[Marco Brancalion]

Hi.

I'm trying to search and find some methods for amplifying a single
violin, in a future live situation, with me as the player.
I have next to zero experience in amplifying a violin.

The enseble will be small (4-5 people), all acoustic (and mic'd)
instruments (a guitar, an unpright, a chromatic accordion (which puts
out a serious volume)).
The genre will be a form of italian folk music, quite similar to irish
folk.

Everybody gives me the advice to use some clip-on small mics, like
Audio-Tecnica, DPA 4099V, SuperLux, etc etc .....
I, however, would prefer to use a fixed condenser mic on a stand, at
about 20-30 from the right side of the violin (i played this way 2-3
times with an AKG C3000, in the past, but not with other instruments
nearby in the stage).
And my concerns are all about bleeding from other instruments, or small
monitors.

Is there some sort of mic, or mic topology, which can be so ipercardiod
to pick mainly my violin only, but which won't force me to stand still
in a too much restricted position?
Some advices and experiences? .....

Many thanks,
greetings.

--
Marco Brancalion

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/4/2010 12:20 PM, Marco Brancalion wrote:

The enseble will be small (4-5 people), all acoustic (and mic'd)
instruments (a guitar, an unpright, a chromatic accordion (which puts
out a serious volume)).
The genre will be a form of italian folk music, quite similar to irish
folk.

Everybody gives me the advice to use some clip-on small mics, like
Audio-Tecnica, DPA 4099V, SuperLux, etc etc .....
I, however, would prefer to use a fixed condenser mic on a stand, at
about 20-30 from the right side of the violin

I assume that's 20-30 centimeters (8-12 inches) - a
reasonable distance.

With this sort of music, leakage from other instruments into
your mic isn't such a big deal, but feedback through the
monitors is. Any microphone that would be directional enough
to reject the monitor and other instruments wouldn't really
sound very good. If you feel the need to amplify, you're
really best off biting the whole bullet and using a small
clip-on mic. It doesn't sound as good as a decent large or
medium size diaphragm mic properly placed, but you're
creating a problem that you need to solve, and all in all,
that's really the best solution, unless you (and the whole
band) want to go to in-ear monitoring, and that's another
can of worms.

I applaud your desire to get a more realistic and spacious
sound from your violin mic, but you have to be practical. If
you have a sound engineer to work with you, you might
consider using a clip-on mic for the monitor and another mic
for the house sound. It can be a little tricky, though, and
will require some fooling around (and nobody moving very far
- are you seated?) in order to have more of your violin than
the monitors in the mix.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Danny T]

On Oct 4, 11:20*am, Marco Brancalion
wrote:
Hi.

I'm trying to search and find some methods for amplifying a single
violin, in a future live situation, with me as the player.
I have next to zero experience in amplifying a violin.

The enseble will be small (4-5 people), all acoustic (and mic'd)
instruments (a guitar, an unpright, a chromatic accordion (which puts
out a serious volume)).
The genre will be a form of italian folk music, quite similar to irish
folk.

Everybody gives me the advice to use some clip-on small mics, like
Audio-Tecnica, DPA 4099V, SuperLux, etc etc .....
I, however, would prefer to use a fixed condenser mic on a stand, at
about 20-30 from the right side of the violin (i played this way 2-3
times with an AKG C3000, in the past, but not with other instruments
nearby in the stage).
And my concerns are all about bleeding from other instruments, or small
monitors.

Is there some sort of mic, or mic topology, which can be so ipercardiod
to pick mainly my violin only, but which won't force me to stand still
in a too much restricted position?
Some advices and experiences? .....

Many thanks,
greetings.

--
Marco Brancalion

It doesn't sound like you'd want an electric violin which is too bad
since they are easy to use but I have used an AKG C5 with pretty good
results. I have not had feedback issues with it which is the best part
but also the sound I get seems to pretty good on stage. They are only
$199 and you can get a used one for about 110. The only draw back is
that you can't move around much. The mic is pretty directionally
tight.

[Scott Dorsey]

Everybody gives me the advice to use some clip-on small mics, like
Audio-Tecnica, DPA 4099V, SuperLux, etc etc .....
I, however, would prefer to use a fixed condenser mic on a stand, at
about 20-30 from the right side of the violin (i played this way 2-3
times with an AKG C3000, in the past, but not with other instruments
nearby in the stage).
And my concerns are all about bleeding from other instruments, or small
monitors.

Why a condenser?

RE-20 and Sennheiser 441 are both good choices. The RE-20 will have a little
more leakage than the 441, but the leakage will sound good.

Is there some sort of mic, or mic topology, which can be so ipercardiod
to pick mainly my violin only, but which won't force me to stand still
in a too much restricted position?

The variable-D pattern of the RE-20 gives you more freedom to move around
than typical cardioids and hypercardioids. And it's not shrieky up top.

The whole idea of putting a C-3000 on a close-miked fiddle makes my toes
curl up.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Marco Brancalion]

Mike Rivers wrote:

I assume that's 20-30 centimeters (8-12 inches) - a
reasonable distance.

Yes: centimeters. I forgot it.....



With this sort of music, leakage from other instruments into
your mic isn't such a big deal, but feedback through the
monitors is.

Feedback is a thing i'm worried about. Though, i don't know how much
monitoring there will be. I heard this ensemble other times, and they
were quiet......
(rehearsals are entirely in acoustic).



... If you feel the need to amplify, you're
really best off biting the whole bullet and using a small
clip-on mic.

Hm. I'm taking note .....



... but you have to be practical. If
you have a sound engineer to work with you, you might
consider using a clip-on mic for the monitor and another mic
for the house sound. It can be a little tricky, though, and
will require some fooling around (and nobody moving very far
- are you seated?) in order to have more of your violin than
the monitors in the mix.

I positive thing is that i don't believe i'll need much of my instrument
in my own monitor. But i don't really know for sure .......

I suppose i will have someone to loan me some mic, so that i can try
different solutions.......
This is why i'm taking notes of brands and models, in advices ......


Thank you.

--
Marco Brancalion

[Marco Brancalion]

Danny T wrote:

It doesn't sound like you'd want an electric violin which is too bad
since they are easy to use ....

The type of music i'll do doesn't call for "artificial" instruments....

Then, i have a wonderful "true" violin. I want to play with that
one.....



but I have used an AKG C5 with pretty good
results. I have not had feedback issues with it which is the best part
but also the sound I get seems to pretty good on stage.

I'm taking notes.
I'll try to find one, so than i can try it.


Thanks, greetings.

--
Marco Brancalion

[Marco Brancalion]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

RE-20 and Sennheiser 441 are both good choices. The RE-20 will have a
little more leakage than the 441, but the leakage will sound good.

Hmmm..... a friend of mine, i remember, has a RE 20 somewhere
around........
I didn't even consider this sort of mic.
I'll have a try.......



The whole idea of putting a C-3000 on a close-miked fiddle makes my
toes curl up.

I'm not yet enough skilled on microphones, so i ask:
why ? ......



Thanks for the reply.
Greetings.

--
Marco Brancalion

[[email protected]]

On 2010-10-04 (ScottDorsey) said:
The variable-D pattern of the RE-20 gives you more freedom to move
around than typical cardioids and hypercardioids. And it's not
shrieky up top.
WOuld agree with that.

The whole idea of putting a C-3000 on a close-miked fiddle makes my
toes curl up.
Makes me want to lose my lunch to think about it. Oooh
Yuck!!!
But then, I don't like the c-3000 for much of anything. NOt
one of my all time favorite microphones.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[DougD]

In article , IA wrote:
Hi.

I'm trying to search and find some methods for amplifying a single
violin, in a future live situation, with me as the player.
I have next to zero experience in amplifying a violin.

The enseble will be small (4-5 people), all acoustic (and mic'd)
instruments (a guitar, an unpright, a chromatic accordion (which puts
out a serious volume)).
The genre will be a form of italian folk music, quite similar to irish
folk.


I've been working FOH on a 60 show summer series this year, and had
a weekly string quartet playing every sunday evening (outdoors for avg.
2000 folks, Digico board, minimal monitors). We have a fairly large
stable of mic's to choose from, and had been loaned a pair of Rode
NT5's to try out. I've used them for drum overheads, on a full size
grand piano, amp mic's, snare, H-hat, and finally gave them a shot
on the quartet as I was not happy with the lack of low end I was getting
on the cello from our AKG's, as well as trying combo's of 421's, etc.
The Rode's worked great! No need for any eq (the Digi SD9 is
amazing that way), and the cello actually sounded like a cello, and
the violin's were just this nice transparent and open sound with
tons of gain before feedback, etc. Used them in a tight X,Y config
with the players in a semi-circle, only other mic was a Beta 58 used
only for chatting between the players/audience between songs and
it would be muted out during music. I'm not sure of cost, I was told
the Rode's were a decent price for a pair, and they also make a
fixed X,Y two capsule model that I guess would offer some advantage
if this was the only thing you were going to use them for, but they
are a good toolkit mic, rather have them seperate!
Good luck!

d.

[cedricl[_2_]]

On Oct 4, 9:20*am, Marco Brancalion
wrote:
Hi.

I'm trying to search and find some methods for amplifying a single
violin, in a future live situation, with me as the player.
I have next to zero experience in amplifying a violin.

The enseble will be small (4-5 people), all acoustic (and mic'd)
instruments (a guitar, an unpright, a chromatic accordion (which puts
out a serious volume)).
The genre will be a form of italian folk music, quite similar to irish
folk.

Everybody gives me the advice to use some clip-on small mics, like
Audio-Tecnica, DPA 4099V, SuperLux, etc etc .....
I, however, would prefer to use a fixed condenser mic on a stand, at
about 20-30 from the right side of the violin (i played this way 2-3
times with an AKG C3000, in the past, but not with other instruments
nearby in the stage).
And my concerns are all about bleeding from other instruments, or small
monitors.

Is there some sort of mic, or mic topology, which can be so ipercardiod
to pick mainly my violin only, but which won't force me to stand still
in a too much restricted position?
Some advices and experiences? .....

Many thanks,
greetings.

--
Marco Brancalion

I'm a live engineer and have had good results using an AKG460 with a
hypercardiod head on it. I had good results with a AT 4041 and the
older AKG C3000 (with switchable patterns between hyper and cardiod).
Those just happen to be the mics the theater where I work own so
you'll get a bunch of people telling you that there are better mics
but, this is my experience.

[Danny T]

On Oct 4, 3:30*pm, Marco Brancalion
wrote:
Danny T wrote:
It doesn't sound like you'd want an electric violin which is too bad
since they are easy to use ....

The type of music i'll do doesn't call for "artificial" instruments.... *

Then, i have a wonderful "true" violin. I want to play with that
one.....

but I have used an AKG C5 with pretty good
results. I have not had feedback issues with it which is the best part
but also the sound I get seems to pretty good on stage.

I'm taking notes.
I'll try to find one, so than i can try it.

Thanks, greetings.

--
Marco Brancalion

Well, I used that mice on account of I had it and I don't have a 414.
Actually, it sounded very nice on my violin. Granted someone else was
playing it and if I was playing it no mic in the world could have
helped..... Still, there was a kind of exaggerated flavor to it that
for a over rosined country sound was great.

[Marco Brancalion]

DougD wrote:

and had been loaned a pair of
Rode NT5's to try out.

Interesting......
I'll ask to some friends if they have one to loan me .....

Thanks.

--
Marco Brancalion

[Marco Brancalion]

Bill Graham wrote:

There are also stick-on mikes that can be moved to different parts of
the instrument, and combined with more than one......You have to
experiment.....I have seen good results on guitars......

I have some sort of this....... i remember it's some a model of "Shadow"
brand........

I decided not to use this approach anymore .... I don't like the
results........

--
Marco Brancalion

[Scott Dorsey]

Marco Brancalion wrote:

Hmmm..... a friend of mine, i remember, has a RE 20 somewhere
around........
I didn't even consider this sort of mic.
I'll have a try.......

Try it, you will be very, very happy with it.

The whole idea of putting a C-3000 on a close-miked fiddle makes my
toes curl up.

I'm not yet enough skilled on microphones, so i ask:
why ? ......

The C-3000 is a very harsh-sounding microphone. When you get up close to
a fiddle, the sound is unnaturally harsh because you do not have the room
to blend all the different sounds coming from different parts of the
instrument. So you have one kind of harshness on top of another kind of
harshness, and the end result is very harsh.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 18:59:37 -0400, cedricl wrote
(in article
):


I'm a live engineer and have had good results using an AKG460 with a
hypercardiod head on it. I had good results with a AT 4041 and the
older AKG C3000 (with switchable patterns between hyper and cardiod).
Those just happen to be the mics the theater where I work own so
you'll get a bunch of people telling you that there are better mics
but, this is my experience.

That sorta make sense. I'm guessing the AT 4053b would work well.

PA is different than recording. I have heard acoustic guitar sound miced by a
C1000 actually sound OK through a PA. Weird, but true. I wouldn't want to
record with it though.

If you could find an old a beyer m260 ribbon, you might enjoy that as well.

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
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