[Audio Empire]

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:18:13 -0700, isw wrote
(in article ):

In article ,
Audio Empire wrote:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 05:00:29 -0700, isw wrote
(in article ):

In article ,
Audio Empire wrote:

On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 06:47:43 -0700, isw wrote
(in article ):

If you're being *that* picky, you might want to take skin effect into
account, and use nothing larger than about #18 AWG, paralleling to get
the resistance down to what you think you need.

Isaac


"Skin effect" at audio frequencies? You're joking, right?

Do the numbers. The skin depth of "ordinary" copper wire is about equal
to the radius of #18 wire at 20 kHz. Using larger diameter wire will
give you greater resistive losses at high than at low frequencies; using
smaller will give you more-or-less equal losses over the audio range.

To be sure, the differences are totally inconsequential, but so are many
other things that some people insist on spending a lot of money on in
their audio systems. If you're going to be picking nits, you should not
ignore any...

Isaac


"To be sure, the differences are totally inconsequential". BTW, I probably
(due to my cable lab experience) know more about skin effect than anyone
here, my incredulity was prompted by the very idea that someone would
actually mention skin effect in the context of a speaker wire discussion.
You
might as well bring-up the Miller effect and it's influence on amplifier
performance. It too is totally irrelevant to the user.

But not to the designer,

Sigh! Of course Miller effect is not irrelevant to a designer, that's why I
said "to the user". But it is something that is not only inconsequential to
an amplifier's end user (the amp either HAS the bandwidth required, or the
input capacitance is so high that it doesn't), it's also beyond his control.
The same with skin effect of speaker cable. It's not only inconsequential for
the user, but beyond his control as well. Must we be so pedantic?

while skin effect is inconsequential to both
camps *in the context of home audio systems*. As are a lot of other
characteristics that get thrown about in r.a.h-e.

It's called obfuscation and whether done maliciously or just to "show off",
these irrelevancies don't help people like the OP who ask for help here at
all.

Interestingly, the electrical power guys have to take skin effect into
account too, if their busbars get big enough; it begins to matter at
about 4 inches at 60 Hz, AFAIR.

Do you mean cable lab experience as in "CableLabs" in Boulder? I've had
some interaction with them...

No, I mean like the Cable Laboratory at Lockheed Missiles and Space Company,
Inc. Where I spent three years doing everything to wire and cable and
connectors that it is possible to do. We evaluated wire and cable types for
bandwidth, skin effect, insulation integrity, capacitance, inductance,
impedance at frequencies from DC to daylight. We also tested cable in a
vacuum, cable (and connectors) in a pure oxygen environment, Cable and
connectors under high acceleration, high vibration, high temperature, low
temperature etc. We tested connector contact resistance (where I learned
about Stabilant (Tweek)), connector mating frequency, and reliability, pin
contact area, hermetic integrity, etc., etc, etc., ad nauseum.