[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
If you're serious about getting your records really clean, you need a
"purpose-built" (as the Brits would say) machine, such as a Nitty-Gritty or
VPI.

Suggest you capture them with a nice preamp and some good converters.
Also think you should do this before you clean them, because any
cleaning attempt has some chance it will make them sound worse.

I have _never_ seen a proper cleaning with a vacuum machine ever make
a vinyl record sound worse.

There are cleaning issues with 78s, however. But you probably won't want
to use a vacuum machine on those anyway.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

If you're serious about getting your records really clean,
you need a "purpose-built" (as the Brits would say)
machine, such as a Nitty-Gritty or VPI.

Suggest you capture them with a nice preamp and some
good converters. Also think you should do this before you
clean them, because any cleaning attempt has some
chance it will make them sound worse.

If you're talking about LPs... I've never damaged one by cleaning, either by
hand or with a machine.

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

wrote:

If you're serious about getting your records really clean, you need a
"purpose-built" (as the Brits would say) machine, such as a Nitty-Gritty or
VPI.

Suggest you capture them with a nice preamp and some good converters.
Also think you should do this before you clean them, because any
cleaning attempt has some chance it will make them sound worse.

If you clean an old direct-cut nitrate with water, play it before it has
had a chance to dry out. The water molecules replace some of the
missing plasticiser, reducing the surface noise and distortion caused by
shrinkage and hardening of the material.

Don't leave it wet for more than 20 minutes and don't repeatedly wet and
dry it, as that will remove some of the remaining plasticiser and make
it worse.

Get everything set up and tested before tackling a nitrate disc, you may
only get one or two good plays off it in your 20-minute 'window' before
it deteriorates irrevocably.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Scott Dorsey]

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
wrote:

If you're serious about getting your records really clean, you need a
"purpose-built" (as the Brits would say) machine, such as a Nitty-Gritty or
VPI.

Suggest you capture them with a nice preamp and some good converters.
Also think you should do this before you clean them, because any
cleaning attempt has some chance it will make them sound worse.

If you clean an old direct-cut nitrate with water, play it before it has
had a chance to dry out. The water molecules replace some of the
missing plasticiser, reducing the surface noise and distortion caused by
shrinkage and hardening of the material.

I am worried that wet-playing of lacquers will cause the same microcracking
damage that wet-playing of vinyl does. Mind you, I do it often because
getting one clean transcription is often worth whatever long-term damage is
caused. I use slightly soapy water so it fills the grooves evenly.

Don't leave it wet for more than 20 minutes and don't repeatedly wet and
dry it, as that will remove some of the remaining plasticiser and make
it worse.

The nitrate plasticizer is just camphor oil. I have tried replasticizing
brittle and cracking lacquers with dilute camphor but to no real benefit.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
wrote:

If you're serious about getting your records really clean, you need a
"purpose-built" (as the Brits would say) machine, such as a
Nitty-Gritty or VPI.

Suggest you capture them with a nice preamp and some good converters.
Also think you should do this before you clean them, because any
cleaning attempt has some chance it will make them sound worse.

If you clean an old direct-cut nitrate with water, play it before it has
had a chance to dry out. The water molecules replace some of the
missing plasticiser, reducing the surface noise and distortion caused by
shrinkage and hardening of the material.

I am worried that wet-playing of lacquers will cause the same microcracking
damage that wet-playing of vinyl does. Mind you, I do it often because
getting one clean transcription is often worth whatever long-term damage is
caused. I use slightly soapy water so it fills the grooves evenly.

I use clean water with a drop of unperfumed washing-up liquid.


Don't leave it wet for more than 20 minutes and don't repeatedly wet and
dry it, as that will remove some of the remaining plasticiser and make
it worse.

The nitrate plasticizer is just camphor oil. I have tried replasticizing
brittle and cracking lacquers with dilute camphor but to no real benefit.

What did you dilute it in?

There are other plasticisers for which the water forms a temporary
substitute (I'm not a chemist, but this is what I was advised by a
chemist who regularly handles both nitrate and acetate cinematograph
films). The water bonds with some of the remaining plasticiser and
when it evaporates, it takes that plasticiser with it.

After I have been working with wet nitrate discs, I leave them in an
open rack to dry overnight. The next morning a characteristic acrid
stink hits me as I come down the stairs - it is much stronger than the
smell I get from dry nitrate discs left in the rack.



--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[William Sommerwerck]

This is not meant as criticism... Doesn't anyone know "fer shure" how to
handle acetates and nitrates?

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

This is not meant as criticism... Doesn't anyone know "fer shure" how to
handle acetates and nitrates?

Possibly there is no single 'right' answer, many different formulae have
been used over the years and there must be lots of different degradation
mechanisms (to say nothing of the types of playing damage).

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Scott Dorsey]

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The nitrate plasticizer is just camphor oil. I have tried replasticizing
brittle and cracking lacquers with dilute camphor but to no real benefit.

What did you dilute it in?

I tried a couple light petroleum solvents.... Ronsonol and VM&P Naptha,
and I also tried using water with soap added to make it miscible. Using
it full strength is no good; the lacquer turns white and soft very quickly.

There are other plasticisers for which the water forms a temporary
substitute (I'm not a chemist, but this is what I was advised by a
chemist who regularly handles both nitrate and acetate cinematograph
films). The water bonds with some of the remaining plasticiser and
when it evaporates, it takes that plasticiser with it.

After I have been working with wet nitrate discs, I leave them in an
open rack to dry overnight. The next morning a characteristic acrid
stink hits me as I come down the stairs - it is much stronger than the
smell I get from dry nitrate discs left in the rack.

I find the camphor smell of fresh blanks very pleasant... but when they
get old and the nitrate starts coming apart the smell is not so good.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
This is not meant as criticism... Doesn't anyone know "fer shure" how to
handle acetates and nitrates?

Everybody knows for sure how to handle lacquers that are in good condition
and Transco will send you a little booklet about it.

However, what to do about lacquers that are disintegrating is still up in
the air, and in part depends on whether you care about preserving them or
just getting one good clean play out of them before they are destroyed.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."