[Dar]

The attic space I'll be using has common fiberglass insulation bats
along one wall and in the cieling. The bats are paper covered and I
would like to know if it's ok to leave them as-is or should I cover
them with fabric (burlap, prersumably) .

There's some rigid fiberglass panels that have been sitting up there
for 15 years , and I can use them along the brick wall (after they
are covered with burlap). So that's cool, but what about the paper
bats?.

DS

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:00:42 -0000, Dar wrote:

The attic space I'll be using has common fiberglass insulation bats
along one wall and in the cieling. The bats are paper covered and I
would like to know if it's ok to leave them as-is or should I cover
them with fabric (burlap, prersumably) .

There's some rigid fiberglass panels that have been sitting up there
for 15 years , and I can use them along the brick wall (after they
are covered with burlap). So that's cool, but what about the paper
bats?.

Your name looks familiar, but you'll get a much broader and
more useful response if you'll include a lot more about your
project, or post within an existing thread. It's just the
way that a busy newsgroup flows; folks who may have lots
of good useful information have their own gigs and lives
and can't pick up on somebody else's without some ref's.

All the best fortune,

Chris Hornbeck

[Richard Crowley]

"Dar" wrote ...
The attic space I'll be using has common fiberglass insulation bats
along one wall and in the cieling. The bats are paper covered and I
would like to know if it's ok to leave them as-is or should I cover
them with fabric (burlap, prersumably) .

This seems more like a decorating question than an audio
question. Burlap or no burlap is likely to make little difference
in the reflective/absorbtive properties of the surface (except
whatever the burlap might do). The paper covering diminishes
much of the potential sound absorbtion of the fiberglass, but
not recommended to remove it. The paper may have some
other purpose such as fireproofing or vapor barrier, etc. which
should not be tampered with.

There's some rigid fiberglass panels that have been sitting up there
for 15 years , and I can use them along the brick wall (after they
are covered with burlap). So that's cool, but what about the paper
bats?.

Not sure how much acoustic benefit one would get from
rigid panels, but perhaps less reflective than brick. Hanging
something like moving pads (etc.) over the brick may be
more effective at diminishing hard reflection.

[Ethan Winer]

Dar,

The bats are paper covered and I would like to know if it's ok to leave
them as-is or should I cover them with fabric (burlap, prersumably).

Paper covering reduces absorption at mid and high frequencies, but not at
low frequencies. Paper is fine EXCEPT at first reflection points.

There's some rigid fiberglass panels that have been sitting up there for
15 years , and I can use them along the brick wall

The usefulness of rigid fiberglass depends on how thick it is. Two inches
thick is good for mid/high frequencies, but you need three to four inches
thick (or more) for corner bass traps. Multiple thin panels can be stacked
adjacent (no need to glue them) to make thicker panels.

--Ethan

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 9, 11:00 pm, Dar wrote:
The attic space I'll be using has common fiberglass insulation bats
along one wall and in the cieling. The bats are paper covered and I
would like to know if it's ok to leave them as-is or should I cover
them with fabric (burlap, prersumably) .

If they're exposed, you probably should cover them with something to
keep the Fiberglas threads from dropping down on to your equipment and
your body. It itches. Even though there's paper covering the bats,
it's not very well sealed.

I'd go for a coarse weave cloth such as burlap though some say the
fibers in burlap are too tough and tend to make it into a more
reflective surface than the Fiberglas. That might already be negated
by the paper surface, though. Consider it an cosmetic and practical
(to reduce the itching) decision rather than an acoustic one.

[Dar]

On Nov 10, 6:54 am, "Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com
wrote:
Dar,

The bats are paper covered and I would like to know if it's ok to leave
them as-is or should I cover them with fabric (burlap, prersumably).

Paper covering reduces absorption at mid and high frequencies, but not at
low frequencies. Paper is fine EXCEPT at first reflection points.

There's some rigid fiberglass panels that have been sitting up there for
15 years , and I can use them along the brick wall

The usefulness of rigid fiberglass depends on how thick it is. Two inches
thick is good for mid/high frequencies, but you need three to four inches
thick (or more) for corner bass traps. Multiple thin panels can be stacked
adjacent (no need to glue them) to make thicker panels.

--Ethan

OK, then I guess I need to ask specifically about acoustic guitar, and
how important
it is to treat it's bass . Does a room that will only be ised for a.g.
need the beefy
bass traps that are used for say, bands with electric bass?.

The space I'll be using is attic , with 4' ceiling (with the paper-
covered bats) . One long wall to the left
also with paper/bats, one short wall to the right that stops at about
the distance where I'll be playing , so the space in front of me on
the right opens out into the upper area of a warehouse-type space,
cluttered.
In front is long, low, cluttered attic space with paper/bats the whole
length . Floor is rough wood, some carpet , moveable.
The area that seems like it will need most treatment is behind , and
it's about 7 feet back to a brick wall .
Since I'm facing away from that wall it doesn't seem like the a.g.
will be reflecting off of it that much , not early reflections
anyway, but I will at least put up the 2" rigid fiberglass and corner
traps (same material probably) , or some thick blanket
thing or both . Maybe some heavy cloth along the ceiling because of
the paper and because it's so low. Seems like the long area out front
and open area off to the right will make for a decent situation with a
bit of work on the back wall and corners .

Thanks,

Dar

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 11, 4:34 am, Dar wrote:
OK, then I guess I need to ask specifically about acoustic guitar, and
how important
it is to treat it's bass . Does a room that will only be ised for a.g.
need the beefy
bass traps that are used for say, bands with electric bass?.

You will absolutely need to control the bass in your room for
recording acoustic guitar, or voice, or just about anything.

The space I'll be using is attic , with 4' ceiling

A four foot ceiling? How short are you? Do you plan to sit on the
floor when you're recording? Sorry, but I can't begin to conceive of
your space from your written description. Can you take a few photos
and post them on Photobucket or other free file-sharing site of your
choice, or a web page of your own?

[Ethan Winer]

Does a room that will only be ised for a.g. need the beefy
bass traps that are used for say, bands with electric bass?.

As Mike said, you need bass traps, period. :-)

See this for much more info:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

--Ethan

[Dar]

On Nov 11, 9:18 am, "Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com
wrote:
Does a room that will only be ised for a.g. need the beefy
bass traps that are used for say, bands with electric bass?.

As Mike said, you need bass traps, period. :-)

See this for much more info:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

--Ethan

Yeah I went there but came here because asking a few lame questions is
so much easier than actually educating myself g just kidding ... I
do
need to go back and read that whole thing . Thanks.
DS

[Dar]

On Nov 11, 6:34 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 11, 4:34 am, Dar wrote:

OK, then I guess I need to ask specifically about acoustic guitar, and
how important
it is to treat it's bass . Does a room that will only be ised for a.g.
need the beefy
bass traps that are used for say, bands with electric bass?.

You will absolutely need to control the bass in your room for
recording acoustic guitar, or voice, or just about anything.

The space I'll be using is attic , with 4' ceiling

A four foot ceiling? How short are you? Do you plan to sit on the
floor when you're recording? Sorry, but I can't begin to conceive of
your space from your written description. Can you take a few photos
and post them on Photobucket or other free file-sharing site of your
choice, or a web page of your own?


All I have on Photobucket now is hairy chihuahuas g
Most likely I'll take pix of the rec. space after it's done , and I
warn you beforehand , it will
be a frightful sight. No pristine studio space , mine , but a funky
old attic space
that's for storage and junk collecting , not all of it cleaned up from
when the roofing
guys scraped the roof and let massive amounts of tar scraps fall
through the cracks.
Anyway, our building is a 13 foot high warehouse with living area
added to one side .
The shop side http://www.sheltech.net/home.html is also 13' high
but with parts
built with storage 'floors' at about 9 feet , leaving that upper 4
feet for my computers
as well. Along one side is the space in question , running the length
of the room
(20 feet ) and about 8 feet deep . So it's about 20 ' long , 4'
high, and 8 feet deep
with the whole 20' side open . And I do just fit in nicely sitting in
a (chopped)
office chair . Blog off ........ (ps, Spam Sunday , jeezz...)

Dar

[Ethan Winer]

asking a few lame questions is so much easier than actually educating
myself g just kidding ... I do need to go back and read that whole
thing.

This brings up a good point. If you want to avoid weeks / months of
learning, and the risk of buying materials and doing a lot of work only to
have it come out wrong, and just want to nail the best treatment possible
immediately, call my company RealTraps and throw a coupla thou our way. I
promise you won't have to learn a thing. :-) On the other hand, if you want
to do it as cheaply as possible, then you have no choice but to do your
homework.

--Ethan

[Dar]

On Nov 12, 7:18 am, "Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com
wrote:
asking a few lame questions is so much easier than actually educating
myself g just kidding ... I do need to go back and read that whole
thing.

This brings up a good point. If you want to avoid weeks / months of
learning, and the risk of buying materials and doing a lot of work only to
have it come out wrong, and just want to nail the best treatment possible
immediately, call my company RealTraps and throw a coupla thou our way. I
promise you won't have to learn a thing. :-) On the other hand, if you want
to do it as cheaply as possible, then you have no choice but to do your
homework.

--Ethan

One good jibe deserves another g .
I don't think I'll have to do very much or learn very much more
if I approach the space the right way. I had been thinking in
terms of being confined by the space , playing guitar sitting back in
the
more-enclosed area , where there are all sorts of flat, reflective
surfaces
to deal with. It dawned on me that I didn't have to do that; I could
move out
from the cubicle-like area and sit close the the edge of the open
space , facing
out towards the workshop below . That scenario leaves me with many
less
vertical reflective spots , several less corners ; mostly the ceiling
(paper-covered
fiberglass bats ) and floor (wood currently scattered with styrofoam
packing
popcorn , which I may just leave there ) . I think I can do pretty
nicely with
some doubled-up 2" fiberglass boards as bass traps along the wall
junctions,
and some corrugated packing cardboard stuck to various small , flat ,
hard
objects that can't be moved , to scatter sound . My level of clutter
helps
there as well . I'll see how it goes anyway . I remmeber many moons
ago
moving my shop equipment into the warehouse ; it was empty and had a
nice echo
even though it isn't very big . Now it's packed so full of stuff
there's no echo at all.
Sound just scatters everywhere . Here's one pic of downstairs (where I
recorded
last year and may have to againg)
http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com/...20sheltech.jpg

and since it's posted right there too, Cougar Booger , the infamous
tail-sucking Singapura
http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com/...83-1255+00.htm

News From Nowhere ...

DS


DS

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 12, 4:30 pm, Dar wrote:

Sound just scatters everywhere . Here's one pic of downstairs (where I
recorded
last year and may have to againg)

That looks about like my garage. Think of the great disbursion. g

[Dar]

On Nov 12, 3:37 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 12, 4:30 pm, Dar wrote:

Sound just scatters everywhere . Here's one pic of downstairs (where I
recorded
last year and may have to againg)

That looks about like my garage. Think of the great disbursion. g

Yeah, one more excuse to never ever clean it up very well g

DS