Selecting components for your system in your own audio space.

This has been stated in many ways before, but I think it bears
repeating, in the light of a few that somehow takes an offense
to it.

Should an individual decide on upgrading or changing his/her
system, that decision is personal, not related to objectionable
stances taken by others.

If an individual decides to sit down in his own private listening
space and changes speakers, or wires, amplifiers, cdplayer
or any component, then so be it! He deserves the right to
determine what is a bit better to his listening processes.

If amplifier A is better in his environment..again, so be it!
The method in which he makes this decision is really his
alone. Any intrusive, arrogance from another is not
really needed or asked for. He must be allowed to select
whatever he feels that has a given edge in his audio domain.
If he decides to change things in 2 weeks..again so be it!!

In this audio domain..a few fundamentals are in order.
There are three basic factors involved he

1. The hardware..that generates the audio spectrum.
This includes amplifiers, cables, speakers, etc.

2. The atmospherics, air, and room acoustics that
allow the sound waves to reach the Ear-Brain
processes.

3. The individual..with his own unique ear-brain
processes...and, importantly his interpertation
of what he is hearing. This has little to do
with linearities in item 1. This can create distortions,
truths, dream-worlds and a myriad of issues not
yet fully understood. At this point in time we do
not know how to deal with these variables. The
efforts involving "bias", etc. do not address
some fundamentals we do not understand.
That we do not "understand" at this point in time
is an insult to some in these Audio endeavors.

So much is written on these groups about the linearity
and sameness involved in item 1. Not necessarily a
dominate factor considering item 2 can change
everything headed toward the individual and his
ears. Atmospheric pressure, humidity...acoustically
dead rooms, ultra bright rooms..etc.

Then there is factor 3. where the most variability can
be a factor...mind you, one cannot dwell on item 1.
without taking into consideration item 2 and 3....
Each individual varies in his internal chemical balances
at any given moment. So important, in the brain
interpretation process...and on and on!

The point here is that this is a "triumvirate" of interlocking
factors..one cannot logically remove item 3. The process
is not complete without all three items being present.
Many amplifier circuits have designed by "meters" in
a theoretical scenario..then they join the "real world"
and add item 2 and 3 and the amplifier is not acceptable.

Much disk space, on many servers, has been taken up
involving item 1 alone! None will be complete without
2. and 3. The variables here are staggering, and not
truly recognized by many that discuss these audio
factors. Dwelling on item 1 and its linearities will
not rectify issues created in items 2 and 3.

Perhaps, I have covered some fundamentals here that
are integral in this listening process.

Most of us hear differences in this Audio Domain.
Be happy in your work in this Audio process..
It is a complex jungle!

Leonard...
___________________________________________

P.S. Just purchased a Pioneer 563A DVD-Cd player.
Plays every format virtually known to man! Sacd,
DVD-a, most of the computer generated formats!

We are witnessing a revolution in electronics!!
This unit is amazing. Current cost $149...lower
at some mail order houses. I purchased it at
Circuit City...Best Buy was out of stock.
SACD is there! Extremely minor* differences between
high end playback when attached to a high end system.
Regular CD playback in my environment is very good..
acceptable for everyday use!! This is using my major
system cables, amp, pre-amp...and a wall hidden from
view by way of a bank of Magnapan Tympani IV speakers.
(Circa 1984 with replaced ribbons and Planar magentics)

I fear this unit might not make it upstairs as the DVD player
for my gift I received at Christmas..a Hitachi 57inch HDTV.
..I'm still gawking at the definition..the HD Travelogs are
spell-binding on these things. A recent tour of Venice
showed in beautiful detail the workmanship on the Gondolas
and the lack of paint on some of the buildings and the
trash in the canals...a vivid contrast.
_____________________________________________

* some depth missing..noticeable when comparing to a
really good "far too expensive" player. But, not as noticeable
when listening a bit louder than normal levels! But! $149!!
Good well rounded bass, balanced upper register with
sufficient body..not the expected thin characterless
image I feared I'd hear. The tray is smooth operating,
quiet and the unit runs only mildly warm to the touch.

Strongly recommended for anyone thinking about
getting into SACD. Haven't tried any DVD-A yet...
But other reviews are positive. Gads $149! One
has to give the Engineers at Pioneer an honorary
bow!!

(Non relevant comment...I still miss "Counterpoint")

lcw999 wrote in message
news:edo2c.57812$ko6.406486@attbi_s02...
Selecting components for your system in your own audio space.

This has been stated in many ways before, but I think it bears
repeating, in the light of a few that somehow takes an offense
to it.

Should an individual decide on upgrading or changing his/her
system, that decision is personal, not related to objectionable
stances taken by others.

If an individual decides to sit down in his own private listening
space and changes speakers, or wires, amplifiers, cdplayer
or any component, then so be it! He deserves the right to
determine what is a bit better to his listening processes.

If amplifier A is better in his environment..again, so be it!
The method in which he makes this decision is really his
alone. Any intrusive, arrogance from another is not really needed or
asked for. He must be allowed to select
whatever he feels that has a given edge in his audio domain. If he
decides to change things in 2 weeks..again so be it!!

And no one is arguing otherwise. You seem to be misinterpreting the
discussion here. Everyone here agrees that, in choosing your own system, you
should use whatever approach suits you. No approach is wrong.

But IF you want to claim that two components are or are not audibly
distinguishable, THEN you must conduct your listening comparison according
to certain principles. As long as people stay away from those sorts of
claims, no one will challenge them. In fact, the moderators won't allow such
a challenge.

In this audio domain..a few fundamentals are in order.
There are three basic factors involved he

1. The hardware..that generates the audio spectrum.
This includes amplifiers, cables, speakers, etc.

Actually, #1 is the recording you're listening to, but that's not relevant
to the point you're making.

2. The atmospherics, air, and room acoustics that
allow the sound waves to reach the Ear-Brain
processes.

3. The individual..with his own unique ear-brain
processes...and, importantly his interpertation
of what he is hearing. This has little to do
with linearities in item 1.

Actually, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the linearities in #1. They
are completely independent.

This can create distortions,
truths, dream-worlds and a myriad of issues not
yet fully understood. At this point in time we do
not know how to deal with these variables. The
efforts involving "bias", etc. do not address
some fundamentals we do not understand.

But they aren't meant to address the mental processes we don't understand.
They are meant to address mental processes we understand quite well, but
that some folks would wish away.

That we do not "understand" at this point in time
is an insult to some in these Audio endeavors.

Who's insulted? The problem is caused by people who want to deny things we
DO understand.

So much is written on these groups about the linearity
and sameness involved in item 1. Not necessarily a
dominate factor considering item 2 can change everything headed toward
the individual and his
ears. Atmospheric pressure, humidity...acoustically
dead rooms, ultra bright rooms..etc.

Here you make a logical error. It is certainly true that room interactions
can have a major effect on the sound you hear, but in a good listening
comparison they are irrelevant because they are held constant.

Then there is factor 3. where the most variability can
be a factor...mind you, one cannot dwell on item 1.
without taking into consideration item 2 and 3....

You can if you hold 2 and 3 constant, which is what we try to do in good
listening tests.

Each individual varies in his internal chemical balances
at any given moment. So important, in the brain
interpretation process...and on and on!

The point here is that this is a "triumvirate" of interlocking
factors..one cannot logically remove item 3. The process
is not complete without all three items being present.
Many amplifier circuits have designed by "meters" in
a theoretical scenario..then they join the "real world"
and add item 2 and 3 and the amplifier is not acceptable.

If you mean that somebody can listen to a competent amplifier (i.e., flat
frequency response, not clipping) and not like the sound, that is true. And
if you tell me you don't like the sound of that amplifier, well, that's your
business. But if you tell me that your dislike of that amplifier PROVES that
amplifiers are audibly distinguishable, then you've made an empirical
statement that is highly debatable.
Much disk space, on many servers, has been taken up involving item 1
alone! None will be complete without
2. and 3. The variables here are staggering, and not
truly recognized by many that discuss these audio
factors. Dwelling on item 1 and its linearities will
not rectify issues created in items 2 and 3.

Perhaps, I have covered some fundamentals here that are integral in
this listening process.

Most of us hear differences in this Audio Domain. Be happy in your
work in this Audio process..
It is a complex jungle!

But not quite as complex as some people make it out to be.

bob

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