"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...

Isn't the Autotune just a more advanced tool for removing "clams"?



Autotune *is* often used across entire tracks in "auto" mode, chasing
as best it can every note for the perfect pitch. Combine a few tracks
like this and it's... well... very different.

I have a 'principle' problem with it's current trend, however I wouldn't mind
seeing and learning to use it proficiently for "clams".

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Isn't the Autotune just a more advanced tool for removing "clams"?

Autotune *is* often used across entire tracks in "auto" mode, chasing
as best it can every note for the perfect pitch. Combine a few tracks
like this and it's... well... very different.

I can imagine.

Perfect pitch as a special effect.

Whoda thunk!

I have a 'principle' problem with it's current trend, however I
wouldn't mind seeing and learning to use it proficiently for "clams".

I edit a lot of amateur stuff, and could appreciate it for that purpose if
it worked.

OTOH if these $#@!! would rehearse before performing...

LOL!

A lot of the justification for A-T seems to be an implicit argument that
the world is waiting for THIS recording, THIS performance---therefore
we've got to fix it. But the world couldn't care less. If a performance
isn't good enough, don't release it.

On the other hand, narcissistically, we WANT to release our performances!

James Boyk

A lot of the justification for A-T seems to be an implicit argument that
the world is waiting for THIS recording, THIS performance---therefore
we've got to fix it. But the world couldn't care less. If a performance
isn't good enough, don't release it.

Ever moved the lead vocal fader during a mix because a word or phrase was
too loud or to soft? If so... you probably should retrack the vocal until
the singer gets the dynamics right.



-S

In article writes:

I was researching Japanese music for an album I was doing
that was to have an Japanese-themed track, and I came across some
shakuhachi music, the bamboo flute.

These guys (several different unrelated artists!) were doing
outrageous things. They'd do overblowing stuff creating great chuffs of
noise, imitating deer. They'd be playing notes, and would lean
ruthlessly on the note, making it a freaking quarter-tone sharp, or just
explore all microtonally, with no fear at all of breaking equal
temperament, and it worked, it really worked.

So how many records did they sell? As many as Britney or Ricky or
Mmmmm? It's like Archie Shep or Roland Kirk, or even B. B. King or
Blind Lemon Jefferson - creating tension by not quite ever getting to
pitch before moving on to another note. There's a difference between
"See how that note holds you on the edge of your chair?", "I played it
wrong, can we fix that note?" and "We have to put everything in tune
because people won't like it otherwise."



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

In article writes:

Ever moved the lead vocal fader during a mix because a word or phrase was
too loud or to soft? If so... you probably should retrack the vocal until
the singer gets the dynamics right.

Either that or leave it a little too loud or too soft. Who's to say
what's right?

I had a friend who was adamant about the fact that if a singer
couldn't just sit down and sing a song into a recorder and be done
with it, he wasn't ready to record. My friend never recorded (other
than for fun) but he also though that there were far too many records
being made, and this was in the mid 1970's.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

In article znr1057151587k@trad, Mike Rivers
wrote:

I had a friend who was adamant about the fact that if a singer
couldn't just sit down and sing a song into a recorder and be done
with it, he wasn't ready to record.

The problem was folks who could do that whose records you couldn't sell
combined with others whose records you COULD sell but who needed all
the help they could get. Getting a hit record isn't anything like
earning a degree no matter how badly some people want it to be.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery Recording Project Design and Consulting
Box 90412, Nashville TN 37209 Tracking, Mixing, Mastering, Audio for Picture
615.385.8051 FAX: 615.385.8196 Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
40 years of making people sound better than they ever imagined!

"James Boyk" wrote in message


A lot of the justification for A-T seems to be an implicit argument
that the world is waiting for THIS recording, THIS
performance---therefore we've got to fix it. But the world couldn't
care less. If a performance isn't good enough, don't release it.

One could hope that all musicians feel this way. But back in the real world,
the way to Carnage Hall is practice, practice, practice; at least until the
possibility of Autotune, Autotune, Autotune.

On the other hand, narcissistically, we WANT to release our
performances!

But doing things right is so much work...

Thinking about a musician who basically told me last weekend that he
objected to recordings that didn't have enough room ambience to cover up his
group being significantly off-key or off-time. He objected to all condenser
mics in the same discussion.

My own thinking is that if I have to push buttons and move knobs right, they
should sing and play right. I'm sure I couldn't get away with this in the
modern world of commercial recordings.

You know what I like to do with AT? I like to use it to terminate
arguments.

Such as arguments that go like this: "You're singing a bit flat (or
sharp) there, let's try that again". "No stinking way I'm off, you
can't hear squat".

Soooo, I autotune the ENTIRE vocal track to a new track,
simultaneously play the ENTIRE AT take and the original take in the
cans. This immediately ends all arguments about intonation and/or
lack thereof. I've found that a mono playback usually suffices, but
panning can be enjoyable as well ;-)

And for you vocal instructors:

Yup, used properly (see above), the AT is no threat whatsoever. In
fact it can be one of a vocal coach's most potent sales tools. But
use it sparingly, otherwise the customer will end up at the
performance psychologist for a stint before they can come back to
you...

In article writes:

When I say "off", I mean off to in a way that "fixing" it would be generally
accepted as sounding better. No...

So what's wrong with saying to the singer while he or she is still in
front of the mic "Let's go over the third line in the second verse,
the one that starts with 'Forever and again'. You were a little flat
in there." And what's wrong with paying attention to pitch when
you're tracking so you don't have to fix it after the singer has left
on tour? If you have to 'break the vibe' several times during a
session, then the singer isn't ready or will never be.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

In article , James Boyk
wrote:

narcissistically, we WANT to release our performances!

And narcissistically, we WANT them to be perfect. This stuff, sadly,
has usually been artist-diven.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery Recording Project Design and Consulting
Box 90412, Nashville TN 37209 Tracking, Mixing, Mastering, Audio for Picture
615.385.8051 FAX: 615.385.8196 Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
40 years of making people sound better than they ever imagined!

Bob Olhsson wrote in message ...
In article , James Boyk
wrote:

narcissistically, we WANT to release our performances!

And narcissistically, we WANT them to be perfect. This stuff, sadly,
has usually been artist-diven.

I enjoy capturing good live performances more than anything. I do
certainly edit them in the studio but I like the idea of capturing the
moment and the excitement and not necessarily being perfect.

I think it a lot of ways commercialism has taken us far away from the
real basis of music in the social context; That social context being
more a music of the people and participated in by the people etc.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Isn't the Autotune just a more advanced tool for removing "clams"?

Autotune *is* often used across entire tracks in "auto" mode, chasing
as best it can every note for the perfect pitch. Combine a few tracks
like this and it's... well... very different.

I can imagine.

Perfect pitch as a special effect.

Whoda thunk!

I have a 'principle' problem with it's current trend, however I
wouldn't mind seeing and learning to use it proficiently for "clams".

I edit a lot of amateur stuff, and could appreciate it for that purpose if
it worked.

OTOH if these $#@!! would rehearse before performing...

LOL!

I do a boatlaod of jazz and swing... if I even so much as offered to
autotune the occasional 'blue note' I would be hurled from the room.

And you are correct... autotuning several parts of an ensemble which
combine to make a chord to perfect pitch, is most definitely a 'special'
effect.

DM

James Boyk wrote in message ...
I confess amazement at use of Auto-Tune, or whatever it's called. A
musician's intonation is as personal as anything about his or her
music-making except possibly rhythm. It's one of the things that that
musician's music personal and identifiable. Of course I'm speaking of
voice and instruments where the player controls the pitch. As a pianist,
my only role in this aspect of music-making is to choose the tuner,
which I do whenever possible.

I'm amazed that anyone would give up control of intonation---or am I
missing the boat. Is this done on only one or two clunker notes, not on
the whole line?

James Boyk

I think a lot of people just use it to fix parts the singer goofed on.
Of course a good singer would just retake it. More importantly people
use it for singers who can't sing well.

I have used it and the problem is, it doesn't make a bad singer sound
good.


Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

In article writes:

Of course a good singer would just retake it. More importantly people
use it for singers who can't sing well.

With enough singer who CAN sing well, why bother with those who can't?
We have too many recordings to listen to already. A little natural
selection wouldn't hurt.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )