[Keith G[_2_]]

"Richard Lamont" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"Richard Lamont" wrote


The sound is supposed to come in a straight line from the speaker,
through the air, to your lugholes. It is not supposed to go via some
random scenic route involving whatever your loudspeaker is parked on.

Therefore your speakers should not be mechanically coupled to anything.
They should be mechanically isolated. Spikes are audiophool nonsense.

What you need is a nice thick sheet of neoprene rubber instead. Then the
sound will come from your speakers and not from whichever bits of your
building happen to radiate the coupled vibration. If you have carpet and
underlay then the neoprene probably isn't necessary.

I think you are missing the point entirely - the purpose of the spikes
on speakers it to enable them to be pushed through a carpet or any other
squidgy floorcovering (like you are recommending) to enable the speaker
to be coupled directly to the floor underneath and remove/reduce the
ability of the speaker to move in reaction (recoil) to the cone
movements which some claim 'blurs/renders less accurate' the created
sound.

As the mass of the cone is so much less than the mass of the speaker
cabinet as a whole, this is surely idiotic. Besides, any such reaction
will also occur during manufacturer's testing and will therefore be
taken into account at the design stage.


You snipped the best bit:

"The usual comment is 'tighten up the bass' (treble not affected) and I
wouldn't argue with it, but I think the speaker's mass has a lot to do with
it irrespective of the floorcovering and is why I posted my comment about WW
Greener's formula...."

Note the 'I wouldn't argue with it' bit!

Try it yourself is all I can say - and post the results here.

FWIW, I have 6 pairs of speakers on the go here and only one of them is
spiked - and that pair is on stands which are filled with lead shot and
which have spikes through to the concrete floor (three of them each -
triangular). Here's a quick snap:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Triangular.jpg

(I have still not yet got round to sticking the speakers down with Blu Tack
after some six months!! :-)

[Richard Lamont]

Keith G wrote:

You snipped the best bit:

"The usual comment is 'tighten up the bass' (treble not affected) and I
wouldn't argue with it, but I think the speaker's mass has a lot to do with
it irrespective of the floorcovering and is why I posted my comment
about WW
Greener's formula...."

Note the 'I wouldn't argue with it' bit!

Try it yourself is all I can say - and post the results here.

Right. I'll add it to my 'to try' list:

1. Astrology
2. Magic healing crystals
3. Green CD marker
4. Homeopathy
5. Speaker spikes

(It might be a while.)

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Triangular.jpg

Is that grey amp a Gerry Wells special?


--
Richard Lamont http://www.lamont.me.uk/

OpenPGP Key ID: 0xBD89BE41
Fingerprint: CE78 C285 1F97 0BDA 886D BA78 26D8 6C34 BD89 BE41

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Richard Lamont" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

You snipped the best bit:

"The usual comment is 'tighten up the bass' (treble not affected) and I
wouldn't argue with it, but I think the speaker's mass has a lot to do
with
it irrespective of the floorcovering and is why I posted my comment
about WW
Greener's formula...."

Note the 'I wouldn't argue with it' bit!

Try it yourself is all I can say - and post the results here.

Right. I'll add it to my 'to try' list:



Good fellow - too many *theorists* here....



1. Astrology
2. Magic healing crystals
3. Green CD marker
4. Homeopathy
5. Speaker spikes

(It might be a while.)


So move it up the list.....



http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Triangular.jpg

Is that grey amp a Gerry Wells special?


No, it's a 'Keith Garratt probably not too special' - but I like it!!

;-)

Better pic he

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...Fandothers.JPG

(Different pix taken of different kit at different times - when I wuz
*trying stuff out* for myself!! ;-)

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Keith G" wrote


Better pic he

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...Fandothers.JPG

(Different pix taken of different kit at different times - when I wuz
*trying stuff out* for myself!! ;-)


Actually that pic has much to tell:

Note the record deck sits (without suspension) in a massive plinth made from
kitchen worktop offcuts and sits on a two inch thick 'grano' paving slab
(painted black) on firm, rubber 'doorstop' feet. The 'hifi stand' with the
extra weight in it (valve amp and large SS power amp) is pretty firmly stuck
to the ground (concrete floor under weedy/cheapskate bedroom carpet) and I
can quite definitely say the sound from that deck has *by far* the best bass
and pin sharp clarity I have ever heard from any turntable!

(That said, the other tt I use atm is a simple Technics deck with 'squidgy
suspension' built-in and I like that one just as much!)

Note also the weight on top of the speaker cabinets - have a friend who
stacks books on top of his speakers to eradicate cabinet resonances and will
try to find a pic (I know I've got one somewhere), but whether or not that
really wotks isn't important: my reason for heaping things on top of
speakers is simply lack of space and the speaker tops are* somewhere handy
to put stuff!!


*were - I've thinned down a lot now!

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Keith G" wrote


Note also the weight on top of the speaker cabinets - have a friend who
stacks books on top of his speakers to eradicate cabinet resonances and
will try to find a pic (I know I've got one somewhere),


OK, that wasn't actually too hard:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/0002.JPG

Incidentally, those speakers are a pair of Cyburg's Needles I built and sent
to him over in Brussels. He loves them, but they ain't ever gonna sound any
good out in the room like in the pic - contrary to what someone said here
recently, they need to be flat back against a wall or other large, flat
surface for bass reinforcement....

.....when they will sound incredibly good with a crystal clear yet rich 'full
sound' which totally belies the little 2 inch, cheapo 'car speaker' Viston
drive units!!

(I got a pair here in constant use on this computer and the radio and they
are superb - people look for the subwoofer!! :-)

But enough of that - that's history now...

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:59:17 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Note the record deck sits (without suspension) in a massive plinth made from
kitchen worktop offcuts and sits on a two inch thick 'grano' paving slab
(painted black) on firm, rubber 'doorstop' feet. The 'hifi stand' with the
extra weight in it (valve amp and large SS power amp) is pretty firmly stuck
to the ground (concrete floor under weedy/cheapskate bedroom carpet) and I
can quite definitely say the sound from that deck has *by far* the best bass
and pin sharp clarity I have ever heard from any turntable!

(That said, the other tt I use atm is a simple Technics deck with 'squidgy
suspension' built-in and I like that one just as much!)

So what characteristics does the Technics have to compensate for its
*by far* inferior bass and clarity?

One deck is close to a speaker, another is actually on top of one! Of
course THOSE decks never feed THAT speaker?

Are the speakers you actually listen to cramped against walls and
other equipment in that way? Do they sound different/better given a
bit more space to work in?

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:59:17 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Note the record deck sits (without suspension) in a massive plinth made
from
kitchen worktop offcuts and sits on a two inch thick 'grano' paving slab
(painted black) on firm, rubber 'doorstop' feet. The 'hifi stand' with the
extra weight in it (valve amp and large SS power amp) is pretty firmly
stuck
to the ground (concrete floor under weedy/cheapskate bedroom carpet) and I
can quite definitely say the sound from that deck has *by far* the best
bass
and pin sharp clarity I have ever heard from any turntable!

(That said, the other tt I use atm is a simple Technics deck with 'squidgy
suspension' built-in and I like that one just as much!)

So what characteristics does the Technics have to compensate for its
*by far* inferior bass and clarity?


Here's a little 'furry' pic of it (I'm into handheld/low-light MF atm):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Technics.JPG

Anyway, no idea - the AT moving coil cart probably helps...??



One deck is close to a speaker, another is actually on top of one! Of
course THOSE decks never feed THAT speaker?


Calm down, dear!

I have used decks parked on speakers before now but the deck in that pic was
just parked up. Trust me, I do like (very much) the sound I get from my
kit - or it'd be a damn sight different to wot it is, but I think you need
to free your mind off from a load of 'audiophile/anti-audiophile' prejudice
and misconceptions...



Are the speakers you actually listen to cramped against walls and
other equipment in that way? Do they sound different/better given a
bit more space to work in?


So many questions! I bet you drove your parents mad when you were a kid!

I've lost track, if the speakers you refer to are the ones with the IMF in,
they're history - the speakers I've got and use atm are crammed in but not
against the wall and sound absolutely fine to me; whether you or anyone else
would agree is another thing, but that's not really germane....

Tell me summat, have you ever been in a secondhand record shop and asked the
owner to 'put a record on' to try it? They invariably have utterly mediocre
kit - 'mid-fi' Technics decks and amps; speakers with no name on - and the
sound is usually quite *exquisite*!! Similarly, the more junk and clutter in
my room, the better the sound, I find!!

(I remember once I got someone to listen with his eyes shut while I slowly
rotated one speaker until it was facing the wall - he had no idea what was
going on and said the sound was unaffected throughout!! ;-)

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:07:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

(I remember once I got someone to listen with his eyes shut while I slowly
rotated one speaker until it was facing the wall - he had no idea what was
going on and said the sound was unaffected throughout!! ;-)

Yes, the Critical Distance for a given room/speaker combination is
often closer than you think! In PA applications sometimes it's
practically impossible to place the audience inside it.

Where's your hi-fi listening "sweet spot" in relation to the CD? In
any given room, the same for all speakers or not? When recording, I'm
used to monitoring well inside, but checking a mix from WAY outside -
like in the next room with the door shut!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Note also the weight on top of the speaker cabinets - have a friend who
stacks books on top of his speakers to eradicate cabinet resonances and
will try to find a pic (I know I've got one somewhere), but whether or
not that really wotks isn't important: my reason for heaping things on
top of speakers is simply lack of space and the speaker tops are*
somewhere handy to put stuff!!

Since it's impossible to make a totally rigid speaker cabinet some makers
take into account any 'output' from the cabinet itself. Think the first to
do this was the Spendor BC1. Which was designed to be mounted on an open
stand about 9" high. Adding mass to the cabinet - like putting books on
top - would negate the design theory.

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Note also the weight on top of the speaker cabinets - have a friend who
stacks books on top of his speakers to eradicate cabinet resonances and
will try to find a pic (I know I've got one somewhere), but whether or
not that really wotks isn't important: my reason for heaping things on
top of speakers is simply lack of space and the speaker tops are*
somewhere handy to put stuff!!

Since it's impossible to make a totally rigid speaker cabinet some makers
take into account any 'output' from the cabinet itself. Think the first to
do this was the Spendor BC1. Which was designed to be mounted on an open
stand about 9" high. Adding mass to the cabinet - like putting books on
top - would negate the design theory.


The Rogers 'BBC Studio Monitors' I had here a while back were
'thinwall/resonating' types and sounded very good indeed, apart from the
rasping bass unit I couldn't cure - without spending a lot of money and
maybe changing the speakers characteristics too much, in any case....

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Since it's impossible to make a totally rigid speaker cabinet some
makers take into account any 'output' from the cabinet itself. Think
the first to do this was the Spendor BC1. Which was designed to be
mounted on an open stand about 9" high. Adding mass to the cabinet -
like putting books on top - would negate the design theory.


The Rogers 'BBC Studio Monitors' I had here a while back were
'thinwall/resonating' types and sounded very good indeed,

Probably the same family as the BC1 - from an original BBC design study.

apart from the
rasping bass unit I couldn't cure - without spending a lot of money and
maybe changing the speakers characteristics too much, in any case....

I suppose you tried inverting the driver?

--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[news.zen.co.uk]

Evening all,

"Richard Lamont" wrote in message
...

Right. I'll add it to my 'to try' list:

1. Astrology
2. Magic healing crystals
3. Green CD marker

It might have started as an April Fool's joke, but Green CD markers actually
work. I tried one on one of my CDs, and in a level matched, controlled DBT
all participants agreed that the edge of the CD is now green.

Regards,
Glenn.

[Keith G[_2_]]

"news.zen.co.uk" wrote in message
...
Evening all,

"Richard Lamont" wrote in message
...

Right. I'll add it to my 'to try' list:

1. Astrology
2. Magic healing crystals
3. Green CD marker

It might have started as an April Fool's joke, but Green CD markers
actually work. I tried one on one of my CDs, and in a level matched,
controlled DBT all participants agreed that the edge of the CD is now
green.

Regards,
Glenn.


Mystified....

If the test was 'blind' how could the participants see the 'green edge'...??

[UnsteadyKen[_4_]]

In article ,
says...
Here's a quick snap:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Triangular.jpg

I see we shared the same taste in upmarket equipment racks and
meticulous wiring practice.

[UnsteadyKen[_4_]]

oopths

http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/mycrap.JPG

[Meindert Sprang]

"UnsteadyKen" wrote in message
...




oopths

http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/mycrap.JPG

The brandname "IKEA" springs to mind....

Meindert

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Meindert Sprang wrote:
"UnsteadyKen" wrote in message
...




oopths

http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/mycrap.JPG

The brandname "IKEA" springs to mind....

Some judicious use of trunking wouldn't go amiss. ;-)

--
*How do they get the deer to cross at that yellow road sign?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[UnsteadyKen[_4_]]

Dave Plowman (News) says...

Some judicious use of trunking wouldn't go amiss. ;-)

I tried that and cable tidies and ending up pulling my hair out when I
changed anything.

It photographs worse than it looks, sort of. We have so many sources
now, bring back the good old days. Connect up the turntable, tuner and
cassette deck and wonder what on earth the Aux socket could be used for.
Now I have 4 switch boxes.

--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:41:51 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/mycrap.JPG

The brandname "IKEA" springs to mind....

Actually, one of those cheap Ikea wooden shelving units could probably
do a neater job. And wood's always nicer to look at. Or are those
"magic" shelves?

[Meindert Sprang]

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:41:51 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/mycrap.JPG

The brandname "IKEA" springs to mind....

Actually, one of those cheap Ikea wooden shelving units could probably
do a neater job. And wood's always nicer to look at. Or are those
"magic" shelves?

Yeah, probably plated with non-magnetostrictive chrome...

Meindert

[UnsteadyKen[_4_]]

Laurence Payne says...

Actually, one of those cheap Ikea wooden shelving units could probably
do a neater job. And wood's always nicer to look at. Or are those
"magic" shelves?

Ikea! Heavens man, do you think I've won the lottery?

Economy before neatness is my motto.
They are unbranded flat pack kitchen racks from my usual audiophile
supplier
http://www.tjmorris.co.uk/
"magic" for the price 12 quid each, sturdy, adjustable shelf spacing and
lightweight.


--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

[GregS[_3_]]

In article , "Meindert Sprang" wrote:
"UnsteadyKen" wrote in message
...




oopths

http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/mycrap.JPG

The brandname "IKEA" springs to mind....


Hey, I got one of those. Its really nice. I had a 31 inch crt tv on it.
Heavy !!

greg

[Keith G[_2_]]

"UnsteadyKen" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
says...
Here's a quick snap:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Triangular.jpg

I see we shared the same taste in upmarket equipment racks and
meticulous wiring practice.





:-)

I've got a number of these racks - they were cheap as chips from Argos and
they're very strong!

(They figure in every shot of a kitchen I've seen lately and I've even seen
them posing as 'fixtures' in a submarine in some tossy film!!)