[Serge Auckland[_2_]]

"codifus" wrote in message
...
On Mar 4, 10:14 pm, Sonnova wrote:

I've tried it on a number of different speakers, heard no difference.

Did you try it with different types of music? Like I pointed out
earlier, it's the types of music that will more likely bring out bi-
wiring's advantages. I've seen your posts and noticed that your taste
in music tend to be classical and that you aren't keen on studio
recordings.

Well, IMO a studio recording has the tendency to more fully test the
instantaneous dynamic capability of an audio system than a classical
recording ever will. Classical music doesn't invoke the short term
dynamic that bi-wiring brings out.

I like all types of music; live, studio, classical, hip-hop, reggae
etc. Different types of music can make certain capabilities of a
system more readily apparent than other types.

CD.

But bi-wiring can't make a difference as the laws of physics don't allow it.
So, any ideas that different types of music will show up different
capabilities is pure fantasy.

If you really believe that you can hear bi-wiring making a difference, can
you please suggest a mechanism by which this could be? Please suggest a
hypothesis that can be tested. Please suggest some tests by which we can
verify independently what you suggest is the case. Otherwise, it's just
opinion, with no basis in reality.

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[Codifus]

On Mar 5, 3:17*pm, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:
"codifus" wrote in message

...

On Mar 4, 10:14 pm, Sonnova wrote:

I've tried it on a number of different speakers, heard no difference.

Did you try it with different types of music? Like I pointed out
earlier, it's the types of music that will more likely bring out bi-
wiring's advantages. I've seen your posts and noticed that your taste
in music tend to be classical and that you aren't keen on studio
recordings.

Well, IMO a studio recording has the tendency to more fully test the
instantaneous dynamic capability of an audio system than a classical
recording ever will. Classical music doesn't invoke the short term
dynamic that bi-wiring brings out.

I like all types of music; live, studio, classical, hip-hop, reggae
etc. Different types of music can make certain capabilities of a
system more readily apparent than other types.

CD.

But bi-wiring can't make a difference as the laws of physics don't allow it.
So, any ideas that different types of music will show up different
capabilities is pure fantasy.

Really? OK. So, every capacitor, inductor, resistor etc in an
electrical circuit behaves perfectly, as defined by the laws of
physics? No, of course not. Capacitors have resistance, inductors have
capicatance and so forth. It goes to follow that circuits built from
these imperfect components won't behave perfectly, just more or less
perfectly. ------Quite oxymoronic, that last statement, don't you
think?

You resort to the laws of physics which is fine for a textbook case,
which this isn't.

If you really believe that you can hear bi-wiring making a difference, can
you please suggest a mechanism by which this could be? Please suggest a
hypothesis that can be tested. Please suggest some tests by which we can
verify independently what you suggest is the case. Otherwise, it's just
opinion, with no basis in reality.

I don't recall ever saying it was fact. Just that I observed it, and
believe it. As for tests, I did suggests types of music which would
make the effects of bi-wiring more apparent.

I can't give you everything you want EXACTLY as you want it, but I
sure did try.


S.
--http://audiopages.googlepages.com


CD

[[email protected]]

On Mar 5, 6:07*pm, codifus wrote:
On Mar 5, 3:17*pm, "Serge Auckland"
But bi-wiring can't make a difference as the laws
of physics don't allow it.
So, any ideas that different types of music will show up different
capabilities is pure fantasy.

Really? OK. So, every capacitor, inductor, resistor
etc in an electrical circuit behaves perfectly, as
defined by the laws of physics? No, of course not.

Sorry, the most assuredly are.

Capacitors have resistance, inductors have
capicatance and so forth.

All of which are very well understood and work
perfectly fine within the laws of physics. Can you
explain your rather absurd claim they don't?

It goes to follow that circuits built from these
imperfect components won't behave perfectly,
just more or less perfectly.

And EXTREMELY predictably, I would add.

You resort to the laws of physics which is fine
for a textbook case, which this isn't.

Nonsense.

Where on earth do you come up with the absurd notion
that non-ideal components are exempt from the laws of
physics, which is, in essence, what you claim?

In fact, non-ideal components follow physics quite
nicely and, in fact, are QUITE well understood
exactly in the context of physics. The fact that
YOU might not understand this is not a situation
that can be extrapolated to the rest of the world,
fortunately.

Every reasonable physics textbook I've come
across deals quite well with non-ideal components
and their behavior under real-world situations.

Perhaps you need new physics textbooks. Or
maybe you don''t have any.

[ST]

More observations to report.

I did try bi-wiring and found that the system tend to sound bit
bright. Ok, maybe it is all in my head. But then I was thinking is it
possible why my system sounded bright because of the followings:-


1) Let's say speaker's impedance is 6 ohm.

2) However, my tweeter is said to be 4 ohm and my woofer is 8 ohm.

3) My Amp is capable of 250W per channel.

Q1) Will driving with X amount of power into 6 ohm speaker be the same
as driving with the same amp but individually, i.e bi-wiring the 4ohm
tweeter and 8 ohm woofer with non whatsoever changes in the volume?

Regards,
ST

[[email protected]]

On Mar 6, 10:53*am, ST wrote:

I did try bi-wiring and found that the system tend to sound bit
bright. Ok, maybe it is all in my head. But then I was thinking is it
possible why my system sounded bright because of the followings:-

1) Let's say speaker's impedance is *6 ohm.

2) However, my tweeter is said to be 4 ohm and my woofer is 8 ohm.

3) My Amp is capable of 250W per channel.

Q1) Will driving with X amount of power into 6 ohm speaker be the same
as driving with the same amp but individually, i.e bi-wiring the 4ohm
tweeter and 8 ohm woofer with non whatsoever changes in the volume?

YIKES!

OK... Follow closely, please.

a) "Mono" wiring means a single pair from the amp output to the
speaker, with the jumper(s) at the speaker remaining in place.
b) "Bi-Wiring" means two pairs from the *SAME* amp output to the
speaker and the jumper(s) at the speaker removed.

So: It is the precise, same, identical output to the precise, same,
identical speaker excepting the jumper is now a little bit longer.
THEY ARE CONNECTED AT THE AMP TERMINALS RATHER THAN AT THE SPEAKER
TERMINALS - but they ARE STILL CONNECTED.

i) the amp sees the same speaker either way.
ii) the amp therefore reacts to the same load either way.
iii) if you were to draw an electrical block diagram of the
connections they would be identical.

No matter how it is sliced and diced there will be no discernable
difference between "bi" or "hetero" wiring as far as either the
speaker or the amp is concerned assuming proper gauge wire and secure
connections in the first place. In other words, the laws of physics as
detailed already still obtain.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[[email protected]]

On Mar 6, 10:53*am, ST wrote:
More observations to report.

I did try bi-wiring and found that the system tend to sound bit
bright. Ok, maybe it is all in my head. But then I was thinking is it
possible why my system sounded bright because of the followings:-

1) Let's say speaker's impedance is *6 ohm.

2) However, my tweeter is said to be 4 ohm and my woofer is 8 ohm.

3) My Amp is capable of 250W per channel.

Q1) Will driving with X amount of power into 6 ohm
speaker be the same as driving with the same amp
but individually, i.e bi-wiring the 4ohm tweeter and
8 ohm woofer with non whatsoever changes in the
volume?

Please, THINK about how bi-wiring works, more
importantly, how it does NOT work.

Unless you are using VERY tiny speaker wire,
it has no substantive effect. With biwiring, you
are moving the common connection points
between the woofer and tweeter to a different
point in the speaker lead. The amplifier STILL
sees the woofer and its crossover in parallel with
the tweeter and its crossover. The load to the
amplifier doesn't change AT ALL.

And, unless you are using very tiny speaker wire,
in BOTH the non-biwire and the biwire case, the
signal seen by the woofer and its crossover
is the ENTIRE signal, and the signal seen by the
tweeter is the ENTIRE signal.

Biwiring is simply NOT capable of separating the
two signals: that job is handled by the crossover.
And the crossover is connected THE SAME in
both the non-biwire and the biwire cases.

[ST]

On Mar 7, 12:47*am, wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:53*am, ST wrote:



More observations to report.

I did try bi-wiring and found that the system tend to sound bit
bright. Ok, maybe it is all in my head. But then I was *****ing is it
possible why my system sounded bright because of the followings:-

1) Let's say speaker's impedance is *6 ohm.

2) However, my tweeter is said to be 4 ohm and my woofer is 8 ohm.

3) My Amp is capable of 250W per channel.

Q1) Will driving with X amount of power into 6 ohm
speaker be the same as driving with the same amp
but individually, i.e bi-wiring the 4ohm tweeter and
8 ohm woofer with non whatsoever changes in the
volume?

Please, ***** about how bi-wiring works, more
importantly, how it does NOT work.

Unless you are using VERY tiny speaker wire,
it has no substantive effect. With biwiring, you
are moving the common connection points
between the woofer and tweeter to a different
point in the speaker lead. The amplifier STILL
sees the woofer and its crossover in parallel with
the tweeter and its crossover. The load to the
amplifier doesn't change AT ALL.

And, unless you are using very tiny speaker wire,
in BOTH the non-biwire and the biwire case, the
signal seen by the woofer and its crossover
is the ENTIRE signal, and the signal seen by the
tweeter is the ENTIRE signal.

Biwiring is simply NOT capable of separating the
two signals: that job is handled by the crossover.
And the crossover is connected THE SAME in
both the non-biwire and the biwire cases.

I just need to clarify the part on after bi-wiring my system sounded a
little bright. It was NOT due to bi-wiring but I changed the speaker
position by pulling them closer by about 40cm which resulted in being
bit bright. Now, back to square one ,I report I can't tell any
difference between bi-wiring or not. Nor I could tell any difference
between two "audiophile" cable or a 6N OFC cable.

[Greg Wormald]

In article ,
ST wrote:

I just need to clarify the part on after bi-wiring my system sounded a
little bright. It was NOT due to bi-wiring but I changed the speaker
position by pulling them closer by about 40cm which resulted in being
bit bright. Now, back to square one ,I report I can't tell any
difference between bi-wiring or not. Nor I could tell any difference
between two "audiophile" cable or a 6N OFC cable.

If you can't tell any difference, then it's a change not worth
having--especially if it costs money.

Greg

[Sonnova]

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:53:54 -0800, ST wrote
(in article ):

More observations to report.

I did try bi-wiring and found that the system tend to sound bit
bright. Ok, maybe it is all in my head. But then I was thinking is it
possible why my system sounded bright because of the followings:-


1) Let's say speaker's impedance is 6 ohm.

2) However, my tweeter is said to be 4 ohm and my woofer is 8 ohm.

3) My Amp is capable of 250W per channel.

Q1) Will driving with X amount of power into 6 ohm speaker be the same
as driving with the same amp but individually, i.e bi-wiring the 4ohm
tweeter and 8 ohm woofer with non whatsoever changes in the volume?

Regards,
ST


Doubtful. If the speaker system was designed by the manufacturer as complete
system and all of the drivers are original, then the manufacturer has already
taken care of any differences in loudness between the various drivers by
including resistive pads in cross-over to match the levels. What you
postulate could only occur if bi-wiring somehow circumvented the
manufacturer's built-in cross-over, which, of course, it does not.

[Sonnova]

On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 15:07:36 -0800, codifus wrote
(in article ):

On Mar 5, 3:17*pm, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:
"codifus" wrote in message

...

On Mar 4, 10:14 pm, Sonnova wrote:

I've tried it on a number of different speakers, heard no difference.

Did you try it with different types of music? Like I pointed out
earlier, it's the types of music that will more likely bring out bi-
wiring's advantages. I've seen your posts and noticed that your taste
in music tend to be classical and that you aren't keen on studio
recordings.

Well, IMO a studio recording has the tendency to more fully test the
instantaneous dynamic capability of an audio system than a classical
recording ever will. Classical music doesn't invoke the short term
dynamic that bi-wiring brings out.

I like all types of music; live, studio, classical, hip-hop, reggae
etc. Different types of music can make certain capabilities of a
system more readily apparent than other types.

CD.

But bi-wiring can't make a difference as the laws of physics don't allow it.
So, any ideas that different types of music will show up different
capabilities is pure fantasy.

Really? OK. So, every capacitor, inductor, resistor etc in an
electrical circuit behaves perfectly, as defined by the laws of
physics? No, of course not. Capacitors have resistance, inductors have
capicatance and so forth. It goes to follow that circuits built from
these imperfect components won't behave perfectly, just more or less
perfectly. ------Quite oxymoronic, that last statement, don't you
think?

You resort to the laws of physics which is fine for a textbook case,
which this isn't.

Ever heard the phrase " a difference which makes no difference is no
difference at all"? It applies here. You know, until fairly recently, the
math used to determine resistor, capacitor and inductor sizes for ALL
electronic circuits was calculated using a slide rule. Answers were
approximates to say the least, yet the circuits worked and worked well. That
says that there is a lot of room for error in electronics design and things
aren't that critical - certainly not in audio, anyway.

If you really believe that you can hear bi-wiring making a difference, can
you please suggest a mechanism by which this could be? Please suggest a
hypothesis that can be tested. Please suggest some tests by which we can
verify independently what you suggest is the case. Otherwise, it's just
opinion, with no basis in reality.

I don't recall ever saying it was fact. Just that I observed it, and
believe it. As for tests, I did suggests types of music which would
make the effects of bi-wiring more apparent.

If it was real, it would make itself known in ALL types of music.

I can't give you everything you want EXACTLY as you want it, but I
sure did try.

You did, unfortunately, your observations are of a phenomenon that is highly
unlikely.



S.
--http://audiopages.googlepages.com


CD