On 7/13/04 11:53 PM, in article , "chung"
wrote:

B&D wrote:
On 7/12/04 9:40 PM, in article g4HIc.60690$JR4.18225@attbi_s54, "chung"
wrote:

It makes me wonder why any of them would see the $350k Wavac amplifier as
special.

I have found that with most things quality tends to rise with price to a
point. Above that point things get needlessly complex and the quality and
performance suffers. I can't see how this would be any different!

You are missing the point. This amp is seriously bad. To say that
quality or performance of this amp suffers is like saying a car that can
only get up to 25 mph has performance that suffers, despite a $1 million
price-tag.

No, I didn't miss the point. What I am saying is that if you pay too much
for something - way out of line from what you would expect, the quality and
performance, except, perhaps in one or two regards, is *likely* to stink.

I am agreeing with you - but also adding that I am not surprised.

I am very surprised that a $350K can be this bad. I can understand if
the performance is simply average, but this amp has really no redeeming
qualities, from a measurement point of view, other than looks (and
debatable of couse). How often do you see an electronics product that is
perhaps 100 times the cost of products that do the same thing, and yet
has performance that is among the worst?

I suppose as rare as it is, here is one.

One question that is fair - is what was its design goal? (I didn't read the
review myself) If it is like the Japanese SET amps with silver wound
transformers that are upwards of $20k - and lots of even harmonic distortion
- perhaps this is a definitive example?

I don't know. But a lot of times an expensive car above $150k or so,
features start disappearing, reliability drops somewhat, and things most
people would consider basic about the vehicle start disappearing. But the
one or two things that they focus upon tend to be superlative, all else
suffers...

B&D wrote:

On 7/13/04 11:53 PM, in article , "chung"
wrote:

B&D wrote:
On 7/12/04 9:40 PM, in article g4HIc.60690$JR4.18225@attbi_s54, "chung"
wrote:

It makes me wonder why any of them would see the $350k Wavac amplifier as
special.

I have found that with most things quality tends to rise with price to a
point. Above that point things get needlessly complex and the quality and
performance suffers. I can't see how this would be any different!

You are missing the point. This amp is seriously bad. To say that
quality or performance of this amp suffers is like saying a car that can
only get up to 25 mph has performance that suffers, despite a $1 million
price-tag.

No, I didn't miss the point. What I am saying is that if you pay too much
for something - way out of line from what you would expect, the quality and
performance, except, perhaps in one or two regards, is *likely* to stink.

I am agreeing with you - but also adding that I am not surprised.

I am very surprised that a $350K can be this bad. I can understand if
the performance is simply average, but this amp has really no redeeming
qualities, from a measurement point of view, other than looks (and
debatable of couse). How often do you see an electronics product that is
perhaps 100 times the cost of products that do the same thing, and yet
has performance that is among the worst?

I suppose as rare as it is, here is one.

One question that is fair - is what was its design goal? (I didn't read the
review myself)

Youi mean you've been frequently posting in this thread, and you still
have not read the review or the measurements! Wow!

If it is like the Japanese SET amps with silver wound
transformers that are upwards of $20k - and lots of even harmonic distortion
- perhaps this is a definitive example?

I don't know. But a lot of times an expensive car above $150k or so,
features start disappearing, reliability drops somewhat, and things most
people would consider basic about the vehicle start disappearing. But the
one or two things that they focus upon tend to be superlative, all else
suffers...

To make the comparison fair, it would be like a car that costs $4
million. That is outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price.

On 7/14/04 11:02 PM, in article , "chung"
wrote:

I suppose as rare as it is, here is one.

One question that is fair - is what was its design goal? (I didn't read the
review myself)

Youi mean you've been frequently posting in this thread, and you still
have not read the review or the measurements! Wow!

If it is like the Japanese SET amps with silver wound
transformers that are upwards of $20k - and lots of even harmonic distortion
- perhaps this is a definitive example?

I don't know. But a lot of times an expensive car above $150k or so,
features start disappearing, reliability drops somewhat, and things most
people would consider basic about the vehicle start disappearing. But the
one or two things that they focus upon tend to be superlative, all else
suffers...

To make the comparison fair, it would be like a car that costs $4
million. That is outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price.

I am sure you can find a car or two that would cost that much - be a custom
job, too.

B&D wrote:

On 7/14/04 11:02 PM, in article , "chung"
wrote:

I suppose as rare as it is, here is one.

One question that is fair - is what was its design goal? (I didn't read the
review myself)

Youi mean you've been frequently posting in this thread, and you still
have not read the review or the measurements! Wow!

If it is like the Japanese SET amps with silver wound
transformers that are upwards of $20k - and lots of even harmonic distortion
- perhaps this is a definitive example?

I don't know. But a lot of times an expensive car above $150k or so,
features start disappearing, reliability drops somewhat, and things most
people would consider basic about the vehicle start disappearing. But the
one or two things that they focus upon tend to be superlative, all else
suffers...

To make the comparison fair, it would be like a car that costs $4
million. That is outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price.

I am sure you can find a car or two that would cost that much - be a custom
job, too.


Can you think of even one example? I can't.

On 7/17/04 1:25 AM, in article EL2Kc.99152$IQ4.60400@attbi_s02, "chung"
wrote:

To make the comparison fair, it would be like a car that costs $4
million. That is outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price.

I am sure you can find a car or two that would cost that much - be a custom
job, too.


Can you think of even one example? I can't.

Indy car or Fomula 1 race car. Lousy for commuting and normal car uses.
Only good for high speed travel. No AM/FM radio or cupholders, either.

B&D wrote:
On 7/17/04 1:25 AM, in article EL2Kc.99152$IQ4.60400@attbi_s02, "chung"
wrote:

To make the comparison fair, it would be like a car that costs $4
million. That is outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price.

I am sure you can find a car or two that would cost that much - be a custom
job, too.


Can you think of even one example? I can't.

Indy car or Fomula 1 race car. Lousy for commuting and normal car uses.
Only good for high speed travel. No AM/FM radio or cupholders, either.

But is it outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price? You
think an Indy car or F1 car is a POS? Have you seen the measurements of
an F1 car?

On 7/17/04 10:50 PM, in article LzlKc.118328$XM6.91225@attbi_s53, "chung"
wrote:

B&D wrote:
On 7/17/04 1:25 AM, in article EL2Kc.99152$IQ4.60400@attbi_s02, "chung"
wrote:

To make the comparison fair, it would be like a car that costs $4
million. That is outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price.

I am sure you can find a car or two that would cost that much - be a custom
job, too.


Can you think of even one example? I can't.

Indy car or Fomula 1 race car. Lousy for commuting and normal car uses.
Only good for high speed travel. No AM/FM radio or cupholders, either.

But is it outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price? You
think an Indy car or F1 car is a POS? Have you seen the measurements of
an F1 car?

It is if you want to drive at less than 100-120mph (but the point was not
the horsepower rating, but the fact that at the millions of dollars price
the car is really good at one thing, but lousy at the opther things).
Having been an Indy car fan - they usually have to be pushed to get moving
from a dead stop. I don't know about the actual stats (since most of those,
aside form the general rules of the race tend to be tightly held secrets in
a lot of cases).

Still, even if declared "street legal" they would make a lousy car for basic
commuting - have terrible comfort, and really awful and barely controllable
performance (would tend to stall out a lot) at the normal traffic speeds.
If one were to compare a Indy car or F1 car in racing tune (~1000bhp
actually on the data sheet of the race) to a Chevy Impala for everyday
driving tasks, the Impala would wipe the floor with the race car, actually.

You asked for an example - you got one.

On 17 Jul 2004 14:46:43 GMT, B&D wrote:

On 7/17/04 1:25 AM, in article EL2Kc.99152$IQ4.60400@attbi_s02, "chung"
wrote:

To make the comparison fair, it would be like a car that costs $4
million. That is outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price.

I am sure you can find a car or two that would cost that much - be a custom
job, too.


Can you think of even one example? I can't.

Indy car or Fomula 1 race car. Lousy for commuting and normal car uses.
Only good for high speed travel. No AM/FM radio or cupholders, either.

Actually, they *do* have AM/FM radio, and digital - two-way, even! But
no starter motor....................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 05:25:56 GMT, chung wrote:

B&D wrote:

On 7/14/04 11:02 PM, in article , "chung"
wrote:

To make the comparison fair, it would be like a car that costs $4
million. That is outpowered by just about every car at 1% of its price.

I am sure you can find a car or two that would cost that much - be a custom
job, too.


Can you think of even one example? I can't.

The Sultan of Brunei has several special commisions by Bentley and
Rolls-Royce, which probably ran that figure pretty close.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering