[Richard Crowley]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote ...
Do you reckon Microsoft Corporate runs its business on Windows boxes?
Forgive me if I doubt.

The factories that develop and manufacture the CPU chip you likely
have in your computer run on MSwin (formerly on various flavors of
Unix/Linux/***x). In an application where downtime costs US$2M
per hour, not a decision taken lightly.

The factory that developed and manufactured the CPU chip I have in my
computer was in Hudson, MA, and shut down in 2003.

The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)

[Scott Dorsey]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote ...
Do you reckon Microsoft Corporate runs its business on Windows boxes?
Forgive me if I doubt.

The factories that develop and manufacture the CPU chip you likely
have in your computer run on MSwin (formerly on various flavors of
Unix/Linux/***x). In an application where downtime costs US$2M
per hour, not a decision taken lightly.

The factory that developed and manufactured the CPU chip I have in my
computer was in Hudson, MA, and shut down in 2003.

The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)

Shameful. That's all I can say.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)

Shameful. That's all I can say.

Easy for you to say. You are not only a one-man-band but you also
run your own computing "infrastructure". It was becoming increasing
difficult to find competent employees to support the 20 different
flavors of Unix on the 10s of thousands of systems that run the factories.

[Scott Dorsey]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)

Shameful. That's all I can say.

Easy for you to say. You are not only a one-man-band but you also
run your own computing "infrastructure". It was becoming increasing
difficult to find competent employees to support the 20 different
flavors of Unix on the 10s of thousands of systems that run the factories.

I don't think it is any harder to find competent Windows people... I think
it's just that there are a lot of people out there who know enough Windows
to get by. In a lot of environments, that's enough, but I would hope for
better in an embedded control environment.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)

Shameful. That's all I can say.

Easy for you to say. You are not only a one-man-band but you also
run your own computing "infrastructure". It was becoming increasing
difficult to find competent employees to support the 20 different
flavors of Unix on the 10s of thousands of systems that run the factories.

I don't think it is any harder to find competent Windows people... I think
it's just that there are a lot of people out there who know enough Windows
to get by. In a lot of environments, that's enough, but I would hope for
better in an embedded control environment.

Perhaps, but there are these significant factors (and likely others)....
1) A single OS (and version) vs. a nearly infinite number of Unix/
Linux/Sunos/et.al. brands, flavors, distributions, versions, and builds.
2) A single target for vendors to interface with (vs. #1 above)
3) Fairly rigorous certification in many specific areas of competency.
4) Real support from a commercial vendor. (Granted, only when one
is a huge multi-national corp with lots of $$$, but then as you say,
there is a lot at stake.)

I must admit that the reliability appears to be significantly up since we
emigrated from the balkanized Unix/Linix/Sunox/et.al. landscape.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)
Shameful. That's all I can say.
Easy for you to say. You are not only a one-man-band but you also
run your own computing "infrastructure". It was becoming increasing
difficult to find competent employees to support the 20 different
flavors of Unix on the 10s of thousands of systems that run the factories.
I don't think it is any harder to find competent Windows people... I think
it's just that there are a lot of people out there who know enough Windows
to get by. In a lot of environments, that's enough, but I would hope for
better in an embedded control environment.

Perhaps, but there are these significant factors (and likely others)....
1) A single OS (and version) vs. a nearly infinite number of Unix/
Linux/Sunos/et.al. brands, flavors, distributions, versions, and builds.
2) A single target for vendors to interface with (vs. #1 above)
3) Fairly rigorous certification in many specific areas of competency.
4) Real support from a commercial vendor. (Granted, only when one
is a huge multi-national corp with lots of $$$, but then as you say,
there is a lot at stake.)

I must admit that the reliability appears to be significantly up since we
emigrated from the balkanized Unix/Linix/Sunox/et.al. landscape.

I imagine that the Balkans will eventually be overpowered by the Chinese


--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

[Les Cargill]

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)
Shameful. That's all I can say.

Easy for you to say. You are not only a one-man-band but you also
run your own computing "infrastructure". It was becoming increasing
difficult to find competent employees to support the 20 different
flavors of Unix on the 10s of thousands of systems that run the factories.




Sometimes it's cheaper to fix things than let them run as they are....

--
Les Cargill

[Scott Dorsey]

Les Cargill wrote:
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)
Shameful. That's all I can say.

Easy for you to say. You are not only a one-man-band but you also
run your own computing "infrastructure". It was becoming increasing
difficult to find competent employees to support the 20 different
flavors of Unix on the 10s of thousands of systems that run the factories.

Sometimes it's cheaper to fix things than let them run as they are....

The last I looked, that facility was running lots of RT-11 and VaxELN....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
The former DEC fab in Hudson is now Intel Fab 17 and is still running
(on MSwin, now :-)
Shameful. That's all I can say.
Easy for you to say. You are not only a one-man-band but you also
run your own computing "infrastructure". It was becoming increasing
difficult to find competent employees to support the 20 different
flavors of Unix on the 10s of thousands of systems that run the factories.
Sometimes it's cheaper to fix things than let them run as they are....

The last I looked, that facility was running lots of RT-11 and VaxELN....
--scott

I had to look both those up. I don't feel too bad for remembering pSOS
so fondly now....

--
Les Cargill