[Mike]

I plan on buying some B&W CM1's speakers but all that I have for a
receiver is a Yamaha RX-V563 AV that I got for Christmas. The salesman
said that the speakers will not sound exactly the same since he used a
Rotel receiver when I listened to them originally but am I really
going to loose that much clarity or is he just trying to get me to buy
a high end receiver. I would rather put the money into my speakers now
and then save up again to get a better receiver down the road, can I
get some input by someone more experienced?
Thanks,
Mike

[Peter Wieck]

On Feb 10, 12:29*pm, Mike wrote:

or is he just trying to get me to buy a high end receiver.

Yes.

There are some that would also state that there is no such thing as a
"high end" receiver as true "high end" would require separate
components.

Of all the parts-and-pieces in your audio system, the electronics are
the least problematic after very basic quality and suitability limits
are met. True, speakers generally prefer "more" power than less -
headroom and such-like - but it is also true that even a few watts
*can* be enough if one listens to very efficient speakers at very
moderate listening levels such that the amp is not driven to
clipping.

You are dead-right. Spend the money on your speakers as decent, even
excellent electronics are thick and cheap on the ground as long as you
do not get your ego involved and confine yourself to actual
performance requirements. And although your particular receiver would
not be *my* first choice (nor would mine be yours, most likely), at
90wpc it is more than adequate for your needs, does surround-sound and
all sorts of other theatre functions.

Keep in mind that salespeople eat what they kill.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[[email protected]]

Peter Wieck wrote:
On Feb 10, 12:29 pm, Mike wrote:

or is he just trying to get me to buy a high end receiver.

Yes.

SNIP

And although your particular receiver would
not be *my* first choice (nor would mine be yours, most likely), at
90wpc it is more than adequate for your needs, does surround-sound and
all sorts of other theatre functions.

Actually, that 90wpc is at 1khz, not full bandwidth, and that's also at
0.9% THD. Basically, its more like 50wpc RMS @20-20khz. The CDM-1 is
about 88db sensitivity, so you will be a bit power constrained if you
like high volume with dynamic music. Still, the Yamaha will sound just
fine unless you push it too hard. And, IMO, buying the best speaker you
can, even with mediocre electronics, will get you *much* better sound
than cheaper speakers and high end electronics, so it's hard to go wrong
putting your $$$ into the speakers first.

Keith Hughes

[Greg Wormald[_2_]]

Of course he is trying to sell you more equipment--it's how he makes his
living.

That doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong or lying to you.

Just like in cooking, once the quality has been lost, you can't make up
for it further down the path. Poor ingredients are still poor no matter
how great the sauce is.

Only you can decide whether that particular combination works for you.
I'd be ensuring that by asking for a trial period of the speakers--my
amp, my music, my room.

Greg

[Greg Wormald]

Of course he is trying to sell you more equipment, it's how he makes his
living.

At the same time that doesn't mean he is lying to you, or wrong.

Just like in cooking, once the quality of the ingredients has been lost,
it's gone, and the best sauce won't make up for it. Only you can decide
whether that particular combination works for you and is worth the money.

I'd be asking for a trial period so I could try the speakers with my
amp, my music, and in my room. In the end, if it's worth it to you, it's
a good choice.

Greg

[Dave]

"Mike" wrote in message
...
I plan on buying some B&W CM1's speakers but all that I have for a
receiver is a Yamaha RX-V563 AV that I got for Christmas. The salesman
said that the speakers will not sound exactly the same since he used a
Rotel receiver when I listened to them originally but am I really
going to loose that much clarity or is he just trying to get me to buy
a high end receiver. I would rather put the money into my speakers now
and then save up again to get a better receiver down the road, can I
get some input by someone more experienced?
Thanks,
Mike

Ask if you can bring in your amp and demo the speakers, or a trial period
for the speakers in your listening space. I think many will back me up here
when I say that the amp and speakers (and listening space) work (or don't
work) as a unit, something different than one plus the other. Two amps of
the same power rating may sound very different on the same set of speakers.
An amp and speakers may work in one space but not in another. There's a
particular synergy that some amps/speakers/spaces have which others simply
do not, and the relationship is in no way related to the amount of money
spent. I had a friend in college who lived in a large one-room loft
apartment. He had some cheap Technics speakers hung from the rafters and a
mainstream mid-fi receiver, but I can still remember the sound... you found
yourself unable to NOT tap your foot, it just sounded so much better than my
much-more-expensive system in an unquantifiable way. If ever you do hit
upon a combo that "just sounds right" to your ears, cherish it and do not
succumb to the "audiophile" tendency to define "upgrade" by what reviewers
think.

And, I would wholeheartedly agree that the best bang for the buck in audio
sound improvement is had by upgrading speakers, not electronics, by a factor
of about 10X, closely followed by room treatments and EQ/DSP frequency
response correction. The amp is probably the LAST thing you need to upgrade
unless you need high volume for high-bandwidth dynamic passages of classical
music in a large listening space.

Dave

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message ...

Actually, that 90wpc is at 1khz, not full bandwidth, and that's also at
0.9% THD.

Knock off 10% to get a 20-20 KHz number.

Basically, its more like 50wpc RMS @20-20khz.

IME very pessimistic. A modern amp gets as high as 0.8% by clipping. Keep it
out of clipping, and THD will immediately slip below 0.05%. Similarly, its
20 Hz thats the sticking point. Above 50 Hz, it will be clean.

One can only speculate why a vendor will jack up the power to make a good
65-70 wpc amp into a questionable 90 wpc amp.

Also, the numbers given are for 5 channels, not 2. Driving just 2 channels
takes a lot of load off the power supply which is probably the determining
factor.

The OP is not clear whether he's going to buy 2 CM1 or 5 CM1. I'm thinking
that at $1k per pair list price, he's not getting 5. ;-)

The CDM-1 is about 88db sensitivity,

84 per the B&W web site. 88 dB would be very exceptional for a speaker this
size and low end extension.

B&W recommends 30 to 100 watts, and with just 2 channels driven the Yammy is
probably near the upper end of that.

Still, the Yamaha will sound just fine unless you push it too hard.

Agreed.

And, IMO, buying the best speaker you can, even with mediocre electronics,
will get you *much* better sound than cheaper speakers and high end
electronics, so it's hard to go wrong putting your $$$ into the speakers
first.

Unless space is very tight and more bass is forbidden, the CM1s seem to be a
bit questionable all by themselves.

[Arny Krueger]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...

Of all the parts-and-pieces in your audio system, the electronics are
the least problematic after very basic quality and suitability limits
are met.

IMO, extremely relevant and pragmatic advice.

True, speakers generally prefer "more" power than less -
headroom and such-like - but it is also true that even a few watts
*can* be enough if one listens to very efficient speakers at very
moderate listening levels such that the amp is not driven to
clipping.

The CM1s are not exactly efficient speakers. B&W's site says 84 dB/W

However, they are also not speakers that can handle a lot of power - B&W
recommends 30 to 100 watts.

The 5" woofers say it all - wonderful things are being done with small
drivers, but there will be no deep bass or very loud sounds.

You are dead-right. Spend the money on your speakers as decent, even
excellent electronics are thick and cheap on the ground as long as you
do not get your ego involved and confine yourself to actual
performance requirements.

IMO, extremely relevant and pragmatic advice.

However, similar logic may apply to the speakers themselves. If the space is
available, and the neighbors are either irrelevant or tolerant, physically
larger speakers may provide better price/performance.

And although your particular receiver would
not be *my* first choice (nor would mine be yours, most likely), at
90wpc it is more than adequate for your needs, does surround-sound and
all sorts of other theatre functions.

He already owns it and it is an OK product, so in some sense its the best in
the world! ;-)

Keep in mind that salespeople eat what they kill.

Nicely said!