
rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4 is woodblock (with some
alternate celeste in it).

Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the snare. Stick
that thru a plate and there's your sound.


Hmm... Given the pitch and overall timbre of the root sound I have a
hard time believing that's a conga. It definitely sounds like
something hard being struck rather than a drum head of any sort. Wood
block struck with something like a timpani mallet or something?

Of course if someone wants to demonstrate that sound can be reproduced
with a conga and the kind of fx available at the time I'm open to be
convinced.

[Nil]

On 03 Apr 2011, "Don P." wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I just happen to have a copy of the 16-track. Let's take a look
(Listen?). There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the
kick, track 2 is the rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4
is woodblock (with some alternate celeste in it).

Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the
snare. Stick that thru a plate and there's your sound.

I have that, too, but I don't think the conga track is what's making
the "racquetball"/ping sound. I can hear the conga track buried inside
the final mix - the ping sounds like a discreet track, and isn't
included in the 16-track version that's going around.

[[email protected]]

On 2011-04-03 said:
snip
(Listen?). There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the
kick, track 2 is the rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4
is woodblock (with some alternate celeste in it).
Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the
snare. Stick that thru a plate and there's your sound.
I have that, too, but I don't think the conga track is what's making
the "racquetball"/ping sound. I can hear the conga track buried
inside the final mix - the ping sounds like a discreet track, and
isn't included in the 16-track version that's going around.

Maybe because it was created on the fly at mixdown. I can
see this one easy enough.

Conga drum, slapped on beat 2 & 4 as snare. send signal to
a gate, or human act as "gate" on the console while mixing,
capture that near the rim conga hit via a nice verb, etc.
And, unless you were at the sessions you don't know if 16
was all the tracks recorded, or there weren't more g.

Just $0.02 worth from the peanut gallery here.



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Don P.]

Nil scribbled:

On 03 Apr 2011, "Don P." wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I just happen to have a copy of the 16-track. Let's take a look
(Listen?). There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the
kick, track 2 is the rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4
is woodblock (with some alternate celeste in it).

Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the
snare. Stick that thru a plate and there's your sound.

I have that, too, but I don't think the conga track is what's making
the "racquetball"/ping sound. I can hear the conga track buried inside
the final mix - the ping sounds like a discreet track, and isn't
included in the 16-track version that's going around.

I went back and listened to both the multitrack and the final mix. I can
get close to what they did in the mix if I pan the conga track hard left,
EQ it really badly to bring out the high slap, and send it thru a plate.
Gotta keep turning the reverb send up and down on the conga slap to keep
the whole track from swimming, so they were most likely gating the reverb
send to only let the "ping" get through.

I thought it might have also been the woodblock, so I tried that, but its
pitch is higher than the ping, and it's not there in the beginning.

Mind you, my reverb return is stereo, and their plate is mono. (goes back
to return pan pots)

That sounds about right. Pan the reverb return slightly to the right.

The other problem is my plate reverb isn't a plate, but is a Behringer V-
Verb Pro (a.k.a. REV2496) plate. Tried it through a Lexicon "plate", but
that was really bright.

Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix. That
would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit from the
track. Who knows?

[Nil]

On 03 Apr 2011, "Don P." wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I went back and listened to both the multitrack and the final mix.
I can get close to what they did in the mix if I pan the conga
track hard left, EQ it really badly to bring out the high slap,
and send it thru a plate. Gotta keep turning the reverb send up
and down on the conga slap to keep the whole track from swimming,
so they were most likely gating the reverb send to only let the
"ping" get through.

Thing is, though, that the conga track is quite busy - I think there
are at least two conga players playing simultaneously. I think it would
be difficult or impossible to EQ the track so that you couldn't hear
the other drum beats but the ones on 2 and 4, which are so forward in
the final mix. I think you'd still hear traces of the the other conga
hits, especially with that big bright reverb.

Maybe it is a high-pitched conga, since they obviously had them there
at the session. It could have added later.

Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix.
That would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit
from the track. Who knows?

That's what I'm thinking.

[brassplyer]

On Apr 3, 4:34*pm, "Don P." wrote:

I thought it might have also been the woodblock, so I tried that, but its
pitch is higher than the ping, and it's not there in the beginning.


Wood blocks come in various pitches.

[sTeeVee]

On Apr 3, 5:42*pm, brassplyer wrote:
On Apr 3, 4:34*pm, "Don P." wrote:

I thought it might have also been the woodblock, so I tried that, but its
pitch is higher than the ping, and it's not there in the beginning.

Wood blocks come in various pitches.

Either a conga tuned very high or a bongo - definitely something with
a head on it. If you've ever played hand percussion in a studio
environment, I think you'd agree immediately that this is a drum, and
not a wood block, temple block, cowbell or other. Another poster was
quite right - there is more than 1 Marvin Gaye with this very creative
"substution of a snare on the 2 and 4" used.

Went nuts for it when I first heard it in my late teens...like Voyage
to the Bottom of the Sea meets Motown.

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 15:34:27 -0500, Don P. wrote:

snip
The other problem is my plate reverb isn't a plate, but is a Behringer
V- Verb Pro (a.k.a. REV2496) plate. Tried it through a Lexicon "plate",
but that was really bright.

Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix. That
would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit from the
track. Who knows?

The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.

[Don P.]

philicorda scribbled:


The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.


Or just de-tune the plate :-)

[Steve King]

"Don P." wrote in message
...
philicorda scribbled:


The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.


Or just de-tune the plate :-)

The idea of detuning an EMT plate for a single effect just boggles my
mind;-)

Steve King

[Scott Dorsey]

Steve King wrote:
"Don P." wrote in message
...
philicorda scribbled:


The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.


Or just de-tune the plate :-)

The idea of detuning an EMT plate for a single effect just boggles my
mind;-)

Just send the intern in to do it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Steve King]

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 15:34:27 -0500, Don P. wrote:

snip
The other problem is my plate reverb isn't a plate, but is a Behringer
V- Verb Pro (a.k.a. REV2496) plate. Tried it through a Lexicon "plate",
but that was really bright.

Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix. That
would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit from the
track. Who knows?

The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.

Did you have in mind any analogue EQs of the time that are capable of what
you describe?

Steve King

[Scott Dorsey]

Steve King wrote:
"philicorda" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 15:34:27 -0500, Don P. wrote:

snip
The other problem is my plate reverb isn't a plate, but is a Behringer
V- Verb Pro (a.k.a. REV2496) plate. Tried it through a Lexicon "plate",
but that was really bright.

Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix. That
would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit from the
track. Who knows?

The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.

Did you have in mind any analogue EQs of the time that are capable of what
you describe?

That album was what, 1970?

If I had to do it today I'd use an Orban 622 which was a few years later.

When did the ITI come out?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Steve King]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Steve King wrote:
"philicorda" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 15:34:27 -0500, Don P. wrote:

snip
The other problem is my plate reverb isn't a plate, but is a Behringer
V- Verb Pro (a.k.a. REV2496) plate. Tried it through a Lexicon "plate",
but that was really bright.

Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix. That
would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit from the
track. Who knows?

The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.

Did you have in mind any analogue EQs of the time that are capable of what
you describe?

That album was what, 1970?

If I had to do it today I'd use an Orban 622 which was a few years later.

When did the ITI come out?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Could have been the ITI. Mix magazine has Massenburg using the EQ in 1967.
An EQ module was shown at AES in 1971. Interesting story he
http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-...alizer-090106/

Steve King

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 10:28:45 -0500, Steve King wrote:

snip
The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return. Put a
band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type. It
doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.

Did you have in mind any analogue EQs of the time that are capable of
what you describe?

Things like the Moog 914 filter bank were around by that time.

What was more common is a passive high/low pass. I have seen in pictures
of old studios a passive high/low pass filter, in a rack with two big
knobs on the front. I can't remember which companies made them, but I
think they date back to the 50's. I don't think it was Pultec, but rather
folk like Eckmiller, Neumann or Siemens.



Steve King

[Steve King]

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 10:28:45 -0500, Steve King wrote:

snip
The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return. Put a
band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type. It
doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.

Did you have in mind any analogue EQs of the time that are capable of
what you describe?

Things like the Moog 914 filter bank were around by that time.

What was more common is a passive high/low pass. I have seen in pictures
of old studios a passive high/low pass filter, in a rack with two big
knobs on the front. I can't remember which companies made them, but I
think they date back to the 50's. I don't think it was Pultec, but rather
folk like Eckmiller, Neumann or Siemens.

Pultec did make a high-low pass filter. Very popular through the 70s. So
did a few others.

Steve King