[Arny Krueger]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message

On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 06:48:29 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Scott" wrote in message


I don't agree that the *inherent*
colorations of vinyl are so gross that one can easily
identify them by ear alone

But, you won't take reasonable steps to demonstrate that
assertion.

and I also disagree that the
colorations are so severe that no LP can ever truly
sound great.

Given the current market penetration of the LP,
essentially a moot point. Virtually nobody ever listens
to LPs any more. Very few people even have turntables.

OK, let's see your facts and figures Arny. What
percentage of audio enthusiasts do have turntables in the
world and do listen to vinyl?

Based on the 40 or so people in my audio club, nobody listens to vinyl any
more, even the few people like me who still have a turntable.

You see, your constant assertion that "virtually nobody"
listens to LPs any more", doesn't seem to Jibe with
reality.

OK, let's see your facts and figures. What percentage of audio enthusiasts
do have turntables in the world and do listen to vinyl?

[Audio Empire]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 05:28:52 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Audio Empire" wrote in message

On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 06:48:29 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Scott" wrote in message


I don't agree that the *inherent*
colorations of vinyl are so gross that one can easily
identify them by ear alone

But, you won't take reasonable steps to demonstrate that
assertion.

and I also disagree that the
colorations are so severe that no LP can ever truly
sound great.

Given the current market penetration of the LP,
essentially a moot point. Virtually nobody ever listens
to LPs any more. Very few people even have turntables.

OK, let's see your facts and figures Arny. What
percentage of audio enthusiasts do have turntables in the
world and do listen to vinyl?

Based on the 40 or so people in my audio club, nobody listens to vinyl any
more, even the few people like me who still have a turntable.

You see, your constant assertion that "virtually nobody"
listens to LPs any more", doesn't seem to Jibe with
reality.

OK, let's see your facts and figures. What percentage of audio enthusiasts
do have turntables in the world and do listen to vinyl?



You are the one that asserts that nobody listens to vinyl any more. My
assertion is based on the large number of record decks, arms, cartridges and
phono preamps available in the marketplace today and the fact that new ones
are coming out all the time. If nobody listens to vinyl any more, there would
be no market for these devices, yet there obviously is. People can't stay in
business if nobody is buying their products. That's basic business economics.


However I did talk to Sumiko (who imports Pro-Ject tables and several
cartridge lines) this AM, and their marketing guy told me that Sumiko sold
almost a half a million turntable units in the USA and Canada alone in 2010.
Worldwide, he said that estimates are that vinyl is a 1.2 billion dollar
business. A niche, yes, but a big enough pie that many companies can get a
healthy slice of it. And it means that the number of people who listen to
vinyl is hardly "nobody" and that those "nobodies" are (currently, anyway)
growing in number.

[Arny Krueger]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message


You are the one that asserts that nobody listens to vinyl
any more. My assertion is based on the large number of
record decks, arms, cartridges and phono preamps
available in the marketplace today and the fact that new
ones are coming out all the time.

Availability does not necessarily equal sales. Without actual sales figures
your assertions have no meaning. Product announcements may be for products
that are vapor.

If nobody listens to
vinyl any more, there would be no market for these
devices, yet there obviously is.

The market size is at this time unknown for the reasons stated above.

People can't stay in
business if nobody is buying their products. That's basic
business economics.

Furthermore, were you to provide actual sales figures, we'd have to divide
that by another unknown, the size of the total audiophile market.


However I did talk to Sumiko (who imports Pro-Ject tables
and several cartridge lines) this AM, and their marketing
guy told me that Sumiko sold almost a half a million
turntable units in the USA and Canada alone in 2010.
Worldwide, he said that estimates are that vinyl is a 1.2
billion dollar business.

A salesman bragging does not make a reliable statistics.

According to CEDIA total 2010 home audio component sales were $3.78 billion.
Vinyl = 1/3 of all home audio component sales? I don't think so.

http://www.twice.com/article/463519-...rnaround.ph p

A niche, yes, but a big enough
pie that many companies can get a healthy slice of it.
And it means that the number of people who listen to
vinyl is hardly "nobody" and that those "nobodies" are
(currently, anyway) growing in number.

No reliable evidence about vinyl to be seen here yet, I fear.

[Audio Empire]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:03:52 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Audio Empire" wrote in message


You are the one that asserts that nobody listens to vinyl
any more. My assertion is based on the large number of
record decks, arms, cartridges and phono preamps
available in the marketplace today and the fact that new
ones are coming out all the time.

Availability does not necessarily equal sales. Without actual sales figures
your assertions have no meaning. Product announcements may be for products
that are vapor.

If nobody listens to
vinyl any more, there would be no market for these
devices, yet there obviously is.

The market size is at this time unknown for the reasons stated above.

People can't stay in
business if nobody is buying their products. That's basic
business economics.

Furthermore, were you to provide actual sales figures, we'd have to divide
that by another unknown, the size of the total audiophile market.


However I did talk to Sumiko (who imports Pro-Ject tables
and several cartridge lines) this AM, and their marketing
guy told me that Sumiko sold almost a half a million
turntable units in the USA and Canada alone in 2010.
Worldwide, he said that estimates are that vinyl is a 1.2
billion dollar business.

A salesman bragging does not make a reliable statistics.

According to CEDIA total 2010 home audio component sales were $3.78 billion.
Vinyl = 1/3 of all home audio component sales? I don't think so.


http://www.twice.com/article/463519-
CEA_Component_Audio_Leads_Home_Audio_Turna
round.php

A niche, yes, but a big enough
pie that many companies can get a healthy slice of it.
And it means that the number of people who listen to
vinyl is hardly "nobody" and that those "nobodies" are
(currently, anyway) growing in number.

No reliable evidence about vinyl to be seen here yet, I fear.


And as I figured, You would not accept any proof of any kind because it goes
against the your preconceived notion about the truth. The fact that these
components exists in the marketplace would be enough proof for any reasonable
person that the market is healthy (for the economic reasons that I have
already mentioned), but it doesn't fit with your agenda, so therefore you
dismiss it. It seems that you will dismiss any evidence that shows you wrong.
Fine. I know when I'm up against a brick wall, and you are that wall.
Just as long as the other people who post here understand that your opinions
on this subject are extremely suspect and lack credibility, then it's job
done.

[Arny Krueger]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message


And as I figured, You would not accept any proof of any
kind because it goes against the your preconceived notion
about the truth.

We're not talking about "any proof" we're talking about no proof from you.

Letsee, I provide a well-documente quote from a widely respected industry
source, and you provide an anecdote from an unnamed sales rep.

Is that really the best that you can do?