[TimR]

Hope you won't mind another newbie question. You were very gracious
last time.

I've been recording a lot of solo trombone and vocals, not for
production but just to monitor student's progress.

I've been using an old stereo condenser microphone, powered by an
internal AA, directly into the microphone port of a laptop running
Audacity, and getting usable results. In the past I've had fairly
decent amateur recordings with that mike into a tape deck. Not to you
guys's standards of course, but okay.

But I figured with an external sound card I could do better not only
at recording but at playback. So I bought an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro,
and plugged the same mike into it. I don't get enough signal level to
do usable recordings. In fact it doesn't record at all unless I turn
the gain all the way to the stop.

I expected an interface with preamps would give me more signal than
the laptop's builtin port, but I get less.

So what did I do wrong? Bad choice of interface? Maybe got a
defective one? Something I'm missing? Or was the whole thing a dumb
idea? It's the only mike I had handy, I was going to upgrade one
piece of signal path at a time.

I was also hoping to use this to put some LPs on to the computer,
haven't tried that yet but suspect that'll be too low as well. Output
is pretty good, I like the audio quality.

[Richard Crowley]

"TimR" wrote ...
Hope you won't mind another newbie question. You were very gracious
last time.

I've been recording a lot of solo trombone and vocals, not for
production but just to monitor student's progress.

I've been using an old stereo condenser microphone, powered by an
internal AA, directly into the microphone port of a laptop running
Audacity, and getting usable results. In the past I've had fairly
decent amateur recordings with that mike into a tape deck. Not to you
guys's standards of course, but okay.

But I figured with an external sound card I could do better not only
at recording but at playback. So I bought an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro,
and plugged the same mike into it. I don't get enough signal level to
do usable recordings. In fact it doesn't record at all unless I turn
the gain all the way to the stop.

I expected an interface with preamps would give me more signal than
the laptop's builtin port, but I get less.

So what did I do wrong? Bad choice of interface? Maybe got a
defective one? Something I'm missing?

The main thing missing is the identity of your microphone? If we knew
exactly what it is (make and model), we might be able to help determine
if it is interfaced to the M-Audio box properly, and indeed, if it is even
posible to make it work properly. Better to have too many details than
too few.

Can you tell us exactly what microphone you are using, and exactly
how you have it plugged into the M-Audio box? (Including any kinds
of adapters, if you are using any?)

Unless the M-Audio box is broken (which doesn't seem very likely)
there would appear to be no fundamental reason you shouldn't be
able to do this.

[TimR]

On Jan 20, 4:58*pm, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
"TimR" *wrote ...





Hope you won't mind another newbie question. *You were very gracious
last time.

I've been recording a lot of solo trombone and vocals, not for
production but just to monitor student's progress.

I've been using an old stereo condenser microphone, powered by an
internal AA, directly into the microphone port of a laptop running
Audacity, and getting usable results. *In the past I've had fairly
decent amateur recordings with that mike into a tape deck. *Not to you
guys's standards of course, but okay.

But I figured with an external sound card I could do better not only
at recording but at playback. *So I bought an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro,
and plugged the same mike into it. *I don't get enough signal level to
do usable recordings. *In fact it doesn't record at all unless I turn
the gain all the way to the stop.

I expected an interface with preamps would give me more signal than
the laptop's builtin port, but I get less.

So what did I do wrong? *Bad choice of interface? *Maybe got a
defective one? *Something I'm missing?

The main thing missing is the identity of your microphone? If we knew
exactly what it is (make and model), we might be able to help determine
if it is interfaced to the M-Audio box properly, and indeed, if it is even
posible to make it work properly. *Better to have too many details than
too few.

Can you tell us exactly what microphone you are using, and exactly
how you have it plugged into the M-Audio box? (Including any kinds
of adapters, if you are using any?)

Unless the M-Audio box is broken (which doesn't seem very likely)
there would appear to be no fundamental reason you shouldn't be
able to do this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sure but I'm embarassed to admit it.

I dug an old Realistic condenser mike out of the drawer. I bought it
sometime in the 70's. It has two 1/4 inch plugs on it. I recall it
being fairly expensive at the time.

To make it work with the laptop, I used a kludge job of two 1/4 inche
to RCA connectors, then a (double RCA) to (stereo mini) Y connector.
It was painful to look at but put the signal into the laptop fine.

The M-Audio has two jacks on the front so I just pulled all the
adapter junk off and put the two mike plugs directly in.

If I really need to buy another microphone or two now (I don't
actually need stereo for students but would for an audition recording)
I can, but if there's something more fundamentally wrong then that may
not be the right direction.

[Richard Crowley]

"TimR" wrote ...
The M-Audio has two jacks on the front so I just pulled all the
adapter junk off and put the two mike plugs directly in.

The concentric 1/4-inch phone inputs on the M-Audio box are
instrument inputs (vs. mic input). You may need to use adapters
that allow connecting your mic to the 3-pin XLR part of the input
connectors. I couldn't find the user manual or any info on M-Audio's
website that gave much description of the instrument inputs vs. mic
inputs on that box.

I would have thought that you would find the opposite effect plugging
an electret mic into an "instrument input" (levels too high), but absent
any hard info, who knows?

[TimR]

On Jan 20, 5:49*pm, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
"TimR" *wrote ...

The M-Audio has two jacks on the front so I just pulled all the
adapter junk off and put the two mike plugs directly in.

The concentric 1/4-inch phone inputs on the M-Audio box are
instrument inputs (vs. mic input). You may need to use adapters
that allow connecting your mic to the 3-pin XLR part of the input
connectors. *I couldn't find the user manual or any info on M-Audio's
website that gave much description of the instrument inputs vs. mic
inputs on that box.

I would have thought that you would find the opposite effect plugging
an electret mic into an "instrument input" (levels too high), but absent
any hard info, who knows?

Per the owner's manual, I have a choice between line and instrument
for those inputs. I had the button set for instrument; for line it
inserts resistance to keep the levels low.

I'll call the product support and see what they say.

I assumed if you can plug a guitar in, it could handle a straight 1/4
plug, not a TRS. The 1/4 should just short out the ring and shaft,
right?

Any recommendation on a better microphone for my purposes, solo and
small group instrumental recordings?

[Mike Rivers]

TimR wrote:

I dug an old Realistic condenser mike out of the drawer. I bought it
sometime in the 70's. It has two 1/4 inch plugs on it.

Well, there's your problem. You're probably plugging those 1/4" plugs
into the 1/4" jacks on the M-Audio interface because they fit. Logical,
wot? Well, those are line level inputs and have about 20 dB less gain
than the mic inputs. What you need are some 1/4" to XLR adapters so you
can connect your Radio Shack mic to the mic inputs on your interface.
That will make it work like a microphone.

There are several ways to make that sort of adapter. Some use a
transformer to convert impedance as well as the physical connection, but
I don't believe that's what you need. You need just hard-wired adapters,
but there are a couple of ways that they could be wired. Your chances of
getting the right one are pretty good, but there's a possibility that
you could get one that's incorrectly wired for your mic or interface.
The best thing is to make it yourself, but you're probably not up to
that. If you were, you'd probably have done it already. Actually the
simplest solution is to whack off the 1/4" phone plugs and replace them
with XLRs wired with the hot lead to pin 2 and the shield wired to pins
1 and 3.

A couple of these should get you set up properly: http://tinyurl.com/79jrrv




--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Mike Rivers]

TimR wrote:

Per the owner's manual, I have a choice between line and instrument
for those inputs. I had the button set for instrument; for line it
inserts resistance to keep the levels low.

There's actually not a lot of difference between line and insturment
level except that few instruments can put out +24 dBu. The difference is
that the instrument input has a very high impedance so as to present the
same sort of load to a pickup as an instrument amplifier would. It's a
cheap trick to save you from having to buy a DI (direct) box.

I'll call the product support and see what they say.

Good luck with the phone, but I already gave you the right answer.

I assumed if you can plug a guitar in, it could handle a straight 1/4
plug, not a TRS. The 1/4 should just short out the ring and shaft,
right?

Right, but plugging your mic into a guitar amplifier wouldn't work any
better than plugging it into the instrument input on your M-Audio
interface. You need to use the mic inputs to get sufficient gain, and
you need to make the connectors match.

Any recommendation on a better microphone for my purposes, solo and
small group instrumental recordings?

A Neumann U87 is always nice. Now, how much can you really afford?


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Jay Ts]

TimR wrote:
But I figured with an external sound card I could do better not only at
recording but at playback. So I bought an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro, and
plugged the same mike into it. I don't get enough signal level to do
usable recordings. In fact it doesn't record at all unless I turn the
gain all the way to the stop.

Since you didn't say, let's do a quick sanity check:

1. Make sure you have the Inst/Line button set to Inst (instrument).
2. Make sure you have not engaged the -20dB pad.
3. There are separate controls on the FastTrack for preamp
gain and output level. Make sure they are both turned up
about midway (at least) to start.

And you also need to check the settings in M-Audio's software mixer,
to make sure you're recording off that interface (i.e., it's selected
and not muted), and that the record level for the mic is turned up
sufficiently there as well. Finally, there is probably a level
slider for the channels in Audacity.

Jay Ts
--
To contact me, use this web page:
http://www.jayts.com/contact.php

[TimR]

On Jan 20, 11:19*pm, Jay Ts wrote:
TimR wrote:
But I figured with an external sound card I could do better not only at
recording but at playback. *So I bought an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro, and
plugged the same mike into it. *I don't get enough signal level to do
usable recordings. *In fact it doesn't record at all unless I turn the
gain all the way to the stop.

Since you didn't say, let's do a quick sanity check:

1. Make sure you have the Inst/Line button set to Inst (instrument).
2. Make sure you have not engaged the -20dB pad.
3. There are separate controls on the FastTrack for preamp
* *gain and output level. Make sure they are both turned up
* *about midway (at least) to start.


Yup, did that. Still some stuff in software to recheck.

Actually this is encouraging, nobody has said the basic idea is dumb,
you just think operator error is involved, probably so.

Can I get a reasonable microphone for this type of home recording in
the $100 to $200 range? or am I dreaming? When I dug that old mike
out of the drawer I didn't actually expect it to work at all, I was
pleasantly surprised. RS doesn't get any respect now, but back then
some of their stuff was okay.

[hank alrich]

TimR wrote:

Can I get a reasonable microphone for this type of home recording in
the $100 to $200 range? or am I dreaming? When I dug that old mike
out of the drawer I didn't actually expect it to work at all, I was
pleasantly surprised. RS doesn't get any respect now, but back then
some of their stuff was okay.

Search MCA SP-1 in the r.a.p. archives.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Richard Crowley]

"hank alrich" wrote ...
TimR wrote:
Can I get a reasonable microphone for this type of home recording in
the $100 to $200 range? or am I dreaming? When I dug that old mike
out of the drawer I didn't actually expect it to work at all, I was
pleasantly surprised. RS doesn't get any respect now, but back then
some of their stuff was okay.

Search MCA SP-1 in the r.a.p. archives.

This is the only place that I could find that still sells them....
http://www.pssl.com/MXL-SP1-Condense...hone-With-Clip
A steal for $40
A more commercially availble alternative is AudioTechnica AT-2020 @ $80

[hank alrich]

Richard Crowley wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote ...
TimR wrote:
Can I get a reasonable microphone for this type of home recording in
the $100 to $200 range? or am I dreaming? When I dug that old mike
out of the drawer I didn't actually expect it to work at all, I was
pleasantly surprised. RS doesn't get any respect now, but back then
some of their stuff was okay.

Search MCA SP-1 in the r.a.p. archives.

This is the only place that I could find that still sells them....
http://www.pssl.com/MXL-SP1-Condense...hone-With-Clip
A steal for $40

I agree, and that's where I got my pair.

A more commercially availble alternative is AudioTechnica AT-2020 @ $80

My only real reference there is Ty's commentary, and how real is that?
g

I don't recall if he commented directly comparatively. He has
experienced both mics.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar