[Eno]

I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

Whilst Pro Tools seems to have some great features, I seem to have
some problem when I use them. Two in particular: fade out of a region
and elastic pitch.

I am attempting to use both of these to fix up a vocal track (yes, I
know, the musician should make the music not the engineer. The
musician is no longer available to re-record the vocal track however.)

On just a couple of lines in the song, I'd like to tweak the pitch by
perhaps 20 - 30 cents. Also, in one or two places, I'm trying to
remove an obvious breath-type sound at the end of the vocal line (one
that detracts rather than adds to the feeling.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

The same thing happens when I apply elastic pitch to a region. In just
one spot in the vocal track, a long-held not is a little flat. I
select that note, separate the selection into a new region and adjust
the elastic pitch by +20 cents. When I play the vocal again, I hear a
minor, but annoying pop.

Any ideas?

[Eno]

On Apr 23, 2:17*pm, Jason Warren wrote:
In article f8d1ed77-e5f4-45b0-a759-
,
says...

I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

Is there a DC offset present in the audio? That might
account for a pop if the fadeout module expects there to be
none.

Hi Jason,

Thanks for your reply. My apologies, but I don't know if there's a DC
offset in the the audio! DC as in direct current? The audio in
question was recorded into Pro Tools using an AKG C3000B active
condenser mic. Phantom power is supplied by the M-Audio Firewire 1814.
I don't know if this answers your question?

Thanks.

[Eno]

On Apr 23, 2:17*pm, Jason Warren wrote:
In article f8d1ed77-e5f4-45b0-a759-
,
says...

I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

Is there a DC offset present in the audio? That might
account for a pop if the fadeout module expects there to be
none.

Hello again Jason,

Apologies for my last response - I needed to do some reading about DC
offsets before I posted it really.

If I understand what I read correctly, then no, there is no DC offset
in the audio. I determined this by looking at the wave form of the
audio. It appears to be centered.

Thanks.

[Eno]

On Apr 23, 2:17*pm, Jason Warren wrote:
In article f8d1ed77-e5f4-45b0-a759-
,
says...

I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

Is there a DC offset present in the audio? That might
account for a pop if the fadeout module expects there to be
none.

Hello once again Jason,

Thank you ENORMOUSLY for helping me to sort out this problem!

You mention DC Offset and I didn't have a clue what you meant. I did
some reading. I zoomed into the region I was pitch shifting. I zoomed
RIGHT in down to the sample level. Indeed, where I had separated the
region, there was a positive DC offset. What I mean is that the wave
form was NOT on the center line where I had separated the region. I
undid the separation at both ends of the region and shift along a few
samples and re-separated the region where the wave crosses at zero
amplitude. I reapplied the elastic pitch and it works perfectly now,
no pop!

I seriously can't thank you enough! It was one of those perplexing
problems. It didn't make sense that there could be so many Pro Tools
users out there, yet the product couldn't do a fade or a pitch shift
without popping. As I suspected, the problem was with me. I am always
very keen to learn something new and this has been one of those
moments.

Thanks again!

[Eno]

On Apr 23, 12:00*pm, Eno wrote:
On Apr 23, 2:17*pm, Jason Warren wrote:

In article f8d1ed77-e5f4-45b0-a759-
,
says...

I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

Is there a DC offset present in the audio? That might
account for a pop if the fadeout module expects there to be
none.

Hello once again Jason,

Thank you ENORMOUSLY for helping me to sort out this problem!

You mention DC Offset and I didn't have a clue what you meant. I did
some reading. I zoomed into the region I was pitch shifting. I zoomed
RIGHT in down to the sample level. Indeed, where I had separated the
region, there was a positive DC offset. What I mean is that the wave
form was NOT on the center line where I had separated the region. I
undid the separation at both ends of the region and shift along a few
samples and re-separated the region where the wave crosses at zero
amplitude. I reapplied the elastic pitch and it works perfectly now,
no pop!

I seriously can't thank you enough! It was one of those perplexing
problems. It didn't make sense that there could be so many Pro Tools
users out there, yet the product couldn't do a fade or a pitch shift
without popping. As I suspected, the problem was with me. I am always
very keen to learn something new and this has been one of those
moments.

Thanks again!

Hmm, seems I rejoiced too early! Whereby this technique fixed the
elastic pitch pop, it doesn't work for the fade out on a region. I
redid the fade out and still get the pop.

I even tried to separate the region where I wanted to start the fade.
I separated, again, where the wave form crossed the center. But even
before applying any fade, when I play the audio from a little before
the fade (with the vocal track soloed) I hear a pop!

[Jason Warren]

In article f8d1ed77-e5f4-45b0-a759-
,
says...
I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)


When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

Is there a DC offset present in the audio? That might
account for a pop if the fadeout module expects there to be
none.

[Frank Stearns]

Eno writes:

I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

Whilst Pro Tools seems to have some great features, I seem to have
some problem when I use them. Two in particular: fade out of a region
and elastic pitch.

I am attempting to use both of these to fix up a vocal track (yes, I
know, the musician should make the music not the engineer. The
musician is no longer available to re-record the vocal track however.)

On just a couple of lines in the song, I'd like to tweak the pitch by
perhaps 20 - 30 cents. Also, in one or two places, I'm trying to
remove an obvious breath-type sound at the end of the vocal line (one
that detracts rather than adds to the feeling.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

The same thing happens when I apply elastic pitch to a region. In just
one spot in the vocal track, a long-held not is a little flat. I
select that note, separate the selection into a new region and adjust
the elastic pitch by +20 cents. When I play the vocal again, I hear a
minor, but annoying pop.

Something is odd; fades and cross fades usually do a great job covering many issues
at edit points.

That said, I too have had some pop issues with fades in PT 8.01CS1 that I never had
in PT7.4; there might be some kind of strange bug lurking.

But each time, these have been fixed by deleting and redoing the fade. Simply moving
the fade a little bit to find a "cleaner" point isn't the issue (the pop will happen
at the new location; besides, the program should do this kind of house keeping
anyway). The fade itself seems to be broken and deleting/redoing is the
only way to clear the problem.

This is doubly weird in that when you move the fade, the whole thing is
recalculated anyway, best I know. But nope; the best fix is to delete and do it
again.

Regarding pitch shifting: select a larger region than you need (say an added second
or two on both ends), shift that, then trim the uncorrected leading/trailing
sections back over the shifted region to where you intend the transitions. Now do
your cross fades to taste. The extra length of the underlying shift region ensures
that you have lots of manuevering room to do your cross fades into and out of the
shifted region.

Best of luck with it,
Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[Joe Mama]

On 23/04/2010 8:05 AM, Eno wrote:
I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

Whilst Pro Tools seems to have some great features, I seem to have
some problem when I use them. Two in particular: fade out of a region
and elastic pitch.

I am attempting to use both of these to fix up a vocal track (yes, I
know, the musician should make the music not the engineer. The
musician is no longer available to re-record the vocal track however.)

On just a couple of lines in the song, I'd like to tweak the pitch by
perhaps 20 - 30 cents. Also, in one or two places, I'm trying to
remove an obvious breath-type sound at the end of the vocal line (one
that detracts rather than adds to the feeling.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

The same thing happens when I apply elastic pitch to a region. In just
one spot in the vocal track, a long-held not is a little flat. I
select that note, separate the selection into a new region and adjust
the elastic pitch by +20 cents. When I play the vocal again, I hear a
minor, but annoying pop.

Any ideas?

I haven't encountered this problem wrt fades, but a workaround would be
to use volume automation (or better yet, if you know how, insert a trim
plug-in, and automate that) rather than a normal fade.

HTH,
-joe.

[Eno]

On Apr 23, 8:00*pm, Joe Mama wrote:
On 23/04/2010 8:05 AM, Eno wrote:



I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

Whilst Pro Tools seems to have some great features, I seem to have
some problem when I use them. Two in particular: fade out of a region
and elastic pitch.

I am attempting to use both of these to fix up a vocal track (yes, I
know, the musician should make the music not the engineer. The
musician is no longer available to re-record the vocal track however.)

On just a couple of lines in the song, I'd like to tweak the pitch by
perhaps 20 - 30 cents. Also, in one or two places, I'm trying to
remove an obvious breath-type sound at the end of the vocal line (one
that detracts rather than adds to the feeling.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

The same thing happens when I apply elastic pitch to a region. In just
one spot in the vocal track, a long-held not is a little flat. I
select that note, separate the selection into a new region and adjust
the elastic pitch by +20 cents. When I play the vocal again, I hear a
minor, but annoying pop.

Any ideas?

I haven't encountered this problem wrt fades, but a workaround would be
to use volume automation (or better yet, if you know how, insert a trim
plug-in, and automate that) rather than a normal fade.

HTH,
* -joe.

Hi all,

And thanks for your many responses. All very much valued, let me
assure you!

I certainly take on board the fact that the program should take care
of region separations (if in fact you even need to separate a region -
you do for elastic pitch.) Thanks for the tip about selecting a larger
area and trimming it down, great idea.

Thanks.

[Eno]

On Apr 23, 8:00*pm, Joe Mama wrote:
On 23/04/2010 8:05 AM, Eno wrote:



I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

Whilst Pro Tools seems to have some great features, I seem to have
some problem when I use them. Two in particular: fade out of a region
and elastic pitch.

I am attempting to use both of these to fix up a vocal track (yes, I
know, the musician should make the music not the engineer. The
musician is no longer available to re-record the vocal track however.)

On just a couple of lines in the song, I'd like to tweak the pitch by
perhaps 20 - 30 cents. Also, in one or two places, I'm trying to
remove an obvious breath-type sound at the end of the vocal line (one
that detracts rather than adds to the feeling.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

The same thing happens when I apply elastic pitch to a region. In just
one spot in the vocal track, a long-held not is a little flat. I
select that note, separate the selection into a new region and adjust
the elastic pitch by +20 cents. When I play the vocal again, I hear a
minor, but annoying pop.

Any ideas?

I haven't encountered this problem wrt fades, but a workaround would be
to use volume automation (or better yet, if you know how, insert a trim
plug-in, and automate that) rather than a normal fade.

HTH,
* -joe.

Hi Joe,

I was thinking about your suggestion about using volume automation. I
have thought of this, but I had two problems with this approach.
Firstly, I expected that a region fade should work properly and
without popping, in Pro Tools, and that perhaps I was doing something
wrong. Secondly, if I use volume automation, then this makes the fade
an absolute fade instead of a relative fade right? In other words,
once I automate the volume on any part of that track, the volume will
obviously 'obey' the automation. If, on further mixing, after editing
such things as fades, I decide to turn that track up or down, when I
start play back, the fader immediately returns to the automated
position, as you'd expect.

Is there a way to do a 'relative' automated fade? Much like you can do
with a MIDI track. If you automate the MIDI Volume, and not the audio
volume, then you end up with a relative fade. You can still set the
fader for that MIDI track however you like, because you haven't
automated the audio volume at this point, only the MIDI volume.

Thanks.

[Mark]

On Apr 23, 6:52*am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Eno" wrote in message



If I understand what I read correctly, then no, there is
no DC offset in the audio. I determined this by looking
at the wave form of the audio. It appears to be centered.

Looking at the wave may not be a sensitive enough test. *I don't know PT,
but I'm sure it has tools for removing DC offsets. If all else fails, high
pass filter it with a filter at some low frequency below 20 Hz.

create an EQ high pass filter (not a shelf) at 20 Hz and that will
rid you of any DC offsets.

It is easy for DC offsets to creep into the audio and I routinly high
pass each track to get rid of them..

Mark

[Cyberserf[_2_]]

On Apr 22, 5:05*pm, Eno wrote:
I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

Whilst Pro Tools seems to have some great features, I seem to have
some problem when I use them. Two in particular: fade out of a region
and elastic pitch.

I am attempting to use both of these to fix up a vocal track (yes, I
know, the musician should make the music not the engineer. The
musician is no longer available to re-record the vocal track however.)

On just a couple of lines in the song, I'd like to tweak the pitch by
perhaps 20 - 30 cents. Also, in one or two places, I'm trying to
remove an obvious breath-type sound at the end of the vocal line (one
that detracts rather than adds to the feeling.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

The same thing happens when I apply elastic pitch to a region. In just
one spot in the vocal track, a long-held not is a little flat. I
select that note, separate the selection into a new region and adjust
the elastic pitch by +20 cents. When I play the vocal again, I hear a
minor, but annoying pop.

Any ideas?

You might try setting the crossfade default to "snap audio to zero
crossing point".

HTH, CS

[Eno]

On Apr 23, 10:05*am, Eno wrote:
I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

Whilst Pro Tools seems to have some great features, I seem to have
some problem when I use them. Two in particular: fade out of a region
and elastic pitch.

I am attempting to use both of these to fix up a vocal track (yes, I
know, the musician should make the music not the engineer. The
musician is no longer available to re-record the vocal track however.)

On just a couple of lines in the song, I'd like to tweak the pitch by
perhaps 20 - 30 cents. Also, in one or two places, I'm trying to
remove an obvious breath-type sound at the end of the vocal line (one
that detracts rather than adds to the feeling.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

The same thing happens when I apply elastic pitch to a region. In just
one spot in the vocal track, a long-held not is a little flat. I
select that note, separate the selection into a new region and adjust
the elastic pitch by +20 cents. When I play the vocal again, I hear a
minor, but annoying pop.

Any ideas?

Okay, again thanks for the very valuable replies. I have worked out
what was causing the pop and I wanted to share it here.

The region where I applied the fade also has elastic processing warp
markers in it.

If I disable elastic audio for that region and apply the fade out,
then no pop occurs.

I re-enabled elastic audio and again, no pop occurs. I then reapply
just one warp marker and shift the audio. A pop now occurs as the fade
begins.

I changed the elastic audio algorithm from polyphonic to rhythmic and
the pop disappears!

In summary, there seems to be some issue around inserting warp markers
and then fading that region, when the elastic audio algorithm is set
to Polyphonic. Or, maybe not an issue exactly. Perhaps artifacts are
introduced by inserting a warp marker and moving the timing of the
audio in this particular instance, with this particular algorithm? I
fear I'll never know...

[Eno]

On Apr 23, 10:05*am, Eno wrote:
I am running Pro Tools 8.01 M-powered (M-Audio Firewire 1814.)

Whilst Pro Tools seems to have some great features, I seem to have
some problem when I use them. Two in particular: fade out of a region
and elastic pitch.

I am attempting to use both of these to fix up a vocal track (yes, I
know, the musician should make the music not the engineer. The
musician is no longer available to re-record the vocal track however.)

On just a couple of lines in the song, I'd like to tweak the pitch by
perhaps 20 - 30 cents. Also, in one or two places, I'm trying to
remove an obvious breath-type sound at the end of the vocal line (one
that detracts rather than adds to the feeling.)

When I apply a fade-out on the region in question, I now get a subtle,
but audible pop as the fade-out begins. I can't get rid of it, apart
from removing the fade. I have tried different kinds of fades,
different lengths of fades, all kinds of things, but it makes no
difference.

The same thing happens when I apply elastic pitch to a region. In just
one spot in the vocal track, a long-held not is a little flat. I
select that note, separate the selection into a new region and adjust
the elastic pitch by +20 cents. When I play the vocal again, I hear a
minor, but annoying pop.

Any ideas?

Now that I've worked out the relationship between the fade pop and
elastic audio, I read the Pro Tools reference guide with regard to
elastic audio algorithms. I've experimented with all the algorithms
and the best one for vocals, as the manual suggests, is Monophonic. No
more pops! Great!

I have certainly learned something!

[Joe Mama]

On 23/04/2010 7:07 PM, Eno wrote:
On Apr 23, 8:00 pm, Joe wrote:

I haven't encountered this problem wrt fades, but a workaround would be
to use volume automation (or better yet, if you know how, insert a trim
plug-in, and automate that) rather than a normal fade.

HTH,
-joe.

Hi Joe,

I was thinking about your suggestion about using volume automation. I
have thought of this, but I had two problems with this approach.
Firstly, I expected that a region fade should work properly and
without popping, in Pro Tools, and that perhaps I was doing something
wrong. Secondly, if I use volume automation, then this makes the fade
an absolute fade instead of a relative fade right? In other words,
once I automate the volume on any part of that track, the volume will
obviously 'obey' the automation. If, on further mixing, after editing
such things as fades, I decide to turn that track up or down, when I
start play back, the fader immediately returns to the automated
position, as you'd expect.

Firstly, yes, it /should/ just work - what I suggested is only a
workaround. As I said, I've never encountered this particular problem
(in my 15 or so years' experience with PT), so I don't really have much
to offer there.

Your other assumption is correct though, which is why I suggested the
trim approach.

Is there a way to do a 'relative' automated fade? Much like you can do
with a MIDI track. If you automate the MIDI Volume, and not the audio
volume, then you end up with a relative fade. You can still set the
fader for that MIDI track however you like, because you haven't
automated the audio volume at this point, only the MIDI volume.

That would be what automating the trim plug-in would effectively do, yes.

HTH,
-joe.