[Frank Stearns]

I've got a project that's going to top out at about 78-79 minutes. Both the client
and I don't really want to go to a two CD set. (This will be a short 200 unit run
burned onto CDr.)

All my CDrs these days are 80 min, and hopefully there aren't many of the really
old CD players around any more that might have a problem with 74 min disks...

But, am curious as to others' experience deviating from Redbook and into no-man's
land between the 74 and 80 minute boundaries. (I even have a Telarc commercial
release or two that are 77 minutes.)

Thanks in advance,

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio
--

[Carey Carlan]

Frank Stearns wrote in
:

I've got a project that's going to top out at about 78-79 minutes.
Both the client and I don't really want to go to a two CD set. (This
will be a short 200 unit run burned onto CDr.)

All my CDrs these days are 80 min, and hopefully there aren't many of
the really old CD players around any more that might have a problem
with 74 min disks...

But, am curious as to others' experience deviating from Redbook and
into no-man's land between the 74 and 80 minute boundaries. (I even
have a Telarc commercial release or two that are 77 minutes.)

I have used 80 minute Taiyo Yuden CD-R's exclusively for several years,
even for programs shorter than 74 minutes. I duplicate on good (Yamaha or
Plextor) burners and have had no returns.

The lifetime of modern CD drives appears to be growing shorter. I doubt
there are many left operable that can't read an 80 minute CD.

[Scott Dorsey]

Frank Stearns wrote:
I've got a project that's going to top out at about 78-79 minutes. Both the client
and I don't really want to go to a two CD set. (This will be a short 200 unit run
burned onto CDr.)

For a pressed CD I don't recommend it. But ask the pressing plant the
customer is going to use. The issue has to do with how tight a pitch
the glass mastering system can produce, and how flat the CD can be
manufactured out near the edge. Most plants won't guarantee them.

But for a CD-R... well, you might as well since the guys doing the
replication are probably using the tight pitch 80 minute blanks anyway.

All my CDrs these days are 80 min, and hopefully there aren't many of the really
old CD players around any more that might have a problem with 74 min disks...

They ALL might have a problem. The thing is, the groove pitch is tighter
with the 80 minute disc than with the 74 minute ones, and it's tighter
with the 74 minute ones than the 63 minute ones. All other things being
equal, the error rate will be lower with the more relaxed pitch.

And the thing is, the error rate will increase as the disc ages. So you
may have discs that read fine now, but a decade down the road don't read
so well. The error issues are cumulative, and maybe everything will be
fine and maybe it won't be, and you never know until it happens.

But the truth is, the duplication guys are probably going to be doing
them quick and fast on 80 minute blanks without error monitoring, so
you'll get what you get no matter how much you put on.

But, am curious as to others' experience deviating from Redbook and into no-man's
land between the 74 and 80 minute boundaries. (I even have a Telarc commercial
release or two that are 77 minutes.)

Red Book allows a variety of different groove pitches, with 74 being the
tightest. Most of the glass mastering systems gave you several choices,
with the tightest ones violating the spec.

But if you're issuing on CD-R, you can't really claim to be meeting all
the Red Book specifications anyway, so just grin and bear it. The issues
between pressings and CD-Rs are pretty different.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Steve King]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
| Frank Stearns wrote:
| I've got a project that's going to top out at about 78-79 minutes. Both
the client
| and I don't really want to go to a two CD set. (This will be a short 200
unit run
| burned onto CDr.)
|
| For a pressed CD I don't recommend it. But ask the pressing plant the
| customer is going to use. The issue has to do with how tight a pitch
| the glass mastering system can produce, and how flat the CD can be
| manufactured out near the edge. Most plants won't guarantee them.
|
| But for a CD-R... well, you might as well since the guys doing the
| replication are probably using the tight pitch 80 minute blanks anyway.
|
| All my CDrs these days are 80 min, and hopefully there aren't many of the
really
| old CD players around any more that might have a problem with 74 min
disks...
|
| They ALL might have a problem. The thing is, the groove pitch is tighter
| with the 80 minute disc than with the 74 minute ones, and it's tighter
| with the 74 minute ones than the 63 minute ones. All other things being
| equal, the error rate will be lower with the more relaxed pitch.
|
| And the thing is, the error rate will increase as the disc ages. So you
| may have discs that read fine now, but a decade down the road don't read
| so well. The error issues are cumulative, and maybe everything will be
| fine and maybe it won't be, and you never know until it happens.
|
| But the truth is, the duplication guys are probably going to be doing
| them quick and fast on 80 minute blanks without error monitoring, so
| you'll get what you get no matter how much you put on.
|
| But, am curious as to others' experience deviating from Redbook and into
no-man's
| land between the 74 and 80 minute boundaries. (I even have a Telarc
commercial
| release or two that are 77 minutes.)
|
| Red Book allows a variety of different groove pitches, with 74 being the
| tightest. Most of the glass mastering systems gave you several choices,
| with the tightest ones violating the spec.
|
| But if you're issuing on CD-R, you can't really claim to be meeting all
| the Red Book specifications anyway, so just grin and bear it. The issues
| between pressings and CD-Rs are pretty different.
| --scott
| --
| "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I distribute several thousand CD-R discs each year to corporate clients.
I'm told that there is almost 100% listenership to the discs, because they
contain information vital to the conduct of the listeners' jobs. For the
last 3-4 years all duplicates have been on 80-minute CD-Rs. Program time
has ranged from 50 minutes to 79 1/2 minutes. I have had less than 10
unplayable discs returned for replacement in the 6 years I've been doing
this. Several of those were physically cracked probably in transit by U.S.
mail. The program material is primarily spoken word with music transitions.
The odd skip of audio content is unlikely to be reported, so these results
may not be the full story. Based on my experience I would have no
hesitation going ahead with the project you describe.

Steve King

[William Sommerwerck]

"Chel van Gennip" wrote in message
...

There is a difference between pressed CDs and CD-Rs can have
a smaller pitch than the CD's pressed according to standard.

Not so.

The Red Book _standard_ allows a +/- 10% variation in track pitch. This is
why 80-minute CDs can be mastered that will play on most players. And it is
this variation that allows recordable CDs to be 80-minute.


Therefore there is no problem with a CD-R with 80 minutes (or
even 90 minutes).

I doubt a playable 90-minute CD is possible, let alone playable.

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Therefore there is no problem with a CD-R with 80 minutes (or
even 90 minutes).

I doubt a playable 90-minute CD is possible, let alone playable.

99 minute blancs have been avaialable for long time, and now 90 minute
blancs are at the electronic hypermarts.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[William Sommerwerck]

"Chel van Gennip" wrote in message
...

What factories do support pressed CDs with a smaller
track pitch and 80 minutes?

Lots. I have commercial CDs that run close to 80 minutes.

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Chel van Gennip" wrote in message
...

What factories do support pressed CDs with a smaller
track pitch and 80 minutes?

Lots. I have commercial CDs that run close to 80 minutes.

Most of the plants these days will do it for you BUT they won't make any
guarantees and you have to sign a form stating that if the discs are
unplayable you'll pay for them anyway. The Nimbus glass mastering machine
will do the tight pitch and any plant using the Nimbus that is able to get
a flat enough edge will do an 80 minute disc. And some of them that cannot
get a flat enough edge will do it anyway.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."