[RobertL]

On Jul 10, 1:09 am, EADGBE wrote:
I bought a used Nakamichi TA-4A Stasis receiver and I am currently
using it in a spare room to amplify a DVD
player.

I have a 13 year old son who never turns things off. And by "never" I
mean NEVER EVER.

Every time he uses the receiver to watch a DVD, he simply walks away
from it when he is finished.

Today I came home from work and found it on. He had used it that
morning, so I estimate that this amplifier had been on for about _8_
solid hours when I came home and discovered it.

Is this bad for it? It has good ventilation all round it, but it was
quite warm from being on so long.

Should I ban him from using the receiver, or am I being needlessly
picky?

IME it's the switches and buttons on these things that usually wear
out first. Also electrical faults usually arise during the power-up
process. So, he's actually helping your amp to have a long life.

Robert

[Eeyore]

RobertL wrote:

Also electrical faults usually arise during the power-up
process.

Largely myth. The change in temperature as things warm up may REVEAL some faults
though.

Graham

[Trevor Wilson]

"EADGBE" wrote in message
ups.com...
I bought a used Nakamichi TA-4A Stasis receiver and I am currently
using it in a spare room to amplify a DVD
player.

I have a 13 year old son who never turns things off. And by "never" I
mean NEVER EVER.

Every time he uses the receiver to watch a DVD, he simply walks away
from it when he is finished.

Today I came home from work and found it on. He had used it that
morning, so I estimate that this amplifier had been on for about _8_
solid hours when I came home and discovered it.

Is this bad for it? It has good ventilation all round it, but it was
quite warm from being on so long.

Should I ban him from using the receiver, or am I being needlessly
picky?

**Nope, you're not. Apart form the needless waste of energy and additional
greenhouse effects (which he and his generation will have to deal with) all
electrolytic capacitors within the amplifier will wear out faster.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
**Nope, you're not. Apart form the needless waste of energy and
additional greenhouse effects (which he and his generation will have to
deal with) all electrolytic capacitors within the amplifier will wear
out faster.

And by the time they do he'll have his own teenager to shout at...

--
*Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Codifus]

On Jul 10, 12:04 am, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:
"EADGBE" wrote in message

ups.com...



I bought a used Nakamichi TA-4A Stasis receiver and I am currently
using it in a spare room to amplify a DVD
player.

I have a 13 year old son who never turns things off. And by "never" I
mean NEVER EVER.

Every time he uses the receiver to watch a DVD, he simply walks away
from it when he is finished.

Today I came home from work and found it on. He had used it that
morning, so I estimate that this amplifier had been on for about _8_
solid hours when I came home and discovered it.

Is this bad for it? It has good ventilation all round it, but it was
quite warm from being on so long.

Should I ban him from using the receiver, or am I being needlessly
picky?

**Nope, you're not. Apart form the needless waste of energy and additional
greenhouse effects (which he and his generation will have to deal with) all
electrolytic capacitors within the amplifier will wear out faster.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?
I bet the power switch will war out before then. The amp will be fine,
but it just won't trun on.

CD

[Eeyore]

codifus wrote:

What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?

Depends on use.


I bet the power switch will war out before then.

Unlikely. They need to be moderately robust these days or they'll likely fail
safety compliance tests.

Graham

[Codifus]

Eeyore wrote:

codifus wrote:


What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?


Depends on use.



I bet the power switch will war out before then.


Unlikely. They need to be moderately robust these days or they'll likely fail
safety compliance tests.

Graham

Fair enough. From now, I'll turn my amp off when not in use. If the
power switch fails however, I'm coming after you and Mr. Wilson

By the way, I took up this habit of leaving the power on after my
previous amplifier, an Onkyo 8500, became somwhat useless because the
input selector (Tuner, Aux, CD etc) developed connectivity problems.
When listening to music the soundstage would gradually fade to left and
eventually the right channel would be off. Fiddling with the input
buttons fixed it temporarily. I've had a technician solder the
problematic circuit and that lasted about 2 months. The amp still works
fine if you fiddle with it, but that can get incredibly annoying. If not
for that, I would still be using it.

My replacement Yamaha has a different type input slector, if I select
from the remote, there are no moving parts. Just the LEDs change. The
power button on the Yamaha, though doesn't feel as "robust" as the power
button on my old Onkyo.

Anyway, we'll see . . . . . .
CD

[Trevor Wilson]

"Codifus" wrote in message
...
Eeyore wrote:

codifus wrote:


What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?


Depends on use.



I bet the power switch will war out before then.


Unlikely. They need to be moderately robust these days or they'll likely
fail
safety compliance tests.

Graham

Fair enough. From now, I'll turn my amp off when not in use. If the power
switch fails however, I'm coming after you and Mr. Wilson

**Good luck with that. Power switches tend to be VERY reliable.
Manufacturers tend to like to avoid court cases. They make the switches to
some tough specs. Most are designed to me UL specs, or the even tougher
European specs.


By the way, I took up this habit of leaving the power on after my previous
amplifier, an Onkyo 8500, became somwhat useless because the input
selector (Tuner, Aux, CD etc) developed connectivity problems. When
listening to music the soundstage would gradually fade to left and
eventually the right channel would be off. Fiddling with the input buttons
fixed it temporarily. I've had a technician solder the problematic
circuit and that lasted about 2 months. The amp still works fine if you
fiddle with it, but that can get incredibly annoying. If not for that, I
would still be using it.

**ALL the other switches in your amp are not required to meet any specs.
Manufacturers choose the cheapest available part. Soldering won't help. You
need to replace the switch.


My replacement Yamaha has a different type input slector, if I select from
the remote, there are no moving parts. Just the LEDs change. The power
button on the Yamaha, though doesn't feel as "robust" as the power button
on my old Onkyo.

Anyway, we'll see . . . . . .

**Many modern power switches send a signal to a microprocessor, which, in
turn, operates a relay. Those switches rarely fail. Microprocessors
sometimes fail (or the crystal). Relays rarely fail. The small, auxiliary
transformer, which powers the remote switch on circuit fail somewhat more
often. The chip which controls the input switching sometimes fail, but less
often than most switches.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Trevor Wilson]

"codifus" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 10, 12:04 am, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:
"EADGBE" wrote in message

ups.com...



I bought a used Nakamichi TA-4A Stasis receiver and I am currently
using it in a spare room to amplify a DVD
player.

I have a 13 year old son who never turns things off. And by "never" I
mean NEVER EVER.

Every time he uses the receiver to watch a DVD, he simply walks away
from it when he is finished.

Today I came home from work and found it on. He had used it that
morning, so I estimate that this amplifier had been on for about _8_
solid hours when I came home and discovered it.

Is this bad for it? It has good ventilation all round it, but it was
quite warm from being on so long.

Should I ban him from using the receiver, or am I being needlessly
picky?

**Nope, you're not. Apart form the needless waste of energy and
additional
greenhouse effects (which he and his generation will have to deal with)
all
electrolytic capacitors within the amplifier will wear out faster.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?
I bet the power switch will war out before then. The amp will be fine,
but it just won't trun on.

**Depends on the electro. So-called 'computer grade' or mil-spec caps are
typically rated for 100,000 hours @ 105oC. The types of caps used in
domestic equipment are more likely to be rated for between 5,000 and 10,000
hours @ 85oC. At the lower temps found in domestic equipment (say: 50oC) you
could expect roughly 4 times longer life. That equates to around 2.2 years
of continuous operation (worst case). Assuming, of course, that the caps
have been designed and constructed correctly. Some will not last that long.
Some will last longer. Some localised heating can occur inside amps, which
raise the temperature of caps to very high levels. I've seen designs where
resistors, adjacent to caps are allowed to exceed 140oC. Those caps can
easily be operated at 100oC without the amplifier being noticeably warm.
BTW: Most bi-polar caps (the type found in most speaker crossovers) have a
rated life of around 2,000 hours. Sobering thought, huh?

More seriously, of course, is the collateral damage which can be caused by a
failing capacitor. The gunk inside can be quite corrosive.

Moral: When not in use, turn it off.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Eeyore]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"codifus" wrote in message

What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?
I bet the power switch will war out before then. The amp will be fine,
but it just won't trun on.

**Depends on the electro. So-called 'computer grade' or mil-spec caps are
typically rated for 100,000 hours @ 105oC.

I don't recall any electrolytic specs over 10,000 hrs ever.

Alternatively please supply a spec that says they're good for 100,000 hrs.


The types of caps used in domestic equipment are more likely to be rated for
between 5,000 and 10,000 hours @ 85oC.

More like anywhere between 1000 - 4000 hrs actually.

Of course these specs are at full rated temp and ripple current, so actual
lifetimes in real world operating conditions tend to be a lot longer. Life
doubles for every 10C below rated temp. Coupling caps that carry almost no
current will simply keep working until the electrolyte's almost dried up but
will gradually lose capacitance with age..

Graham

[Trevor Wilson]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Trevor Wilson wrote:

"codifus" wrote in message

What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?
I bet the power switch will war out before then. The amp will be fine,
but it just won't trun on.

**Depends on the electro. So-called 'computer grade' or mil-spec caps are
typically rated for 100,000 hours @ 105oC.

I don't recall any electrolytic specs over 10,000 hrs ever.

Alternatively please supply a spec that says they're good for 100,000 hrs.

**Good point. I re-checked and the 100,000 hour life span is for a
significantly reduced temperature. Typically 40oC.





The types of caps used in domestic equipment are more likely to be rated
for
between 5,000 and 10,000 hours @ 85oC.

More like anywhere between 1000 - 4000 hrs actually.

**Like I said: I cheked. Between 500 and 12,000 hours appears to be the
usual range. Of course, for domestic stuff, your cite of 4,000 hours
(maximum) is probably close to the mark.


Of course these specs are at full rated temp and ripple current, so actual
lifetimes in real world operating conditions tend to be a lot longer. Life
doubles for every 10C below rated temp. Coupling caps that carry almost no
current will simply keep working until the electrolyte's almost dried up
but
will gradually lose capacitance with age..

**Yep. Except that coupling caps are hardly an issue in a modern amp.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Trevor Wilson]

"Signal" wrote in message
...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote:

I bought a used Nakamichi TA-4A Stasis receiver and I am currently
using it in a spare room to amplify a DVD
player.

I have a 13 year old son who never turns things off. And by "never"
I
mean NEVER EVER.

Every time he uses the receiver to watch a DVD, he simply walks away
from it when he is finished.

Today I came home from work and found it on. He had used it that
morning, so I estimate that this amplifier had been on for about _8_
solid hours when I came home and discovered it.

Is this bad for it? It has good ventilation all round it, but it was
quite warm from being on so long.

Should I ban him from using the receiver, or am I being needlessly
picky?

**Nope, you're not. Apart form the needless waste of energy and
additional
greenhouse effects (which he and his generation will have to deal with)
all
electrolytic capacitors within the amplifier will wear out faster.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?
I bet the power switch will war out before then. The amp will be fine,
but it just won't trun on.

**Depends on the electro. So-called 'computer grade' or mil-spec caps are
typically rated for 100,000 hours @ 105oC. The types of caps used in
domestic equipment are more likely to be rated for between 5,000 and
10,000
hours @ 85oC. At the lower temps found in domestic equipment (say: 50oC)
you
could expect roughly 4 times longer life. That equates to around 2.2 years
of continuous operation (worst case). Assuming, of course, that the caps
have been designed and constructed correctly. Some will not last that
long.
Some will last longer. Some localised heating can occur inside amps, which
raise the temperature of caps to very high levels. I've seen designs where
resistors, adjacent to caps are allowed to exceed 140oC. Those caps can
easily be operated at 100oC without the amplifier being noticeably warm.
BTW: Most bi-polar caps (the type found in most speaker crossovers) have a
rated life of around 2,000 hours. Sobering thought, huh?

More seriously, of course, is the collateral damage which can be caused by
a
failing capacitor. The gunk inside can be quite corrosive.

Moral: When not in use, turn it off.

What's about equipment with "standby" mode?

**For me, I turn stuff off, with a 'hard' switch, wherever possible. Others
may not share such an approach. For many items, with a (say) 1 Watt standby
power, it's pretty much academic. Many items consume much more power when in
standby, however. They are the real culprits. They will have premature
capacitor failures and they add to the greenhouse problem.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Serge Auckland]

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Signal" wrote in message
...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote:

I bought a used Nakamichi TA-4A Stasis receiver and I am currently
using it in a spare room to amplify a DVD
player.

I have a 13 year old son who never turns things off. And by "never"
I
mean NEVER EVER.

Every time he uses the receiver to watch a DVD, he simply walks away
from it when he is finished.

Today I came home from work and found it on. He had used it that
morning, so I estimate that this amplifier had been on for about _8_
solid hours when I came home and discovered it.

Is this bad for it? It has good ventilation all round it, but it
was
quite warm from being on so long.

Should I ban him from using the receiver, or am I being needlessly
picky?

**Nope, you're not. Apart form the needless waste of energy and
additional
greenhouse effects (which he and his generation will have to deal
with)
all
electrolytic capacitors within the amplifier will wear out faster.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

What's the normal lifespan of an electrolytic capacitor? 10, 15 years?
I bet the power switch will war out before then. The amp will be fine,
but it just won't trun on.

**Depends on the electro. So-called 'computer grade' or mil-spec caps are
typically rated for 100,000 hours @ 105oC. The types of caps used in
domestic equipment are more likely to be rated for between 5,000 and
10,000
hours @ 85oC. At the lower temps found in domestic equipment (say: 50oC)
you
could expect roughly 4 times longer life. That equates to around 2.2
years
of continuous operation (worst case). Assuming, of course, that the caps
have been designed and constructed correctly. Some will not last that
long.
Some will last longer. Some localised heating can occur inside amps,
which
raise the temperature of caps to very high levels. I've seen designs
where
resistors, adjacent to caps are allowed to exceed 140oC. Those caps can
easily be operated at 100oC without the amplifier being noticeably warm.
BTW: Most bi-polar caps (the type found in most speaker crossovers) have
a
rated life of around 2,000 hours. Sobering thought, huh?

More seriously, of course, is the collateral damage which can be caused
by a
failing capacitor. The gunk inside can be quite corrosive.

Moral: When not in use, turn it off.

What's about equipment with "standby" mode?

**For me, I turn stuff off, with a 'hard' switch, wherever possible.
Others may not share such an approach. For many items, with a (say) 1
Watt standby power, it's pretty much academic. Many items consume much
more power when in standby, however. They are the real culprits. They will
have premature capacitor failures and they add to the greenhouse problem.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au


Agreed. As a generalisation, anything with a mains transformer will draw a
couple of watts worth of magnetising current, less for toroidals, more for
laminated transformers. As with all generalisations, there are plenty of
exceptions, but equally, many (most) will be along these lines. Added to the
minimum magnetisation of the transformer, then there is the power drawn by
the standby circuits themselves, so overall, you can expect several watts
dissipation on standby. As an example, my Meridian active 'speakers draw 6
watts each on standby, 10 watts at idle.

Equipment with Switch-mode power supplies can be made to draw less power on
standby than conventional linear supplies. For example, my cheapie DVD
player draws 2 watts on standby.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[Eeyore]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Signal" wrote
"Trevor Wilson" wrote:

Moral: When not in use, turn it off.

What's about equipment with "standby" mode?

**For me, I turn stuff off, with a 'hard' switch, wherever possible. Others
may not share such an approach. For many items, with a (say) 1 Watt standby
power, it's pretty much academic. Many items consume much more power when in
standby, however. They are the real culprits. They will have premature
capacitor failures and they add to the greenhouse problem.

I have an NTL / Virgin Media set top box for cable TV. It doesn't even have a
'hard' power switch. Unfortunately if placed in standy it seems more prone to
crashing the firmware which means you have to detach the mains cable to
're-boot' it.

Useless POS. It seems it got worse when they reprogrammed the firmware (over the
cable connection) along with their re-branding of the company.

Graham

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:21:09 +0100, Signal wrote:

Moral: When not in use, turn it off.

What's about equipment with "standby" mode?

We're learning that even in standby mode, some equipment still uses
appreciable power. Even if you refuse to save this power on
principle, power prices are such that saving a few watts here, a few
watts there can really be worth doing. There will always be people
who delight in constructing arguments against it though :-)

[Rob[_3_]]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:21:09 +0100, Signal wrote:

Moral: When not in use, turn it off.
What's about equipment with "standby" mode?

We're learning that even in standby mode, some equipment still uses
appreciable power. Even if you refuse to save this power on
principle, power prices are such that saving a few watts here, a few
watts there can really be worth doing. There will always be people
who delight in constructing arguments against it though :-)

I recently had a look at my REL Strata 5's power consumption, having not
bothered too much about it, advertised as it is with 'power starvation
technology', and 'maximum power saving at rest'. Measures 6W at idle,
against the 4W in the spec. Not insignificant IMHO.

Rob