Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Greetings all:
Should I replace the standard four colored headshell leads that came with my turntable with better ones? How much does it matter? This is my first time posting here, and I'd appreciate any help and/or opinions! Steve |
#2
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#3
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#4
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:38:01 +0000, Serge Auckland
wrote: The material the wires are made of won't make any difference,nor will the thickness, given the tiny currents produced by a cartridge. What could make a difference is if the terminals are not gold-plated, then corrosion could affect the signal, so changing to wires with gold-plated terminals could be more reliable. If you already have gold-plated terminals, then I'd leave well enough alone, as any changes risk accidentally damaging the stylus. Or you could just slide the connectors off and on a few times once a year or so. Cheaper, and just as effective :-) |
#5
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:38:01 +0000, Serge Auckland wrote: The material the wires are made of won't make any difference,nor will the thickness, given the tiny currents produced by a cartridge. What could make a difference is if the terminals are not gold-plated, then corrosion could affect the signal, so changing to wires with gold-plated terminals could be more reliable. If you already have gold-plated terminals, then I'd leave well enough alone, as any changes risk accidentally damaging the stylus. Or you could just slide the connectors off and on a few times once a year or so. Cheaper, and just as effective :-) Yes you could, but any fiddling with a cartridge risks damage, so, for me, a one-time modest expenditure is worth it if I then don't have to touch the cartridge. Maybe I'm just clumsy, but I often end up breaking off the silly little tags on cartridge cables in pulling them off. S. |
#6
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:09:59 +0000, Serge Auckland
wrote: Or you could just slide the connectors off and on a few times once a year or so. Cheaper, and just as effective :-) Yes you could, but any fiddling with a cartridge risks damage, so, for me, a one-time modest expenditure is worth it if I then don't have to touch the cartridge. Maybe I'm just clumsy, but I often end up breaking off the silly little tags on cartridge cables in pulling them off. I'd have much more sympathy with audiophiles if they enjoyed fiddling, tweaking and maintaining half as much as they enjoyed spending money :-) |
#7
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
wrote in message
oups.com Greetings all: Should I replace the standard four colored headshell leads that came with my turntable with better ones? Only if your existing leads are damaged or otherwise intermittant. How much does it matter? Connectors and connections are the least reliable part of just about just any electronic system. But, once a reasonably good connection is made, further enhancements don't have any audible benefits. |
#8
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:09:59 +0000, Serge Auckland wrote: Or you could just slide the connectors off and on a few times once a year or so. Cheaper, and just as effective :-) Yes you could, but any fiddling with a cartridge risks damage, so, for me, a one-time modest expenditure is worth it if I then don't have to touch the cartridge. Maybe I'm just clumsy, but I often end up breaking off the silly little tags on cartridge cables in pulling them off. I'd have much more sympathy with audiophiles if they enjoyed fiddling, tweaking and maintaining half as much as they enjoyed spending money :-) Indeed, and even more if they actually enjoyed listening to music rather than the hi-fi. S. |
#9
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
wrote ...
Should I replace the standard four colored headshell leads that came with my turntable with better ones? Anyone trying to sell you "better" headshell wires is either out to take your money or hopelessly deluded. Run away as fast as possible. These are the people your mother warned you about. How much does it matter? Any "improvement" will only be in your imagination. We have to convince ourselves that things that cost more somehow sound better or we feel like fools. There is a multi-million dollar industry selling "magic" things like cables, etc. This is my first time posting here, and I'd appreciate any help and/or opinions! As others have observed, the connections (the terminals that slip onto the cartridge pins) *might* be a source of distortion and/or intermittent performance due to corrosion, but this is so unlikely that it is not worth worrying about unless it happens. You will get FAR more benefit from acquiring good speakers and placing them properly in a room with good acoustics. |
#10
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#11
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On 2007-02-01, Richard Crowley wrote:
wrote ... Should I replace the standard four colored headshell leads that came with my turntable with better ones? ... As others have observed, the connections (the terminals that slip onto the cartridge pins) *might* be a source of distortion and/or intermittent performance due to corrosion, but this is so unlikely that it is not worth worrying about unless it happens. I believe this is correct. My friends at a local radio research lab tell me that for their RF cables, which have to handle +47 dBm (50 Watts) carriers and produce less than -120 dBm passive intermodulation products (that's -167 dBc) the most important consideration is the connector, not the cable. You apparently need a large corrosion-free contact area and you need to avoid ferromagnetic materials like nickel. I guess the same should apply to good audio connections and connectors. -- John Phillips |
#12
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On 01 Feb 2007 16:31:38 GMT, John Phillips
wrote: You apparently need a large corrosion-free contact area and you need to avoid ferromagnetic materials like nickel. I guess the same should apply to good audio connections and connectors. It's not uncommon for manufacturers who peddle magic cables to find a parameter that matters in rf or other non-audio applications and pretend it makes a vital difference to a domestic hi-fi lead :-) |
#13
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
"John Phillips" wrote
in message On 2007-02-01, Richard Crowley wrote: wrote ... Should I replace the standard four colored headshell leads that came with my turntable with better ones? ... As others have observed, the connections (the terminals that slip onto the cartridge pins) *might* be a source of distortion and/or intermittent performance due to corrosion, but this is so unlikely that it is not worth worrying about unless it happens. I believe this is correct. My friends at a local radio research lab tell me that for their RF cables, which have to handle +47 dBm (50 Watts) carriers and produce less than -120 dBm passive intermodulation products (that's -167 dBc) the most important consideration is the connector, not the cable. Been true in the 50 years I've been flogging electronics. You apparently need a large corrosion-free contact area and you need to avoid ferromagnetic materials like nickel. Use of nickel could only be an issue when serious power is involved, like the application you mentioned. I guess the same should apply to good audio connections and connectors. High power RF introduces some constraints that aren't relevant to line-level audio. |
#14
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in
message On 01 Feb 2007 16:31:38 GMT, John Phillips wrote: You apparently need a large corrosion-free contact area and you need to avoid ferromagnetic materials like nickel. I guess the same should apply to good audio connections and connectors. It's not uncommon for manufacturers who peddle magic cables to find a parameter that matters in rf or other non-audio applications and pretend it makes a vital difference to a domestic hi-fi lead :-) Agreed. Nickel-free and skin effect immediately coming to mind. |
#15
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Serge Auckland wrote:
Laurence Payne wrote: On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:38:01 +0000, Serge Auckland wrote: The material the wires are made of won't make any difference,nor will the thickness, given the tiny currents produced by a cartridge. What could make a difference is if the terminals are not gold-plated, then corrosion could affect the signal, so changing to wires with gold-plated terminals could be more reliable. If you already have gold-plated terminals, then I'd leave well enough alone, as any changes risk accidentally damaging the stylus. Or you could just slide the connectors off and on a few times once a year or so. Cheaper, and just as effective :-) Yes you could, but any fiddling with a cartridge risks damage, so, for me, a one-time modest expenditure is worth it if I then don't have to touch the cartridge. Maybe I'm just clumsy, but I often end up breaking off the silly little tags on cartridge cables in pulling them off. S. Replacing the leads is a much more delicate operation than simply manipulating them occasionally. If you don't have the skill to simply tweak them, how are you going to replace them? If you're willing to pay someone the requisite shop minimum of $35-75/hour to do so--plus the price of presumably 'audiophool' replacements--you won't get much advice here (that you will accept) anyway. Go ahead and replace them if it will make you feel better. I'm sure you'll notice a big improvement...but I doubt that there will be any. jak |
#16
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Thanks for all your opinions!
I asked about this because I'm experiencing some problems with the right channel while playing LPs. Especially with quiet music, or when there isn't much going on in the right side, the sound sometimes gets significantly distorted or just drops out on that channel. I've tried a number of things, including getting my receiver checked out, fiddling with the anti-skating, and I can't figure it out. I've also recently realigned the cartridge. (So I guess what I'm saying is: any other possibilities I might be looking over?) Steve On Feb 1, 8:39 am, "Richard Crowley" wrote: wrote ... Should I replace the standard four colored headshell leads that came with my turntable with better ones? Anyone trying to sell you "better" headshell wires is either out to take your money or hopelessly deluded. Run away as fast as possible. These are the people your mother warned you about. How much does it matter? Any "improvement" will only be in your imagination. We have to convince ourselves that things that cost more somehow sound better or we feel like fools. There is a multi-million dollar industry selling "magic" things like cables, etc. This is my first time posting here, and I'd appreciate any help and/or opinions! As others have observed, the connections (the terminals that slip onto the cartridge pins) *might* be a source of distortion and/or intermittent performance due to corrosion, but this is so unlikely that it is not worth worrying about unless it happens. You will get FAR more benefit from acquiring good speakers and placing them properly in a room with good acoustics. |
#17
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#18
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Thanks. I'm bringing it in to a local guy here in Berkeley to get it
tuned tomorrow and I'll ask him to check the RCA connectors and perhaps the internal connections. By the way, it's a Harmon Kardon T55C with a cheap/old Stanton cartridge. I'll ask them to look at the latter also. Steve On Feb 1, 12:30 pm, (GregS) wrote: In article .com, wrote: Thanks for all your opinions! I asked about this because I'm experiencing some problems with the right channel while playing LPs. Especially with quiet music, or when there isn't much going on in the right side, the sound sometimes gets significantly distorted or just drops out on that channel. I've tried a number of things, including getting my receiver checked out, fiddling with the anti-skating, and I can't figure it out. I've also recently realigned the cartridge. (So I guess what I'm saying is: any other possibilities I might be looking over?) Any connection. I see, or hear this problem on RCA connections. Sometimes an internal connection inside the turntable might cause this. Even a preamp or receiver will do this because of its switches, or relays. When it starts to cut out , a large signal can bring it back in, or distorted. Removable headshells is a major problem in this area. Even after cleaning contacts, it sometimes hard to get them going. Sometimes saliva will work the best. greg |
#19
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#20
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
In article .com,
wrote: Thanks for all your opinions! I asked about this because I'm experiencing some problems with the right channel while playing LPs. Especially with quiet music, or when there isn't much going on in the right side, the sound sometimes gets significantly distorted or just drops out on that channel. I've tried a number of things, including getting my receiver checked out, fiddling with the anti-skating, and I can't figure it out. I've also recently realigned the cartridge. (So I guess what I'm saying is: any other possibilities I might be looking over?) I'd first try switching the cables coming from the turntable to the preamp. If the sound changes sides then you know it's the turntable, if not it's the receiver. If the problem is in the turntable then I'd redo the cartridge alignment, tracing force, and anti-skate adjustments. I would also look for signs that the tone arm is binding (one common problem with systems have that automatic shut-off is for the shut-off mechanism to start binding. Problens with cartridges tend to appear at the inner grooves where the velocity is less, and often occur at 33 1/3 RPM. It is also time to look at the stylus to make sure it's not damaged or badly worn. My guess is that you have a problem with the receiver, since I have similar problems with my NAD 7400 receiver. When you are setting up the turntable remember that a little too much tracking force is a lot less damaging that too little. Mike Squires |
#21
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Depending on your dexterity and instrumentation, turntable/cartridge
diagnosis is relatively straight forward. The problem is in the headshell, at the connection between the headshell and the arm, or in the turntable and signal leads. For removable headshells, I'll pull the headshell, connect the turntable for play (at VERY LOW VOLUME) and touch the, now exposed, bare terminals on the arm with a metal rod. There are four contacts, two are ground and two are not. When you touch the ungrounded terminals there should be a pronounced hum in the speakers (you did turn down the volume?). If one channel hums when you touch and the other doesn't, there is a bad connection between that point and the amplifier. Typically, the bad connection is a break in the center wire at the amplifier end of the signal cable near the strain relief. Some turntables have vulnerable points inside. In very unfortunate cases there will be a problem inside the arm. If you go inside the turntable, take care not to damage the hair thin wires from inside the tonearm. At this point you have divided the problem in half (in terms of time that you'll spend fixing things). If the problem is in the turntable or wiring, go there. I have an Ohmmeter. At this point I'll measure resistance at the headshell contacts. A healthy magnetic cartridge should measure about 1000 Ohms, depending on its accuracy and the cartridge. Anything in the 600 - 2000 Ohm range is probably OK as long as both channels are similar. (if one channel is 600 and the other is 800, don't worry -- worry if the other channel is 2000) If you don't have an Ohmmeter and you have enough dexterity to swap channels at the back of the cartridge, this is a good test too. If the problem moves after the swap, the problem is with the cartridge, if not, the wires and headshell contacts are the answer. I've seen lots of trouble with the headshell-to-arm contacts. Usually I can see the problem, which is usually oxidation. I'll use an ink eraser, followed by a solvent such as denatured alcohol to clean the contacts. Clean contacts should be bright and shinny. Many of these contacts are silver plated and become covered with a black oxide. After you've removed the black oxide, stop cleaning. The silver coating is very thin and if you remove that too, that's bad. Cleaning these contacts requires some dexterity too. ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- |
#22
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Barry Mann wrote:
Depending on your dexterity and instrumentation, turntable/cartridge diagnosis is relatively straight forward. The problem is in the headshell, at the connection between the headshell and the arm, or in the turntable and signal leads. For removable headshells, I'll pull the headshell, connect the turntable for play (at VERY LOW VOLUME) and touch the, now exposed, bare terminals on the arm with a metal rod. There are four contacts, two are ground and two are not. When you touch the ungrounded terminals there should be a pronounced hum in the speakers (you did turn down the volume?). If one channel hums when you touch and the other doesn't, there is a bad connection between that point and the amplifier. Typically, the bad connection is a break in the center wire at the amplifier end of the signal cable near the strain relief. Some turntables have vulnerable points inside. In very unfortunate cases there will be a problem inside the arm. If you go inside the turntable, take care not to damage the hair thin wires from inside the tonearm. At this point you have divided the problem in half (in terms of time that you'll spend fixing things). If the problem is in the turntable or wiring, go there. I have an Ohmmeter. At this point I'll measure resistance at the headshell contacts. A healthy magnetic cartridge should measure about 1000 Ohms, depending on its accuracy and the cartridge. Anything in the 600 - 2000 Ohm range is probably OK as long as both channels are similar. (if one channel is 600 and the other is 800, don't worry -- worry if the other channel is 2000) If you don't have an Ohmmeter and you have enough dexterity to swap channels at the back of the cartridge, this is a good test too. If the problem moves after the swap, the problem is with the cartridge, if not, the wires and headshell contacts are the answer. I've seen lots of trouble with the headshell-to-arm contacts. Usually I can see the problem, which is usually oxidation. I'll use an ink eraser, followed by a solvent such as denatured alcohol to clean the contacts. Clean contacts should be bright and shinny. Many of these contacts are silver plated and become covered with a black oxide. After you've removed the black oxide, stop cleaning. The silver coating is very thin and if you remove that too, that's bad. Cleaning these contacts requires some dexterity too. ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Good synopsis. I'd add that locking surgical tweezers (hemostats?) are extremely helpful for removing wires from the back of cartridge with no damage. Grab them on the flat part where the wire is attached. jak jakk |
#23
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
In SPUxh.884$%e3.214@bigfe9, on 02/06/07
at 12:00 AM, jakdedert said: Barry Mann wrote: Depending on your dexterity [ ... ] Good synopsis. I'd add that locking surgical tweezers (hemostats?) are extremely helpful for removing wires from the back of cartridge with no damage. Grab them on the flat part where the wire is attached. jak Good point about where to grab -- It's not a good idea to tug directly on the wire. Tools are fascinating. To some extent it's the tools that you are familiar with. I've never been a fan of hemostats. I have them and I know that many use them for just about everything, but I don't like them. Typically, they grab too hard (when locked) and damage the surface. Further, they are the wrong angle for my fine control and I can't release them without moving the tip (but practice could cure this). For grab and hold, they are OK if I don't care about the surface, but I always do care. Electricians hate to solder, they'll do just about anything to avoid it. I always have an iron close by. Mechanics use screwdrivers, wrenches and hose clamps. Welders can't fix anything any other way. I worked with a guy who used double back masking tape for everything -- even in vacuum chambers (not a great idea). I use a multitude of different screwdrivers, some of them custom ground. Anyone who works with me must get used to the idea of using the correct screwdriver. (both the screws and the screwdrivers last many times longer if you match them correctly.) ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- |
#25
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Barry Mann wrote:
In SPUxh.884$%e3.214@bigfe9, on 02/06/07 at 12:00 AM, jakdedert said: Barry Mann wrote: Depending on your dexterity [ ... ] Good synopsis. I'd add that locking surgical tweezers (hemostats?) are extremely helpful for removing wires from the back of cartridge with no damage. Grab them on the flat part where the wire is attached. jak Good point about where to grab -- It's not a good idea to tug directly on the wire. Nor is it good to squeeze the part which covers the pin. The harder you squeeze, the 'stucker' it gets. Tools are fascinating. To some extent it's the tools that you are familiar with. To be sure...both counts. I've never been a fan of hemostats. I have them and I know that many use them for just about everything, but I don't like them. Typically, they grab too hard (when locked) and damage the surface. Further, they are the wrong angle for my fine control and I can't release them without moving the tip (but practice could cure this). For grab and hold, they are OK if I don't care about the surface, but I always do care. I don't use them for everything, but for most delicate holding/manipulating tasks, they're superior to pliers because one can manipulate without having to simultaneously apply pressure. Angle is only an issue if you don't have an assortment. They come in various from straight to almost 90 degrees. The 'release' can be an issue which indeed takes practice. As far as the surface, there are various jaw styles from smooth to toothed. They are designed to grasp living tissue, after all. jak Electricians hate to solder, they'll do just about anything to avoid it. I always have an iron close by. Mechanics use screwdrivers, wrenches and hose clamps. Welders can't fix anything any other way. I worked with a guy who used double back masking tape for everything -- even in vacuum chambers (not a great idea). I use a multitude of different screwdrivers, some of them custom ground. Anyone who works with me must get used to the idea of using the correct screwdriver. (both the screws and the screwdrivers last many times longer if you match them correctly.) ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- |
#26
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#27
![]()
Posted to rec.audio.tech
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
GregS wrote:
In article .com, wrote: Thanks for all your opinions! I asked about this because I'm experiencing some problems with the right channel while playing LPs. Especially with quiet music, or when there isn't much going on in the right side, the sound sometimes gets significantly distorted or just drops out on that channel. I've tried a number of things, including getting my receiver checked out, fiddling with the anti-skating, and I can't figure it out. I've also recently realigned the cartridge. (So I guess what I'm saying is: any other possibilities I might be looking over?) Any connection. I see, or hear this problem on RCA connections. Sometimes an internal connection inside the turntable might cause this. Even a preamp or receiver will do this because of its switches, or relays. When it starts to cut out , a large signal can bring it back in, or distorted. Removable headshells is a major problem in this area. Even after cleaning contacts, it sometimes hard to get them going. Sometimes saliva will work the best. greg Headshell contacts would be my first guess, but there's also the mute switch, which kicks in when the arm lifts on semi-autos. Some TT's have RCA connections on the inside where the cable connects. Twisting every RCA cable will often correct such problems. jak On Feb 1, 8:39 am, "Richard Crowley" wrote: wrote ... Should I replace the standard four colored headshell leads that came with my turntable with better ones? Anyone trying to sell you "better" headshell wires is either out to take your money or hopelessly deluded. Run away as fast as possible. These are the people your mother warned you about. How much does it matter? Any "improvement" will only be in your imagination. We have to convince ourselves that things that cost more somehow sound better or we feel like fools. There is a multi-million dollar industry selling "magic" things like cables, etc. This is my first time posting here, and I'd appreciate any help and/or opinions! As others have observed, the connections (the terminals that slip onto the cartridge pins) *might* be a source of distortion and/or intermittent performance due to corrosion, but this is so unlikely that it is not worth worrying about unless it happens. You will get FAR more benefit from acquiring good speakers and placing them properly in a room with good acoustics. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Forum | |||
which color leads on multimeter | Vacuum Tubes | |||
WANTED AR xa headshell | Pro Audio | |||
WTB: EMT Headshell + riaa board | Marketplace | |||
WTB: Lustre Universal Headshell w/ azimith adjustment screw | Marketplace | |||
Why is the AR XA headshell made of plastic? | Audio Opinions |