[Mark]

On May 29, 6:18 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
On May 28, 11:21 pm, Mark wrote:

somebody please explain why anyone cares about a polarity inversion to
both channels..
Please don't tell me that you can hear it.

Sometimes you can hear it, sometimes you can't. It depends on the
program material. But it's easy enough to get it right, at least on
your end, so that you might as well get it right. What happens on the
listener's end is anyone's guess.

Here's an example that you can hear:

http://www.recordingmag.com/files/6_...54-poltest.wav

You'll notice an apparent change in the low frequency content halfway
through when the polarity inverts.

I do hear a diff but it depends on where I am located relative to my 2
speakers.

If I use an RTA or FFT analyzer I can see that there is no real
change excpect for a brief transient during polarity switch. With the
FFT you can see the level of each individualfrequency component and
none of them change.

Any change you hear is due to phase errors in your speakers and is
totaly random.

Mark

[Arny Krueger]

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com
On May 29, 6:18 am, Mike Rivers
wrote:
On May 28, 11:21 pm, Mark wrote:

somebody please explain why anyone cares about a
polarity inversion to both channels..
Please don't tell me that you can hear it.

Sometimes you can hear it, sometimes you can't. It
depends on the program material. But it's easy enough to
get it right, at least on your end, so that you might as
well get it right. What happens on the listener's end is
anyone's guess.

Here's an example that you can hear:

http://www.recordingmag.com/files/6_...54-poltest.wav

You'll notice an apparent change in the low frequency
content halfway through when the polarity inverts.

A well-known effect that is related to how the ears work.

I do hear a diff but it depends on where I am located
relative to my 2 speakers.

That may be true, but it does not reflect on the psychoacoustic effect that
is involved.

If I use an RTA or FFT analyzer I can see that there is
no real change excpect for a brief transient during
polarity switch. With the FFT you can see the level of
each individualfrequency component and none of them
change.

Agreed.

Any change you hear is due to phase errors in your
speakers and is totaly random.

The effect is very audible with headphones - so that takes speakers and
rooms out of the equation.

[Mike Rivers]

On May 29, 9:45 am, Mark wrote:

I do hear a diff but it depends on where I am located relative to my 2
speakers.

Doesn't everything?

If I use an RTA or FFT analyzer I can see that there is no real
change excpect for a brief transient during polarity switch. With the
FFT you can see the level of each individualfrequency component and
none of them change.

So that proves that nothing has changed but the polarity, yet you hear
hear the change. Hence you an hear a difference between normal and
inverted polarity. QED

Any change you hear is due to phase errors in your speakers and is
totaly random.

Uh . . . . out of which monkey's ass did you pull this "fact?"

Have you tried it on headphones? People come up with all sorts of
excuses of why they hear what they hear. Some people have said that
they could easily hear the polarity change on their computer speakers
but not on their "hi fi" speakers so it must be because the computer
speakers aren't very good. (couldn't be that the "hi fi" speakers
aren't any good, could it?) Whatever the reason, you CAN hear the
difference, and that's all I was trying to demonstrate.

Lots of people listen to music on computer speakers or headphones.

[Mark]

If I use an RTA or FFT analyzer I can see that there is no real
change excpect for a brief transient during polarity switch. With the
FFT you can see the level of each individualfrequency component and
none of them change.

So that proves that nothing has changed but the polarity, yet you hear
hear the change. Hence you an hear a difference between normal and
inverted polarity. QED

The quick FFT test proves that there is no change except polarity in
the ELECTRICAL signal fed to the speakers. It says nothing about the
sound signal comming out of the speakers. I'll need to set up a mic
for that test and get back to you.


Any change you hear is due to phase errors in your speakers and is
totaly random.

Uh . . . . out of which monkey's ass did you pull this "fact?"


Becasue I obtained different results by moving my head. One time the
first polarity appeared to have more bass, the next time the second
polarity appeared to have more bass. The only change was my
position. In some cases there was no perceptible change. Therefore
the use of the term random.

Have you tried it on headphones?

No I will get back to you.

Mark

[Mike Rivers]

On May 29, 2:29 pm, Mark wrote:

The quick FFT test proves that there is no change except polarity in
the ELECTRICAL signal fed to the speakers. It says nothing about the
sound signal comming out of the speakers. I'll need to set up a mic
for that test and get back to you.

If your speakers don't work like speakers, all bets are off. The
assumption is that the speaker is linear at least to the extent that
one polarity makes the cone move outward from the center position and
the opposite polarity makes it move inward.

Becasue I obtained different results by moving my head. One time the
first polarity appeared to have more bass, the next time the second
polarity appeared to have more bass.

Well then don't move your head. Or better yet, disconnect one speaker.
When you add in room effects, you disturb the experiment. This is not
about stereo, it's about polarity and speaker cone motion.

Deny it if you will, but it's real.

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On May 29, 2:29 pm, Mark wrote:

The quick FFT test proves that there is no change except polarity in
the ELECTRICAL signal fed to the speakers. It says nothing about the
sound signal comming out of the speakers. I'll need to set up a mic
for that test and get back to you.

If your speakers don't work like speakers, all bets are off. The
assumption is that the speaker is linear at least to the extent that
one polarity makes the cone move outward from the center position and
the opposite polarity makes it move inward.

Becasue I obtained different results by moving my head. One time the
first polarity appeared to have more bass, the next time the second
polarity appeared to have more bass.

Well then don't move your head. Or better yet, disconnect one speaker.
When you add in room effects, you disturb the experiment. This is not
about stereo, it's about polarity and speaker cone motion.

Deny it if you will, but it's real.

Can't you fix this Vista polarity inversion thing by just turning your
computer upside down?

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Romeo Rondeau[_2_]]

hank alrich wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:

On May 29, 2:29 pm, Mark wrote:

The quick FFT test proves that there is no change except polarity in
the ELECTRICAL signal fed to the speakers. It says nothing about the
sound signal comming out of the speakers. I'll need to set up a mic
for that test and get back to you.
If your speakers don't work like speakers, all bets are off. The
assumption is that the speaker is linear at least to the extent that
one polarity makes the cone move outward from the center position and
the opposite polarity makes it move inward.

Becasue I obtained different results by moving my head. One time the
first polarity appeared to have more bass, the next time the second
polarity appeared to have more bass.
Well then don't move your head. Or better yet, disconnect one speaker.
When you add in room effects, you disturb the experiment. This is not
about stereo, it's about polarity and speaker cone motion.

Deny it if you will, but it's real.

Can't you fix this Vista polarity inversion thing by just turning your
computer upside down?


Everybody's ignoring the obvious... just break off the ground tab on the
power cable and force the plug in upside down! This will invert the
polarity, making his playback fall right back into phase! Sheesh! :-)