Hi!

I'm downsizing homes and will be leaving my very comfortable dedicated
listening room behind. I need some suggestions for both speakers and
headphones that will "keep me in the manner to which I've been accustomed".
The current rig is a number of sources but primarily a SONY XA20ES feeding a
McIntosh C38 to a McCormack DNA 1/B and a pair of Martin Logan SL3s in a
26*15*7 room. I'm not sure of the future room, but best case is 16*11*7 with
a 8*4 notch cut out of the back of the room. I love the clarity and imaging
of the system on all sorts of music, but mainly jazz, symphonic, folk, and
rock.

I'm thinking about the Sennheiser HD600s for phones, but I have no idea
about speakers yet. While I may not need a headphone amp from a power
perspective, I'm curious about what they may be able to do to improve
imaging.

Any and all suggestions are welcome as I haven't even established a real
budget yet.

Dave

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DaveInRedmond wrote:
Hi!

I'm downsizing homes and will be leaving my very comfortable dedicated
listening room behind. I need some suggestions for both speakers and
headphones that will "keep me in the manner to which I've been
accustomed". The current rig is a number of sources but primarily a
SONY XA20ES feeding a McIntosh C38 to a McCormack DNA 1/B and a pair
of Martin Logan SL3s in a 26*15*7 room. I'm not sure of the future
room, but best case is 16*11*7 with a 8*4 notch cut out of the back
of the room. I love the clarity and imaging of the system on all
sorts of music, but mainly jazz, symphonic, folk, and rock.

I'm thinking about the Sennheiser HD600s for phones, but I have no
idea about speakers yet. While I may not need a headphone amp from a
power perspective, I'm curious about what they may be able to do to
improve imaging.

You do not get imaging with normal headphones, it is all IHL "in head
localization". There are some ways to improve this with signal processing,
but AFAIK only with a PC connected and some plugins (Aurora) and CoolEdit.
You need to know how to operate the program and adjust the parameters to get
useful results.
So you want a whole new system just because the room is smaller? Probably
you will get even better results when you spend the money for some
consultant and acoustic treatment of the new room.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

Ban -

Thanx for the comments. I'm aware of the IHL issue which is why I'm
wondering if a headphone amp with processing circuitry may help there.

I'm not looking to replace the whole system by any means, but I feel that I
will not be able to position the SL3s anywhere near properly to get
reasonable sound from them - right now they're about 5 feet in front of the
front wall and 3 feet from the side walls and they sound great in this room.
I'm expecting that monitors may be my next step - I had a pair of 3a Master
Controls quite a few years back and was quite pleased with them, but I
haven't heard their current speakers.

Dave

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"Ban" wrote in message
news:1DSic.32806$_L6.1816754@attbi_s53...
You do not get imaging with normal headphones, it is all IHL "in head
localization". There are some ways to improve this with signal processing,
but AFAIK only with a PC connected and some plugins (Aurora) and CoolEdit.
You need to know how to operate the program and adjust the parameters to
get
useful results.
So you want a whole new system just because the room is smaller? Probably
you will get even better results when you spend the money for some
consultant and acoustic treatment of the new room.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

On 4/25/04 1:32 PM, in article 1DSic.32806$_L6.1816754@attbi_s53, "Ban"
wrote:

I'm thinking about the Sennheiser HD600s for phones, but I have no
idea about speakers yet. While I may not need a headphone amp from a
power perspective, I'm curious about what they may be able to do to
improve imaging.

You do not get imaging with normal headphones, it is all IHL "in head
localization". There are some ways to improve this with signal processing,
but AFAIK only with a PC connected and some plugins (Aurora) and CoolEdit.
You need to know how to operate the program and adjust the parameters to get
useful results.

There are some good headphone sites - at least one has a DSP in a headphone
amp that is supposed to remove the IHL effect - though it may be similar to
the binaural recordings - which still sound IHL to me - though it moves
around in there! :-)


So you want a whole new system just because the room is smaller? Probably
you will get even better results when you spend the money for some
consultant and acoustic treatment of the new room.

Heh - perfect excuse to load up on the gear! :-)

Try your current system in the new room first. I got some Sennheiser
headphones at Radio Shack for $69.95 that aren't bad.

DaveInRedmond wrote:

Hi!

I'm downsizing homes and will be leaving my very comfortable dedicated
listening room behind. I need some suggestions for both speakers and
headphones that will "keep me in the manner to which I've been accustomed".
The current rig is a number of sources but primarily a SONY XA20ES feeding a
McIntosh C38 to a McCormack DNA 1/B and a pair of Martin Logan SL3s in a
26*15*7 room. I'm not sure of the future room, but best case is 16*11*7 with
a 8*4 notch cut out of the back of the room. I love the clarity and imaging
of the system on all sorts of music, but mainly jazz, symphonic, folk, and
rock.

I'm thinking about the Sennheiser HD600s for phones, but I have no idea
about speakers yet. While I may not need a headphone amp from a power
perspective, I'm curious about what they may be able to do to improve
imaging.

Any and all suggestions are welcome as I haven't even established a real
budget yet.

Dave

"Philip Meech" wrote in message
...
Try your current system in the new room first. I got some Sennheiser
headphones at Radio Shack for $69.95 that aren't bad.

Part of the issue is that the old system is in the States and the new one
will be in Canada. I'd like to buy things like headphones and headphone amp
that aren't room dependent down here but will likely defer purchasing the
speakers until I can demo them in my new room with my gear. I'd still like
to get a feel for speaker rcommendations before I move there, tho.

Dave
--
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subject to a fee of US $500.00. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these
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details.

There is a special form you can fill out at customs. Here in Buffalo we
have alot of summer cottages in Ontario. If you fill out the form
saying that you are bring it in to live, there is no duty to bring it
back out again. Otherwise Canada has some of the best speakers in the world
like the Paradigm Signature S2 or the Reference 20, for instance.

DaveInRedmond wrote:

"Philip Meech" wrote in message
...

Try your current system in the new room first. I got some Sennheiser
headphones at Radio Shack for $69.95 that aren't bad.


Part of the issue is that the old system is in the States and the new one
will be in Canada. I'd like to buy things like headphones and headphone amp
that aren't room dependent down here but will likely defer purchasing the
speakers until I can demo them in my new room with my gear. I'd still like
to get a feel for speaker rcommendations before I move there, tho.

Dave

On 4/26/04 7:03 PM, in article , "Philip Meech"
wrote:

There is a special form you can fill out at customs. Here in Buffalo we
have alot of summer cottages in Ontario. If you fill out the form
saying that you are bring it in to live, there is no duty to bring it
back out again. Otherwise Canada has some of the best speakers in the world
like the Paradigm Signature S2 or the Reference 20, for instance.

One of the great things Canada has grown has been a wonderful HiFi
industries! I wonder if it is some of the British influence? Canadian
stuff seems to have a different focus, though, but still - my hat's off to
them!

(Here in Rochester, NY, we can admire Canada almost as much as the
Buffalonians! :-) )

There doesn't seem to be any issue in bringing speakers into Canada when we
return as we are Canadian citizens who have lived outside the country for
more than 5 years. The issue seems to be that it has to be done when we
return, not after we've gotten settled.

The Candian HiFi industry is quite advanced - especially in speakers - due
to a federal plan to develop the industry that seems to have paid off quite
well. I will be quite interested to hear recommendations of Canadian
speakers that will work with the balance of my gear and in that much smaller
room.

As a BTW, I lived for 2 years in Buffalo (right across the street from Buff
State where I did my undergrad), and 2 years in the Falls. Lots of fond
memories of the blizzard of '77 which is why we've chosen to live in place
not exactly renowned for its snowfall ;{)

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"Bromo" wrote in message
news:15ijc.44599$aQ6.2871859@attbi_s51...
On 4/26/04 7:03 PM, in article , "Philip
Meech"
wrote:

There is a special form you can fill out at customs. Here in Buffalo we
have alot of summer cottages in Ontario. If you fill out the form
saying that you are bring it in to live, there is no duty to bring it
back out again. Otherwise Canada has some of the best speakers in the
world
like the Paradigm Signature S2 or the Reference 20, for instance.

One of the great things Canada has grown has been a wonderful HiFi
industries! I wonder if it is some of the British influence? Canadian
stuff seems to have a different focus, though, but still - my hat's off to
them!

(Here in Rochester, NY, we can admire Canada almost as much as the
Buffalonians! :-) )

I'm thinking about the Sennheiser HD600s for phones, but I have no idea
about speakers yet. While I may not need a headphone amp from a power
perspective, I'm curious about what they may be able to do to improve
imaging.

I've got a Headroom headphone amp that has their dedicated aural
processing circuitry (you can switch it off if you like it better
unmodified). I find their circuitry does, as advertised, remove the
unpleasant "its left, right, or in the middle" aspect of headphone
imaging, rendering the sounds as a more comfortably spread out band of
aural images from ear to ear in front of your eyes. I use Sennheiser
HD580s with it (the 600s are the same except for the metal cases, and
the double price). I at first bought it because the phone jack in my
amplifier has too high a noise floor owing to poor design, but I'm happy
that the sound is much improved in many other respects as well. You've
seriously never heard good headphones until you've heard them with a
Headroom.

-Sean

I grew up in the Buff State neighborhood(a townie). I just bought a
Jolida tube amp with Wharfedale
Anniversaries for my home office. I am listening to Celine Dion as I
write this. Very well recorded album.
The search for the ultimate speaker seems endless. This Chinese stuff
offers a great opportunity to non millionaires
to enjoy a high level of audio performance. The French seem to have
emerged as players with Revel and Triangle.
I envy your ability to work on both sides of the border.

DaveInRedmond wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any issue in bringing speakers into Canada when we
return as we are Canadian citizens who have lived outside the country for
more than 5 years. The issue seems to be that it has to be done when we
return, not after we've gotten settled.

The Candian HiFi industry is quite advanced - especially in speakers - due
to a federal plan to develop the industry that seems to have paid off quite
well. I will be quite interested to hear recommendations of Canadian
speakers that will work with the balance of my gear and in that much smaller
room.

As a BTW, I lived for 2 years in Buffalo (right across the street from Buff
State where I did my undergrad), and 2 years in the Falls. Lots of fond
memories of the blizzard of '77 which is why we've chosen to live in place
not exactly renowned for its snowfall ;{)

You do not get imaging with normal headphones, it is all IHL "in head
localization".

Aside from the processing available in Headroom headphone amps which I
feel makes IHL more acceptable (though it is still inside the head, it
is less localized), Stax used to make an expensive model called the
Sigma. The phones had large electrostatic diaphragms in little boxes
that you wore on the ears.
The diaphragm played from the front of the box, facing you, and the
sound was directed via the box into the ear. The effect of having the
actual sound source so far from the ear and facing from the front was
stunning, like having a tiny soundstage in front of your head,
absolutely no IHL, no feeling that the sounds were inside the head at
all. A brilliant product from what I heard auditioning in a store one day.
I wish I had a pair.


-Sean

"DaveInRedmond" wrote:

....snips....

The Candian HiFi industry is quite advanced - especially in speakers - due
to a federal plan to develop the industry that seems to have paid off quite
well. I will be quite interested to hear recommendations of Canadian
speakers that will work with the balance of my gear and in that much smaller
room.

Which included a facility in Ottowa with an anechoic chamber and measurement
equipment which can be rented for a nominal daily rate. In the 70s thru early
90s this program was championed by Dr Floyd Toole who is now VP R&D at Harman
International.

Sean Fulop wrote:
You do not get imaging with normal headphones, it is all IHL "in head
localization".

Aside from the processing available in Headroom headphone amps which I
feel makes IHL more acceptable (though it is still inside the head, it
is less localized), Stax used to make an expensive model called the
Sigma. The phones had large electrostatic diaphragms in little boxes
that you wore on the ears.
The diaphragm played from the front of the box, facing you, and the
sound was directed via the box into the ear. The effect of having the
actual sound source so far from the ear and facing from the front was
stunning, like having a tiny soundstage in front of your head,
absolutely no IHL, no feeling that the sounds were inside the head at
all. A brilliant product from what I heard auditioning in a store
one day. I wish I had a pair.

Right and not to forget the "Jacklin Floats", made in the 70ties by this
Swiss inventor. Beautiful soundstage, 3-dimensional. But a drag to wear this
thing on the head and looking funny, but what are we not ready to do for a
good sound, yeah.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

(Nousaine) wrote in message ...
"DaveInRedmond" wrote:

...snips....

The Candian HiFi industry is quite advanced - especially in speakers - due
to a federal plan to develop the industry that seems to have paid off quite
well. I will be quite interested to hear recommendations of Canadian
speakers that will work with the balance of my gear and in that much smaller
room.

Which included a facility in Ottowa with an anechoic chamber and measurement
equipment which can be rented for a nominal daily rate. In the 70s thru early
90s this program was championed by Dr Floyd Toole who is now VP R&D at Harman
International.

It's worth recognizing the engineering and commercial success that
Energy, PBS, Paradigm, and several other speaker lines, have enjoyed
while benefitting from that facility and Dr. Toole & his colleagues'
work.

"Ban" wrote:

Sean Fulop wrote:
You do not get imaging with normal headphones, it
is all IHL "in head localization".

snip
Stax used to make an expensive model called the
Sigma. The phones had large electrostatic
diaphragms in little boxes that you wore on the ears.
The diaphragm played from the front of the box,
facing you, and the sound was directed via the
box into the ear. The effect of having the
actual sound source so far from the ear and facing
from the front was stunning
snip

Right and not to forget the "Jacklin Floats", made in the
70ties by this Swiss inventor.

Note that "Ban" is talking about Jecklin Floats, for those that
were wondering why Google doesn't return anything relevant when
'Jacklin floats' is entered...


Regards,

-Eric-

Hi,
I too have used the HD600 and HD580 (have not heard the new 650's yet). We
use the 600's at work a lot. Both are excellent phones, but for home
(unless money is no object), the 580's are a damn good deal!

Dave

"DaveInRedmond" wrote in message
...
Hi!

I'm downsizing homes and will be leaving my very comfortable dedicated
listening room behind. I need some suggestions for both speakers and
headphones that will "keep me in the manner to which I've been
accustomed".
The current rig is a number of sources but primarily a SONY XA20ES feeding
a
McIntosh C38 to a McCormack DNA 1/B and a pair of Martin Logan SL3s in a
26*15*7 room. I'm not sure of the future room, but best case is 16*11*7
with
a 8*4 notch cut out of the back of the room. I love the clarity and
imaging
of the system on all sorts of music, but mainly jazz, symphonic, folk, and
rock.

I'm thinking about the Sennheiser HD600s for phones, but I have no idea
about speakers yet. While I may not need a headphone amp from a power
perspective, I'm curious about what they may be able to do to improve
imaging.

Any and all suggestions are welcome as I haven't even established a real
budget yet.

Dave

--
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Pursuant to U.S. code, title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section 227
Any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is
subject to a fee of US $500.00. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these
terms. Consult http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html for
details.

I've purchased the HD600s from Meier Audio. Gotta show some patience as
it'll be another week or so until they arrive...

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"Dave Yeager" wrote in message
newsOyoc.78017$0H1.7277975@attbi_s54...
Hi,
I too have used the HD600 and HD580 (have not heard the new 650's yet).
We
use the 600's at work a lot. Both are excellent phones, but for home
(unless money is no object), the 580's are a damn good deal!

Dave

"DaveInRedmond" wrote in message
...
Hi!

I'm downsizing homes and will be leaving my very comfortable dedicated
listening room behind. I need some suggestions for both speakers and
headphones that will "keep me in the manner to which I've been
accustomed".
The current rig is a number of sources but primarily a SONY XA20ES
feeding
a
McIntosh C38 to a McCormack DNA 1/B and a pair of Martin Logan SL3s in a
26*15*7 room. I'm not sure of the future room, but best case is 16*11*7
with
a 8*4 notch cut out of the back of the room. I love the clarity and
imaging
of the system on all sorts of music, but mainly jazz, symphonic, folk,
and
rock.

I'm thinking about the Sennheiser HD600s for phones, but I have no idea
about speakers yet. While I may not need a headphone amp from a power
perspective, I'm curious about what they may be able to do to improve
imaging.

Any and all suggestions are welcome as I haven't even established a real
budget yet.

Dave

--
.................................................. ....................


Pursuant to U.S. code, title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section 227
Any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is
subject to a fee of US $500.00. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these
terms. Consult http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html for
details.