[Danny T]

I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
worse, more of this sound or that. I can see that one is made better
then the other and will last longer but as for the actual sound being
better, I don't hear it much anymore.

I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
years of rock and roll bands.

Since I took care of my ears as much as I could and most people run
around with a 200dB speaker system in the back seat of their car I'm
thinking what's the point of worrying about the good gear anymore and
investing more in my fishing pole collection :-)

[William Sommerwerck]

I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
worse, more of this sound or that. I can see that one is made better
then the other and will last longer but as for the actual sound being
better, I don't hear it much anymore.

It's hard to say. Over the past decade or so, "cheap" loudspeakers (those
under $200 a pair) have greatly improved in quality.

However...

I have Apogee planar speakers, which are more than 15 years old, and I
guarantee you that there is huge difference in sound quality between them
and modestly priced speakers. It's not that the modest speakers are "bad".
Rather, the Apogees are awfully good.

So... either your hearing has declined, or the expensive stuff you're
auditioning isn't very good. (And such stuff exists.)

It might also be that, if you're listening to recordings that bear no
relationship to live sound, the "better" speakers offer no meaningful
improvement.

[Ethan Winer[_3_]]

On May 22, 9:33 am, Danny T wrote:
I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
years of rock and roll bands.

Yes, these days most "gear" is audibly transparent. Maybe not speakers
and microphones - though they too have improved enormously - but
definitely preamps and power amps and A/D/A converters. Inexpensive
prosumer grade gear is never the limiting factor when someone is
unhappy with the quality of their recordings.

--Ethan

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Fri, 22 May 2009 09:39:17 -0700 (PDT), Ethan Winer
wrote:

On May 22, 9:33 am, Danny T wrote:
I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
years of rock and roll bands.

Yes, these days most "gear" is audibly transparent. Maybe not speakers
and microphones - though they too have improved enormously - but
definitely preamps and power amps and A/D/A converters. Inexpensive
prosumer grade gear is never the limiting factor when someone is
unhappy with the quality of their recordings.

Also, I'd bet that after one kind of toys for big boys gets
good enough to do the job, we big boys move on to a new toy
set - fishing poles? anyone?

Or L. C. Smith shotguns, or Indian motorcycles, or Cowboy
Action Shooting (Toy Heaven for boomers) or....

But toys make the world go round; don't know how to get
too old for 'em, so I don't try. It's how we boys discover
the world.


Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

[Danny T]

On May 22, 4:02*pm, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:
On Fri, 22 May 2009 09:39:17 -0700 (PDT), Ethan Winer

wrote:
On May 22, 9:33 am, Danny T wrote:
I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
years of rock and roll bands.

Yes, these days most "gear" is audibly transparent. Maybe not speakers
and microphones - though they too have improved enormously - but
definitely preamps and power amps and A/D/A converters. Inexpensive
prosumer grade gear is never the limiting factor when someone is
unhappy with the quality of their recordings.

Also, I'd bet that after one kind of toys for big boys gets
good enough to do the job, we big boys move on to a new toy
set - fishing poles? anyone?

Or L. C. Smith shotguns, or Indian motorcycles, or Cowboy
Action Shooting (Toy Heaven for boomers) or....

But toys make the world go round; don't know how to get
too old for 'em, so I don't try. It's how we boys discover
the world.

Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

Well that is about what I'm thinking. I don't really feel the need for
a wall of avalon gear when I can have something cheap to do about the
same thing and park a nicer boat under my butt with a nice new Penn
real in my hand. I do know that I can taste the difference in beer so
I might as well convert my needs :-)

With most of the paying consumers downloading MP3's I'm getting less
and less inclined to worry about the specs of the recordings I make.

[Mike Rivers]

Danny T wrote:
I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
worse,

Your ears aren't lying. The differences between cheap gear and great
gear are getting smaller. There's something to gear that just feels and
looks better, and it usually will last longer. It's a worthwhile investment
if it's something that you're likely to be using for a long time, but
so much of our gear becomes obsolete so quickly that if cheaper
gets you what you need at the moment, it's hard to argue for the
top shelf brands.

It's harder to make a good speaker or microphone cheaply, and there
are certain things about an expensive mixer or mic preamp like a well
made transformer that adds a certain sound that you just can't get
out of a cheap solid state functional equivalent, but I'm not ashamed
to use Mackie mixers these days as long as they have all the controls,
inputs, and outputs that I need.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Danny T]

On May 22, 5:50*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
Danny T wrote:
I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
worse,

Your ears aren't lying. The differences between cheap gear and great
gear are getting smaller. There's something to gear that just feels and
looks better, and it usually will last longer. It's a worthwhile investment
if it's something that you're likely to be using for a long time, but
so much of our gear becomes obsolete so quickly that if cheaper
gets you what you need at the moment, it's hard to argue for the
top shelf brands.

It's harder to make a good speaker or microphone cheaply, and there
are certain things about an expensive mixer or mic preamp like a well
made transformer that adds a certain sound that you just can't get
out of a cheap solid state functional equivalent, but I'm not ashamed
to use Mackie mixers these days as long as they have all the controls,
inputs, and outputs that I need.

--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

On microphones, I've seen some really cheap ones sound really great.
Maybe what I think is cheap isn't so cheap but $200 for a RODE or some
of those MXL mic's for $100? I'm old enough when I remember the only
choice was a lot more then I had to spend.

[[email protected]]

If you're listening to today's overcompressed loudness-wars CDs,
the better equipment might actually sound worse.

Danny T wrote:
: I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
: the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
: difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
: worse, more of this sound or that. I can see that one is made better
: then the other and will last longer but as for the actual sound being
: better, I don't hear it much anymore.

: I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
: ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
: years of rock and roll bands.

: Since I took care of my ears as much as I could and most people run
: around with a 200dB speaker system in the back seat of their car I'm
: thinking what's the point of worrying about the good gear anymore and
: investing more in my fishing pole collection :-)

[Danny T]

On May 23, 10:23*am, wrote:
If you're listening to today's overcompressed loudness-wars CDs,
the better equipment might actually sound worse.

Danny T wrote:

: I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
: the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
: difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
: worse, more of this sound or that. I can see that one is made better
: then the other and will last longer but as for the actual sound being
: better, I don't hear it much anymore.

: I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
: ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
: years of rock and roll bands.

: Since I took care of my ears as much as I could and most people run
: around with a 200dB speaker system in the back seat of their car I'm
: thinking what's the point of worrying about the good gear anymore and
: investing more in my fishing pole collection :-)

I'm a -12dB or greater kind of producer! If you listen to that kind of
stuff, you're going deaf a lot faster then I am for sure

[blackburst]

On May 22, 9:33*am, Danny T wrote:
I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
worse, more of this sound or that. I can see that one is made better
then the other and will last longer but as for the actual sound being
better, I don't hear it much anymore.

I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
years of rock and roll bands.

The bar keeps rising.

With the exception of MP3, audio equipment has just gotten better and
better.

On the other hand, watch out for your ears. I have to keep asking
people to repeat things. Bad sign.

[Danny T]

On May 23, 8:54*pm, blackburst wrote:
On May 22, 9:33*am, Danny T wrote:

I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
worse, more of this sound or that. I can see that one is made better
then the other and will last longer but as for the actual sound being
better, I don't hear it much anymore.

I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
years of rock and roll bands.

The bar keeps rising.

With the exception of MP3, audio equipment has just gotten better and
better.

On the other hand, watch out for your ears. I have to keep asking
people to repeat things. Bad sign.

What? :-)

[The MAN]

On May 22, 6:33*am, Danny T wrote:
I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
worse, more of this sound or that. I can see that one is made better
then the other and will last longer but as for the actual sound being
better, I don't hear it much anymore.

I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
years of rock and roll bands.

Since I took care of my ears as much as I could and most people run
around with a 200dB speaker system in the back seat of their car I'm
thinking what's the point of worrying about the good gear anymore and
investing more in my fishing pole collection :-)


Everything is improving, no doubt.

Consider that in many countries, people went from
having no phone lines at all, to cellular phone service.

And as other people have pointed out, the lowly MP3
is apparently good enough for the average listener.

But if you still feel you need a Ferrari to go to a grocery
store, and you can afford it, by all means......

[Danny T]

On May 24, 5:43*am, The MAN wrote:
On May 22, 6:33*am, Danny T wrote:

I've noticed that I don't notice much difference in "quality" between
the cheap gear and the expensive stuff these days. I can hear a
difference but what I hear is not necessarily a matter of better or
worse, more of this sound or that. I can see that one is made better
then the other and will last longer but as for the actual sound being
better, I don't hear it much anymore.

I'm wondering if stuff is just so good that its beyond the point of my
ears catching the subtleties or if my ears are just worn out from 40
years of rock and roll bands.

Since I took care of my ears as much as I could and most people run
around with a 200dB speaker system in the back seat of their car I'm
thinking what's the point of worrying about the good gear anymore and
investing more in my fishing pole collection :-)

* * * *Everything is improving, no doubt.

* * * *Consider that in many countries, people went from
having no phone lines at all, to cellular phone service.

* * * *And as other people have pointed out, the lowly MP3
is apparently good enough for the average listener.

* * * * But if you still feel you need a Ferrari to go to a grocery
store, and you can afford it, by all means......

I LOVE this analogy! If that doesn't end up in a song I'll be
surprised.

[[email protected]]

Danny T wrote:
: On May 23, 10:23?am, wrote:
: If you're listening to today's overcompressed loudness-wars CDs,
: the better equipment might actually sound worse.
: I'm a -12dB or greater kind of producer! If you listen to that kind of
: stuff, you're going deaf a lot faster then I am for sure

The problem is, it doesn't even have to be loud music anymore.
Most mastering houses will automatically maximize everything
these days. I have chamber jazz CDs that are squashed to distortion.

[Danny T]

On May 24, 10:50*am, wrote:
Danny T wrote:

: On May 23, 10:23?am, wrote:
: If you're listening to today's overcompressed loudness-wars CDs,
: the better equipment might actually sound worse.
: I'm a -12dB or greater kind of producer! If you listen to that kind of
: stuff, you're going deaf a lot faster then I am for sure

The problem is, it doesn't even have to be loud music anymore.
Most mastering houses will automatically maximize everything
these days. *I have chamber jazz CDs that are squashed to distortion.

That's what I was referring to. I don't know the statistics but goes
sort of like the average volume of an album back in 1970's was -22 dB
1980's was -12, 90's 6 and not its 0dB. I meant that I leave dynamics
in my mixes and I don't squash things.

OI have a multi compressor plug in that at first listen sounds great
when you apply it but later you feel fatigued when you listen to the
tune. The older I get the more I realize how important it is to leave
things alone and just let it be.

[[email protected]]

On 2009-05-24 said:
: If you're listening to today's overcompressed loudness-wars CDs,
: the better equipment might actually sound worse.
: I'm a -12dB or greater kind of producer! If you listen to that
kind of : stuff, you're going deaf a lot faster then I am for sure

The problem is, it doesn't even have to be loud music anymore.
Most mastering houses will automatically maximize everything
these days. I have chamber jazz CDs that are squashed to
distortion.

sOunds like you need to use a different mastering house, or
be present at the mastering sessions. I"d start doing some
serious shopping.

regards,



Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--- Benjamin Franklin, NOvember 1755 from the
Historical review of Pennsylvania

[[email protected]]

Mike wrote:

Your ears aren't lying. The differences between cheap gear and great
gear are getting smaller. There's something to gear that just feels and
looks better, and it usually will last longer.


Another difference is that cheap gear craps out in a different way -
often an ugly one. They have to cut corners somewhere, and power
headroom is a favorite spot. And what about extreme settings: with
not so cheap gear, you can twist knobs over 90 degrees without being
punished.


Chris